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Dead Voice

Dead Voice

2008-10-30 by George

Thanks again everyone for all your help.  

Today I tried to isolate my dead voice problem by using the 
individual outputs. 

When plugged in the individual outs, the sound would play only once  
every 8 key attacks. Is this normal with the E2?

I was able to isolate the bad voice to channel 7, which instead of 
the sound, would play only a barely audible noisy "swoosh".

I took the machine apart, removed the PSU and located the SSM2045's. 
I cleaned them with cotton swabs and isopropyl alcohol and switched 
them out with channel 8, but the problem persisted on channel 7. Then 
I decided to clean/switch out the S3528 chip as well, but channel 7 
still doesn't play.

I haven't cleaned/ reseated all ICs as ElmBeatz recommended, which 
will probably be the next thing I want to try.

I was hoping it would be one of those chips. What else can cause a 
dead voice? Thanks. (Sorry for my goofy English - foreigners..lol)

George

Re: Dead Voice

2008-10-30 by elmbeatz

"""When plugged in the individual outs, the sound would play only once  
every 8 key attacks. Is this normal with the E2?"""

Absolutely - unless you ASSIGN your Sounds to the equivalent channel.
(if you want to test output channel 1 -> assign the voices to channel
1, same with the other channels...) 

"""I was able to isolate the bad voice to channel 7, which instead of 
the sound, would play only a barely audible noisy "swoosh"."""

Good!, so now you got the "bad" channel.

I'm wondering, too, why channel 7 still gives bad results although you
swapped the SSM with channel 8...

What I would do FIRST next, is to clean and reseat ALL chips belonging
to CHANNEL 7 on the OUTPUT board.
Then check again.

If the problem still exists afterwards, then I would go on and do the
same with all chips on the digital board (which is HORROR and takes
you a day :(

Hope you'll get it fixed...
Greetz,
Elm.

Re: Dead Voice

2008-10-30 by hoschi1103

This sounds like the DAC running empty. If, after cleaning, you still
have this faint noise, remove the 6072 (IC 55 if counting from 1 to 8)
and swap it with another channel. If no success, try swapping IC 31
(74HCT273 flip-flop/buffer).

Greetings,
Hoschi
   

--- In emulatorII-list@yahoogroups.com, "George" <trickstar303@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Thanks again everyone for all your help.  
> 
> Today I tried to isolate my dead voice problem by using the 
> individual outputs. 
> 
> When plugged in the individual outs, the sound would play only once  
> every 8 key attacks. Is this normal with the E2?
> 
> I was able to isolate the bad voice to channel 7, which instead of 
> the sound, would play only a barely audible noisy "swoosh".
> 
> I took the machine apart, removed the PSU and located the SSM2045's. 
> I cleaned them with cotton swabs and isopropyl alcohol and switched 
> them out with channel 8, but the problem persisted on channel 7. Then 
> I decided to clean/switch out the S3528 chip as well, but channel 7 
> still doesn't play.
> 
> I haven't cleaned/ reseated all ICs as ElmBeatz recommended, which 
> will probably be the next thing I want to try.
> 
> I was hoping it would be one of those chips. What else can cause a 
> dead voice? Thanks. (Sorry for my goofy English - foreigners..lol)
> 
> George
>

Re: Dead Voice

2008-11-05 by George

Hi Guys,

I managed to get her booting again and play the sounds. =)

My instinct was telling me that it must have been related to the 
reseating of the digital board ICs because it was working prior to my 
chip cleaning.  So I removed and reseated them 
all and... voila!! 

However, the same voice problem on channel 7 still persists.  I also 
tried to swap IC31 and IC55. No difference.

Does anyone know what else it could be? It seems like I swapped all 
relevant chips on channel 7 with no results...

Thanks.

George





--- In emulatorII-list@yahoogroups.com, "hoschi1103" <totti@...> 
wrote:
>
> This sounds like the DAC running empty. If, after cleaning, you 
still
> have this faint noise, remove the 6072 (IC 55 if counting from 1 to 
8)
> and swap it with another channel. If no success, try swapping IC 31
> (74HCT273 flip-flop/buffer).
> 
> Greetings,
> Hoschi
>    
> 
> --- In emulatorII-list@yahoogroups.com, "George" <trickstar303@> 
wrote:
> >
> > Thanks again everyone for all your help.  
> > 
> > Today I tried to isolate my dead voice problem by using the 
> > individual outputs. 
> > 
> > When plugged in the individual outs, the sound would play only 
once  
> > every 8 key attacks. Is this normal with the E2?
> > 
> > I was able to isolate the bad voice to channel 7, which instead 
of 
> > the sound, would play only a barely audible noisy "swoosh".
> > 
> > I took the machine apart, removed the PSU and located the 
SSM2045's. 
> > I cleaned them with cotton swabs and isopropyl alcohol and 
switched 
> > them out with channel 8, but the problem persisted on channel 7. 
Then 
> > I decided to clean/switch out the S3528 chip as well, but channel 
7 
> > still doesn't play.
> > 
> > I haven't cleaned/ reseated all ICs as ElmBeatz recommended, 
which 
> > will probably be the next thing I want to try.
> > 
> > I was hoping it would be one of those chips. What else can cause 
a
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > dead voice? Thanks. (Sorry for my goofy English - foreigners..lol)
> > 
> > George
> >
>

Re: Dead Voice

2008-11-05 by George

Stephen, 

I don't have a "noise" problem per se.  It's more of a muted voice 
problem.  Nothing at all plays on channel 7. You have to listen in 
very, very close and instead of the sound you'll hear an VERY 
soft "krkrk" sound, but it's almost inaudible.

Do you still think replacing the ceramic caps will make a difference? 
Are they hard to replace?  

George

--- In emulatorII-list@yahoogroups.com, sm papke <mothrecords@...> 
wrote:
>
> Hey, that's some good news! I would try replacing the little 
ceramic caps associated with channel 7 if it still giving noise 
issues, as the chip is obviously fine if you swap and the sound does 
not follow. It is surely component a problem on that particular 
channel from the sounds of it.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Cheers
> 
> 
> --- On Wed, 11/5/08, George <trickstar303@...> wrote:
> 
> > From: George <trickstar303@...>
> > Subject: [emulatorII-list] Re: Dead Voice
> > To: emulatorII-list@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Wednesday, November 5, 2008, 11:03 AM
> > Hi Guys,
> > 
> > I managed to get her booting again and play the sounds. =)
> > 
> > My instinct was telling me that it must have been related
> > to the 
> > reseating of the digital board ICs because it was working
> > prior to my 
> > chip cleaning.  So I removed and reseated them 
> > all and... voila!! 
> > 
> > However, the same voice problem on channel 7 still
> > persists.  I also 
> > tried to swap IC31 and IC55. No difference.
> > 
> > Does anyone know what else it could be? It seems like I
> > swapped all 
> > relevant chips on channel 7 with no results...
> > 
> > Thanks.
> > 
> > George
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In emulatorII-list@yahoogroups.com,
> > "hoschi1103" <totti@> 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > This sounds like the DAC running empty. If, after
> > cleaning, you 
> > still
> > > have this faint noise, remove the 6072 (IC 55 if
> > counting from 1 to 
> > 8)
> > > and swap it with another channel. If no success, try
> > swapping IC 31
> > > (74HCT273 flip-flop/buffer).
> > > 
> > > Greetings,
> > > Hoschi
> > >    
> > > 
> > > --- In emulatorII-list@yahoogroups.com,
> > "George" <trickstar303@> 
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Thanks again everyone for all your help.  
> > > > 
> > > > Today I tried to isolate my dead voice problem by
> > using the 
> > > > individual outputs. 
> > > > 
> > > > When plugged in the individual outs, the sound
> > would play only 
> > once  
> > > > every 8 key attacks. Is this normal with the E2?
> > > > 
> > > > I was able to isolate the bad voice to channel 7,
> > which instead 
> > of 
> > > > the sound, would play only a barely audible noisy
> > "swoosh".
> > > > 
> > > > I took the machine apart, removed the PSU and
> > located the 
> > SSM2045's. 
> > > > I cleaned them with cotton swabs and isopropyl
> > alcohol and 
> > switched 
> > > > them out with channel 8, but the problem
> > persisted on channel 7. 
> > Then 
> > > > I decided to clean/switch out the S3528 chip as
> > well, but channel 
> > 7 
> > > > still doesn't play.
> > > > 
> > > > I haven't cleaned/ reseated all ICs as
> > ElmBeatz recommended, 
> > which 
> > > > will probably be the next thing I want to try.
> > > > 
> > > > I was hoping it would be one of those chips. What
> > else can cause 
> > a 
> > > > dead voice? Thanks. (Sorry for my goofy English -
> > foreigners..lol)
> > > > 
> > > > George
> > > >
> > >
>

Re: Dead Voice

2008-11-06 by George

Stephen-

There is no musical tone audible underneath the staticy noise. It's 
practically dead. As a matter of fact I shouldn't have even mentioned 
that sound because is almost inaudible and probably hard to record 
for diagnostic purposes. But the idea is great. Maybe we should 
establish such a MP3 folder...

What are the specs on the caps? And how many are on each channel? Any 
tips on the procedure? My soldering iron is a cheap one and I don't 
think I ever soldered stuff on a circuit board. Am afraid of melting 
the board or that the heat will mess up other components? I suppose I 
could do it, but maybe you have a few tips... Any help appreciated.

George

--- In emulatorII-list@yahoogroups.com, sm papke <mothrecords@...> 
wrote:
>
> Hey George, can you still hear your sample underneath the krkrkk 
sound?  This problem could ultimately lead back to PSU in the end 
depending on the type of sound. I would say that it sure wouldn't 
hurt to change the ceramic caps associated with channel 7, and it's 
pretty simple to do. It is also going to cost you pocket change to 
try. I once had a bad mic-pre on one of my mixing consoles that was 
totally dead. Changing the small ceramic cap on the mic-input fixed 
it good as new, so maybe this is true on the EII output board? Send 
over an MP3 of the sounds you are hearing if you have time, or post 
it in the files..or maybe even a new folder for help with repairs by 
using sound files (or the best of) to help diagnose some common 
issues? Do you see anything out of the ordinary with the components 
on ch.7 vs. any of the other channels? maybe some browning/burn marks 
of parts or shotty looking solder joints? maybe even a chipped 
resistor? keep diging!
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Cheers
> 
> 
> --- On Wed, 11/5/08, George <trickstar303@...> wrote:
> 
> > From: George <trickstar303@...>
> > Subject: [emulatorII-list] Re: Dead Voice
> > To: emulatorII-list@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Wednesday, November 5, 2008, 2:34 PM
> > Stephen, 
> > 
> > I don't have a "noise" problem per se. 
> > It's more of a muted voice 
> > problem.  Nothing at all plays on channel 7. You have to
> > listen in 
> > very, very close and instead of the sound you'll hear
> > an VERY 
> > soft "krkrk" sound, but it's almost
> > inaudible.
> > 
> > Do you still think replacing the ceramic caps will make a
> > difference? 
> > Are they hard to replace?  
> > 
> > George
> > 
> > --- In emulatorII-list@yahoogroups.com, sm papke
> > <mothrecords@> 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hey, that's some good news! I would try replacing
> > the little 
> > ceramic caps associated with channel 7 if it still giving
> > noise 
> > issues, as the chip is obviously fine if you swap and the
> > sound does 
> > not follow. It is surely component a problem on that
> > particular 
> > channel from the sounds of it. 
> > > Cheers
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- On Wed, 11/5/08, George <trickstar303@>
> > wrote:
> > > 
> > > > From: George <trickstar303@>
> > > > Subject: [emulatorII-list] Re: Dead Voice
> > > > To: emulatorII-list@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Date: Wednesday, November 5, 2008, 11:03 AM
> > > > Hi Guys,
> > > > 
> > > > I managed to get her booting again and play the
> > sounds. =)
> > > > 
> > > > My instinct was telling me that it must have been
> > related
> > > > to the 
> > > > reseating of the digital board ICs because it was
> > working
> > > > prior to my 
> > > > chip cleaning.  So I removed and reseated them 
> > > > all and... voila!! 
> > > > 
> > > > However, the same voice problem on channel 7
> > still
> > > > persists.  I also 
> > > > tried to swap IC31 and IC55. No difference.
> > > > 
> > > > Does anyone know what else it could be? It seems
> > like I
> > > > swapped all 
> > > > relevant chips on channel 7 with no results...
> > > > 
> > > > Thanks.
> > > > 
> > > > George
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > --- In emulatorII-list@yahoogroups.com,
> > > > "hoschi1103" <totti@> 
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > This sounds like the DAC running empty. If,
> > after
> > > > cleaning, you 
> > > > still
> > > > > have this faint noise, remove the 6072 (IC
> > 55 if
> > > > counting from 1 to 
> > > > 8)
> > > > > and swap it with another channel. If no
> > success, try
> > > > swapping IC 31
> > > > > (74HCT273 flip-flop/buffer).
> > > > > 
> > > > > Greetings,
> > > > > Hoschi
> > > > >    
> > > > > 
> > > > > --- In emulatorII-list@yahoogroups.com,
> > > > "George" <trickstar303@> 
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks again everyone for all your
> > help.  
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Today I tried to isolate my dead voice
> > problem by
> > > > using the 
> > > > > > individual outputs. 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > When plugged in the individual outs,
> > the sound
> > > > would play only 
> > > > once  
> > > > > > every 8 key attacks. Is this normal
> > with the E2?
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > I was able to isolate the bad voice to
> > channel 7,
> > > > which instead 
> > > > of 
> > > > > > the sound, would play only a barely
> > audible noisy
> > > > "swoosh".
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > I took the machine apart, removed the
> > PSU and
> > > > located the 
> > > > SSM2045's. 
> > > > > > I cleaned them with cotton swabs and
> > isopropyl
> > > > alcohol and 
> > > > switched 
> > > > > > them out with channel 8, but the
> > problem
> > > > persisted on channel 7. 
> > > > Then 
> > > > > > I decided to clean/switch out the S3528
> > chip as
> > > > well, but channel 
> > > > 7 
> > > > > > still doesn't play.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > I haven't cleaned/ reseated all ICs
> > as
> > > > ElmBeatz recommended, 
> > > > which 
> > > > > > will probably be the next thing I want
> > to try.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > I was hoping it would be one of those
> > chips. What
> > > > else can cause 
> > > > a 
> > > > > > dead voice? Thanks. (Sorry for my goofy
> > English -
> > > > foreigners..lol)
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > George
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
>

Re: Dead Voice

2008-11-06 by hexafuzz

--- In emulatorII-list@yahoogroups.com, "George" <trickstar303@...> wrote:
>
> Maybe we should establish such a MP3 folder...

There is a "Troubleshooting-Debugging" folder within the Sound Bytes
folder for these type of files. Elmbeatz was the first to post such a
file long ago. 

To maximize available space in the file section, please try to utilize
a smaller than MP3 format like Windows Media or RealAudio for
troubleshooting files. If using MP3, encode at 64k Mono.

Move to quarantaine

This moves the raw source file on disk only. The archive index is not changed automatically, so you still need to run a manual refresh afterward.