EXS 24 Logic Sampler Users Group

Hi,

As a relatively new EXS24 user, I'm impressed with Logic's built-in sounds - up to a point. However the sax, for instance, gets a bit biting at times.... So I'm looking for guidance about what improvements I can expect in third-party libraries (if any); and also what sort of CPU hit that might entail.

Specifically:

1. Does sound quality rise a lot with number of velocity layers recorded? Suppose I were to hear back-to-back, in solo violin:

   a) Logic built-in with 1 layer
   b) ProSamples Solo Strings with 2 layers
   c) Vienna Library with (I think) 4 layers.

Would the sound be noticeably improved in each step of a) b) c)?  My guess is yes, but can anyone who has made the comparisons report?

2. CPU hogging. 

a) Does having more samples available cause less CPU drain? Put the other way, if I had only one note sampled and asked the CPU to produce all the notes from it, would that cause more strain on the CPU than having every note sampled? Or is it the other way around (or something else).

b) Layers. I assume that having 2 or 4 layers hogs CPU. Is this a major change? From one layer? Does it take near 2X or 4X the CPU of one layer?

Thanks.....

steven rowat


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web site: <http://www.rowatworks.com>
mailto:sc@...

sc@... wrote:

>
> Hi,
>
> As a relatively new EXS24 user, I'm impressed with Logic's built-in 
> sounds - up to a point. However the sax, for instance, gets a bit 
> biting at times.... So I'm looking for guidance about what 
> improvements I can expect in third-party libraries (if any); and also 
> what sort of CPU hit that might entail.
>
> Specifically:
>
> 1. Does sound quality rise a lot with number of velocity layers 
> recorded? Suppose I were to hear back-to-back, in solo violin:
>
>    a) Logic built-in with 1 layer
>    b) ProSamples Solo Strings with 2 layers
>    c) Vienna Library with (I think) 4 layers.
>
> Would the sound be noticeably improved in each step of a) b) c)?  My 
> guess is yes, but can anyone who has made the comparisons report?
>
> 2. CPU hogging.
>
> a) Does having more samples available cause less CPU drain? Put the 
> other way, if I had only one note sampled and asked the CPU to produce 
> all the notes from it, would that cause more strain on the CPU than 
> having every note sampled? Or is it the other way around (or something 
> else).
>
> b) Layers. I assume that having 2 or 4 layers hogs CPU. Is this a 
> major change? From one layer? Does it take near 2X or 4X the CPU of 
> one layer?
>
> Thanks.....
>
> steven rowat
>
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> web site: <http://www.rowatworks.com>
> mailto:sc@...

steve,

The hit to your cpu will probably be less of an issue than disk speed 
and/or ram, depending on whether you are streaming samples from disk or 
doing it the 'old fashioned way'

I can't give you a good assessment of orchestral/acoustic libraries vs. 
logic's built-in samples because, honestly, I don't really use either 
(my music just doesn't incorporate those timbres, most of my exs 
samples are timbres I've made in soundhack or some synth or just 
recording my finger rubbing a bare TRS cable going through some 
effects)

however, I am a long time user of samplers, which I imagine you are 
too, so I will remind you that the 'sound quality' improvement of any 
sampler patch that relies on a lot of velocity switching of layers 
(like the vsl) is going to depend on how expressively it is played

are you going to play your midi analude through some vienna strings?

paul

sc@... wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> As a relatively new EXS24 user, I'm impressed with Logic's built-in
> sounds - up to a point. However the sax, for instance, gets a bit
> biting at times.... So I'm looking for guidance about what
> improvements I can expect in third-party libraries (if any); and also
> what sort of CPU hit that might entail.
> 
> Specifically:
> 
> 1. Does sound quality rise a lot with number of velocity layers
> recorded? Suppose I were to hear back-to-back, in solo violin:
> 
> a) Logic built-in with 1 layer b) ProSamples Solo Strings with 2
> layers c) Vienna Library with (I think) 4 layers.
> 
> Would the sound be noticeably improved in each step of a) b) c)?  My
> guess is yes, but can anyone who has made the comparisons report?
> 
Sound Quality is not so much the point as the realism you get with
velocity layers. It's impossible to compare the above as the raw samples
are so different. I would prefer a really nicely recorded sample with
one or two layers to a badly recorded sample on lots of layers.

Using one layer does not degrade the sound, it just plays one sample 
louder or quieter depending on velocity. So a violin might be sampled at 
mf, when playing with low velocity you hear a violin that was played at 
mf but quieter, instead of a violin that was played quietly in the first 
place - which obviously sounds more like a violin played quietly to the 
trained ear. Very often people won't actually know the difference unless 
they are a violinist, a trained musician or expert.

The realism is often more useful for the player than the listener. When 
I hire session piano players, they usually like a sampled piano that 
sounds and feels more like a real one while they are playing. I may then 
  change that sound to one I like as a producer, and it may not be as 
realistic or nice to play, it just happens to be the sound I am after 
for that track.

BTW, it is extremely difficult to get good saxophone samples (ie that 
don't sound like an accordion). I'm currently working on creating a 
library of  saxophones that I am playing, and it's an extremely 
difficult instrument to sample plus there are so many different types of 
tone variations.

-- 
Pete Thomas
www.petethomas.co.uk
- Free Logic Icons, Environments and EXS Instruments

From: sc@...

>1. Does sound quality rise a lot with number of velocity layers recorded?

All things being equal, yes, but as an isolated spec it's as 
meaningless as the size.

The only way to judge libraries is to fondle them.
-- 
Nick Batzdorf - editor
Virtual Instruments magazine
(the world of softsynths and samplers)
www.Virtualinstrumentsmag.com
1-877 VImagzn (846-2496), 818/905-9101, cell 590-9101

Hi, 

Much thanks to all who gave me feedback on sample quality. I guess the only thing to do is bite the bullet and buy some.

And to answer Paul's question:

>are you going to play your midi analude through some vienna strings?

I have to say that I don't know - I had thought strings would work nicely with the analude, but so far (using Logic's built-in strings) they don't do very well on the glide notes. The ones that work really well are the solo horns - flute, sax. The glides sound just like bent horn notes. So I'm looking forward to other horns - trumpet, trombone, oboe. And who knows, maybe other string samples will work better. Then there are the weird ones - for instance, I'm  hopeful about hurdy gurdy, which as I recall from seeing one live has a gliding tone. 

Thanks again for the feedback.

steven rowat

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
web site: <http://www.rowatworks.com>
mailto:sc@...