Re: Hooking up with another preamp?
2001-09-13 by Deathchicken
Hey Lists/Scott,
You ready for the novel? This
isn't all relevant to the topic but in an effort to ( as Queensryche put it )
'Break the Silence' I figured I'd throw this out.
Scott, if I were you I'd
experiment with every option of connecting your ProGAP and your 2101. Over
the years I have tried some crazy shit with my 2101 and other preamps and
FX units. For a while I had a Boss Metal Zone in the FX loop of the 2101 running
on the right channel and the 2101's preamp running on the left. This is kind of
like the 2120/2112's parallel distortions theory except I had each one
auto-panning separately... Noise gating was a pain in the ass and the
amount of cables was dizzying... It did sound sweet though. I've done all sorts
of stuff like taking the left main out of the 2101 to the right return for
'extra processing' and back thru the right side of the 2101 and out of the right
main to the amp. I've plugged my guitar into the right return for some 'pre
preamp EQ' out the right main out into the rear input thru the left side of the
2101 for all the usual stuff and out the left main to the amp. If it's possible
I tried it. I usually ended up thinking "That was the biggest waste of 3
hours..." None of these hair-brained schemes did much good really. I did learn
alot about how FX and routing effected the outcome though! In my defense
John Petrucci uses a Triaxis and various processing for stereo and a Mesa
Heartbreaker head for his dry/center channel. Talk about money to burn. Anyway,
enough about my forays into patching madness...
I think my first instinct would
be to plug into the ProGAP with it's main out(s) going into the 2101 Returns and
from the 2101 Main outs to the Marshall 9200. The main drawback to this is that
you'd never have a true FX bypass. If you're not concerned with getting 'pure
tone' this won't matter though. ;I recently bought a Mesa Boogie Triaxis and
I was using it with my 2101 a few different ways as you can imagine. I tried
Triaxis mains to the 2101 Returns and 2101 Main outs to my Mesa 2:Ninety. This
was ok but the 'tone' wasn't very 'pure'. I ended up putting the 2101 in the
loop of the Triaxis. This gives me true FX bypass and noticeably better tone (
especially since the FX loop is tube driven ). I
used the 2101 for a preamp and FX for years but I was never truly happy with my
tone. I had the right gain and EQ and crunch and all that but the 'tone' wasn't
there. I fell in love with the Triaxis years ago when they first came out. I
guess my long brewing subconscious dissatisfaction with my 2101 stemmed from
that encounter with the Triaxis. After I played the Triaxis ( with a brand new
Parker Fly Deluxe no less thru a Mesa DC-10 2x12 combo ) my 'tone search' was
based on getting that sound again. I can tell an obvious difference in the tone
when I switch from patches not using the 2101 in the loop of the Tri. The 2101
adds some negative qualities to the wonderful sounds of the Tri. The degradation
isn't appalling and I'll still use the 2101 sparingly for FX ( I've never used
much FX processing ever ). The most obvious thing is that the high end gets
harsh with the 2101 in the chain. Also some of the warmth is lost. I think live
this would go un-noticed to the crowd but I'd notice... I definitely wouldn't
record with the 2101 'live in the studio' but then I'm using a Digitech
Genesis3 to record with PC direct at home. If I went to a studio I'd track dry
and use a Lexicon or TC something... especially if I'm paying $200 an hour to
record!!!
Throughout the years I have
played with numerous preamps/processors. The Marshall JMP-1, although it
had a descent sound, I didn't think it was as diverse as the Tri. The Marshall
seemed to me to be made for semi-clean to 'modern' gain ala JCM 900. It didn't
strike as a real pristine preamp but then Marshalls are not notorious for clean
tones like Fender amps were back in the day. The Triaxis actually lives up to
the claims of Fender Clean and Triple Recto gain. Obviously it helps having a
2:ninety with 6L6 tubes ( less midrange ) and the Switch-Trak features like Half
Drive, Deep and Modern. The thing that impressed me most about the Tri is the
clean tones I can get. I use EMG pickups which aren't notorious for 'sparkling
clean vintage glassy tones' but with the SA's in the neck and middle ( 85 in the
bridge ) I get some truly inspiring clean tones. Being a "Metal Head" ( you may
notice I sign some of my posts Metal Terrorist ) I use clean tones sparingly but
I think this is because I've never had an amp that did them well. I personally
think the 2101's clean tube sounds are pretty weak in comparison. As for gain...
the Triaxis whoops ass. This may seem dumb to alot of people but being a
'gearjunkie' ( My ebay ID. Go figure... ) I'm starting to buy some old
'all-in-wonders' like the ART SGX-2000 just to play with. Like the ProGAP
they're dated and obsolete compared to things like the TC G-Force and the
Lexicon MPX-G2 but they have their own unique character and make really cool
night-lights! Generally, I think you get what you pay for in music
gear. I know a guy with JB Player guitar ( pink no-less! ), a Boss
ME-? ( ME-8 I think ) and a Crate half stack and he had an awesome
guitar sound. He used FX alot too. I guess it's all in how you use it. Afterall,
I used to love Max Cavelara's sound in Sepultura when he used an ADA MP-1 (
which I never successfully got a good sound out of ) and an ART DRX-2100
processor.
I remember the Rocktron
Chameleon when it came out claiming to digitally replicate tube sounds and I
remember hating it. I had an ART SGX-2000 once too and it was more of a novelty
item to me. It had tons of great features but it just didn't sound very good. It
had so many knobs, switches, buttons, sliders and jacks it was ridiculous! A
fine museum piece with the emphasis on 'piece'... I haven't heard the G-Force (
it has no preamp anyway ) or the MPX-G2 but I would like to think that 10 years
later someone can make an all-in-one box with good tone and great effects.
Especially for $1200+... I'd check them out if any of the loser guitar stores
in Columbus would stock one. I've heard lots of good things about the Boss
VF-1 and the GP-100 ( Roland? ) too. I always thought the SE-50/SE-70 were
really cool but I can't say I have EVER seen anyone using one. They must sound
like shit... I can only hope Digitech makes a rack version of their GNX-3 that
thing has more shit in it then there is as the price reflects!
Well, back to the topic... I
love Mesa/Boogie stuff as you can tell and I have always been fond of Digitech
too but I don't think any certain brand or model of gear is the right piece for
everyone. The fact that there is a Marshall, Soldano, Crate, Peavey and
Mesa/Boogie are testament to this. An acquaintance of mine spent about $5000 on
the following because it was the closest to my rig and he wanted to 'sound like
me'. He bought a PRS CE-24 ( not my recommendation for metal players ) a
Digitech 2120(w/FC) a Mesa 2:Nintey amp a rack and a Mesa 4x12 Recto cab. He
ended up selling the PRS for $500 a month later ( he paid $1600 ) and the 2120
for $500 ( paid $1000 ) and the worst part was he didn't even sell it to me....
He didn't like this rig at all, needless to say ( but I'm saying it ). He sucked
quite frankly. He couldn't even play power chords very well so with this rig,
which sounded pretty good to me, it just magnified all that suck. You can't
really hide bad playing behind a tight defined distortion with balance and
clarity... He sold it because he thought it made him sound worse ( meaning, as a
player ). He bought a Randall Warhead 2x12 and he loves that now. ( One word -
Freak ) So, it just goes to show you... a $5000 rig isn't necessarily the right
rig and it ain't necessarily what you 'need'. I'm a pretty open minded guy and
when it comes to gear. I try everything I can before I buy anything. I say do
the same. I didn't have internet back in the day so I had to dig up all my
product info by swiping brochures and getting AMS and Musicians Friend catalogs.
Ultimately, I saved hundreds, maybe thousands, on gear I wouldn't have liked for
one reason or another.
;
Another thing I think holds true
in most cases is that if you get gear similar to the players you admire and most
resemble playing/style wise you'll probably have better chances at satisfaction.
( If not, grab a Snickers. Packed with peanuts, Snickers satisfies ) Most of my
favorite players use the Triaxis and various Mesa gear. I don't think it's
coincidence. Even if my two favorite players ARE John Petrucci of Dream Theater
and James Murphy ( Testament, Disincarnate and countless death metal albums ). I
used to love Metallica but that's a long story... In the opposite corner of
wisdom I will say that I love Diamond Darrels playing and sound but I
never played with a Randall amp I liked. I personally don't think Dimebag
gets his sound solely from the Randalls he uses. Back in the Cowboys days he had
a rack o' gear he ran through in addition to the Randalls.
Something else to try!!! I used
to be of the 'U' shaped EQ school but in recent years I have made some cool
sounds using unusual curves with the EQ in the 2101. Besides, how experimental
can you get with one hi-gain guitar sound? Listen to a Steve Vai album and
you'll know what I mean... Vai is all about screwing around with Eventides and
G-Forces, that and an exceptional understanding of theory/melody. Face it. Even
if you bought the new Mesa Road King ( all kneel in praise ) you don't want the
same tone for the rest of your life do you? Eventually/occasionally you'll wanna
play with some different tones...
Well, I'll stop now. Sorry to
have littered the globe with this post. Hopefully someone gains from it. (
Probably not though but I'm ok with that ) If I lost focus or stopped in the
middle of making a point, sorry. It's late and I had a long day. Plus the world
blew up, sorta.
;
Later
Folks,
Nate 'Metal Terrorist'
Miller
No, I had nothing to do
with the World Trade Centers
I'm just a metal music
terrorist...
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From: Scott & Nikki CorningTo: 2101Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 8:23 PMSubject: 2101: Hooking up with another preamp?Hello, anyone out there, there sure isnt much action on this list anymore, but here goes my ? Im back to running a different preamp for kicks. A long time ago i was trying to run both simultaneously but that didnt work out too well, than my 2101 LE had to get sent to digitech for repairs LOL. Okay so now im bypassing my 2101 preamp section, using a rocktron progap(ive had it since the 80's, nothing special). My question is.....the effects loop on the rocktron is obviously not stereo, i can Y on the send and put that into the inputs on the 2101 FX return. If i put the sends of the digitech back to the fx loop on the rocktron i would be defeating the stereo option, so i didnt try that, i just put the sends straight to my marshall 9200, like you would if you were running w/out an extra preamp. Now does this take away any of the sound, by not hitting the return of the rocktrons FX loop? I also realized that using the rocktron FX send i would have to hit a "loop on" button everytime i changed a preset, and the output level programmable and external output were not working(obviously after the FX return) so i used "out to amplifier" into the FX return and am experiencing no sound problems, but want to make sure this is safe also. After my 2101 fried last time, im a little weary of too much experimentation.What kinds of (rack) preamps are you guys using to bypass your 2101 preamp section? If you are doing this. Im thinking i really want to use it for FX. Ive been reading lots of reviews in Harmony Central, but there are so many types. I know there are a few really popular ones, triaxis, jmp-1, what else are we talking? Looking for a wide tonal variation, but definitely end up on the heavier, thick and meaty side quite often.Thanks, I hope people are still around.Scott