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K1: problems when editing patches

K1: problems when editing patches

2007-08-06 by ugh_it

Hello from Italy,

I'm new here and I subscribed to this group because I have a K1.

Unfortunately I have a problem with it.

When I try to edit a patch (tried only with "Multi" since I need a
patch for sequencing) the values of the parameters continue to change
by themselves without me having touched a single button.

If, for example, I try to modify the name of the patch I see the
selected letter randomly change even if I haven't yet touched the "+"
or "-" buttons. The continue their ballet even if I push the buttons.
So it's impossibile to select a particular value.

Same happens with any other parameter.

Any clue?

I haven't changed the battery in 15 years but the memory banks are
still there and this should not affect the unit when is turned on. Or not?

Thanks for any help!

Valerio

Re: [kawaisynths] K1: problems when editing patches

2007-08-08 by James Z

I’m taking a stab at this ...... but dose the K1 have a 'joy-stick'? I have a K1-][ and it has a joystick that I can use to rapidly jump around in the settings.... Instead of pressing +++++++ to go from A to say W I can zip to the other end of the alphabet using the joystick.
I’m wondering if you were to move the joystick to a different position (an area that may not have carbon built up and is dirty), and give it a try. See if it makes any differences. IF it dose I might recommend getting it cleaned or replaced.
---- again... I have a K1-][ and I have no idea if the K1 has a joystick.... IF it don't.... do the letters always change in the same direction? for example jumping around up from a-z or down from z-a? Perhaps either the '-' or '+' switch is sticky and needs to be cleaned.
------ ohhh hey, one other thought. A long time ago with my old amiga using bars and pips pro ( really miss that program), I could toggle one of the options to record everything in real time.... Including patch changing etc... ; heh, it was really frustrating until I figured out that I needed to turn it off, or at least keep in mind that it was turned on. So, what I'm getting at is, if you are able to change it to what you like, save it etc... then play a midi file, and it reverts back to something different, this could be what is happening as well. EXAMPLE: If you were editing the name or the patch while playing a midi file...... you play that file and the patches and names start to change again before your eyes... heheh look for a way to turn that off in you midi software.
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----- Original Message -----
From: ugh_it
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 9:57 AM
Subject: [kawaisynths] K1: problems when editing patches

Hello from Italy,

I'm new here and I subscribed to this group because I have a K1.

Unfortunately I have a problem with it.

When I try to edit a patch (tried only with "Multi" since I need a
patch for sequencing) the values of the parameters continue to change
by themselves without me having touched a single button.

If, for example, I try to modify the name of the patch I see the
selected letter randomly change even if I haven't yet touched the "+"
or "-" buttons. The continue their ballet even if I push the buttons.
So it's impossibile to select a particular value.

Same happens with any other parameter.

Any clue?

I haven't changed the battery in 15 years but the memory banks are
still there and this should not affect the unit when is turned on. Or not?

Thanks for any help!

Valerio

Re: K1: problems when editing patches

2007-08-09 by ugh_it

--- In kawaisynths@yahoogroups.com, "James Z" <jaz_men@...> wrote:
>
> I'm taking a stab at this ......   but dose the K1 have a 'joy-stick'?

It does and...
 
> I'm wondering if you were to move the joystick to a different
position (an area that may not have carbon built up and is dirty), and
give it a try.

...this was the problem! I moved the joystick to a different position
and everything worked again.

I will try to clean it (should I use the dry or wet type of contact
cleaner?) but for now the problem (a patch for sequencing) is solved.

Many thanks!!!

Re: K1: problems when editing patches

2007-08-09 by ugh_it

--- In kawaisynths@yahoogroups.com, "James Z" <jaz_men@...> wrote:
>
> I'm taking a stab at this ......   but dose the K1 have a 'joy-stick'?

It does and...
 
> I'm wondering if you were to move the joystick to a different
position (an area that may not have carbon built up and is dirty), and
give it a try.

...this was the problem! I moved the joystick to a different position
and everything worked again.

I will try to clean it (should I use the dry or wet type of contact
cleaner?) but for now the problem (a patch for sequencing) is solved.

Many thanks!!!

Re: [kawaisynths] Re: K1: problems when editing patches

2007-08-10 by James Z

...this was the problem! I moved the joystick to a different position
and everything worked again.

I will try to clean it (should I use the dry or wet type of contact
cleaner?) but for now the problem (a patch for sequencing) is solved.

If it is like mine and I remember correctly........
You should have a cone shaped hole with the stick in the center...
Inside under the casing there is a free moving plastic, rubber, or metal square plate (I forgot what it is made of). A hole is drilled in the center of it, and the 'stick' pokes through this center hole. It is to works as a 'splash-guard' or to try to keep garbage out of and away from the inside of the joystick.
First: I'd go with the dry cleaning... take a vaccume and move the joystick all over while sucking any crumbs or hairs that might be floating on the pad/plate. See if it dose the trick?
Second: Take a really bright light and slowly move the joystick around to see if there is any sticky pop/beer that may have split onto the plate (gumming it up). IF you find a spot or even if you don't, but you can feel it's a bit sluggish in areas, UNPLUG IT.... take a Q-tip with a small amount of rubbing alcohol on it. hold it in one spot so it makes contact with the plate ( put the Q-tip at 12:00 as if it was a clock dial), and move the stick all over the place. Check the Q-tip to see how much gunk you have on it. If it's dirty at all change Q-tips, move clock wise (about 5 min./ 1 hour spacing). and repeat until you get all the way back to the 12:00 mark. Remember to use small amounts of rubbing alcohol. You will end up over lapping the same 'areas of the plate' a lot if you move around the opening like I recommended in hourly intervals (if the joystick was a clock). Wait a few hours, or If you don’t like waiting take a hair dryer to it. But make sure you have not made it so wet as to cause the alcohol to run off the plate and drip onto the inside circuit board. If you did use a lot, which I might be inclined to do myself... don't plug it back in for at least a day or two. (I don't want to recommend something and have you screw up your synth!!!). After a day or so give it a try and see if this fixes it!
Third: While your waiting for it to dry USE IT... and play with it a lot!!!! UP/DOWN/Left/Right/ top corners/ bottom corners, in an 'X' pattern, and don't forget the ever fun 'Round-About' over and over for a long time... heheh sit and watch TV and just keep moving it around for an hour or so. IF it is carbon perhaps you can ware it off. If it dry and that’s a no GO!
........Next would be to open the case. YUK! If you have a way to dump your patches to card or computer, dump both the banks, and the single patches. Some where on here there is a posting on how to change the battery, and which one to buy. You might as well get a new one, and replace it if you going to open the thing up! If you do open it up keep the vaccume handy... you'll be amazed as to how much crap gets inside those things. If I remember correctly the bottom unscrews (a copple on the back) and it lifts off. And for some reason I remember it being a pain in the butt to get to the 'top' side of the circuit board. I don’t remember why, but it just was not as much fun as it sounded when I started my project. There was something that I just didn't expect and it was not fun... maybe it was ribbon cables or all kinds of connectors I forgot what it was. Ohh.. it was cleaning the key pad rubbers! When your looking in the phone book for a place that sells the correct battery, also look for an electronic supply store. When your there ask them for there best advice as to what they have or what you can use to 'spray' inside a POT (or potentiomiter) that will clean off the the carbon with out needing to take apart the joystick or the 'potentiomiters.' You want something that is NON=CAROSIVE and will evaperate clean and quickly. A long time ago in the USA they sold a product called 'BLAST'. I'm not sure if they sell it any more. It was liquid eathely-nitrite, and when sprayed into a rag and inhaled causes one hell of a high, at least until the head-ache set in . Kids were using it to much and I think it was outlawed..... but you can now find it behind the counter at sex shops (sex world), that along, with rush, jungle juice, and all the other 'poppers' from the 70's. But get it from a real electronic store or what ever they recommend is the best stuff to use... Get the best stuff because you don't want to have to take the synth apart again unless you have to.
WHAT IS A JOYSTICK, and how the heck do I clean it???: Once you get inside the synth, unscrew the stick and lift off the plate. vaccum out anything that may have fallen under the plate. The joystick itself will more then likely be a plastic cube. Stick coming out of the top, and two round metal things attached to it. These will be 90 degrees from each other not across from each other. These are the 'POTs' (potentiomitors), and what are causing the problem. The spray you have should come with a small straw, find a hole around the casing of the pots, and spray the heck out of it... then quickly start moving the joystick around and all over. The stuff will usually evaporate very fast... so repeat it often with each of the 'pots' one at a time.
Replace the battery, put it back together, and hope that it's clean enough. not to cause any further problems. IF this don't do the trick... you can opt to get the specs on the joy-stick and replace it your self if you feel comfortable with a soldering gun. -or- 2. if you can figure out if it's the up/down 'POT' or the LEFT/RIGHT 'POT', and it bothers you enough to go back in.... I can explain how to dismantle the actual 'pots' and use the spray and a ladies fingernail file or a match book strike pad to polish all the carbon off the contacts.
To tell you the truth, if the joystick only acts up in one very small area.... and the first 3 options don't fix it.... Id be to lazy to worry about it... as long as you can move it to a location to not cause the problem while setting the banks/sound patches.... Is there any reason to use the joystick? when actually playing the synth???? hummm... I don't think I have ever used it for anything other then to move/jump around the menus while changing the settings
TO ANYONE OUT THERE>>>>>......... Please add anything to THIS post if you have any other quick fixes for our friend from Italy.
____________________________________________________________________
--------------------------= Cut here =-----------------------
____________________________________________________________________
In addition; TO ANYONE OUT THERE>>>>> I have really started to wonder...... Is there a use for the joystick on a k1 or k1-][ other then for jumping through the settings/menus??? I’m talking about during playing/using the keyboard?????? hummm this really has me wondering what other functions can be assigned to it??? If you have any experience on this please post it in a new thread... I'd really like to know how, and what you have done with it. I'd post it in a new thread myself, but frankly... it's been years since I have been to SpamY-AHhooooooOOOooooooo I'm not even sure what my log in is, password, and how I would even find this kawai site anymore.... I read every posting that finds my mail box, but I kind of gave up on the place when no-one could/would recommend a great patch/bank/tone editor for the K1-][ and the PC. I did have one YEARS ago that you could actually use the mouse to create the wave forms for the sound patches. Dump the multi banks, all the patches, or a single bank or a single patch, rename, move, copy, edit effects, etc..... It did it all and it was slick...... but that program crashed and My bars and pipes (MIDI software) also started acting up when I upgraded my Old amiga 2500 from work bench 1.3 to OS 2.0. I was very sad that day! It must have been in 1992 or around there.
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----- Original Message -----
From: ugh_it
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 5:56 PM
Subject: [kawaisynths] Re: K1: problems when editing patches

--- In kawaisynths@yahoogroups.com, "James Z" > wrote:
>
> I'm taking a stab at this ...... but dose the K1 have a 'joy-stick'?

It does and...

> I'm wondering if you were to move the joystick to a different
position (an area that may not have carbon built up and is dirty), and
give it a try.

...this was the problem! I moved the joystick to a different position
and everything worked again.

I will try to clean it (should I use the dry or wet type of contact
cleaner?) but for now the problem (a patch for sequencing) is solved.

Many thanks!!!

Re: [kawaisynths] Re: K1: problems when editing patches

2007-08-16 by James Z

Ya, that sounds like some great stuff... I was a bit concerned about the 'note for audio 911 info text', but after reading it, it still sound like the right stuff... Next time I have a few bucks I think I'll get some for myself. ohh the link to the PDF file that ;has the extra info on cleaning audio equipment is below:
the actual link to the PDF file is this one:
In a nut shell they recommend which of there products to buy for cleaning Potentiometers when it comes to audio equipment. But then again... this is NOT a volume pot or a pan left/right pot....SO my question before has a little merit at this point. can the joystick be set to control wave forms, modulation, etc. on the fly while playing the keyboard.. Can the joystick be used some how be used as an old style LFO, attack, delay, etc.. analog slider while playing the keyboard? This comes into play as to what type of cleaners the site recommends to be used. Audio quality -VS- regular cleaning???
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----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 10:47 AM
Subject: Re: [kawaisynths] Re: K1: problems when editing patches

Rubbing alcohol evaporates really fast, there's no problem in using the synth a few minutes after it was used. Also, do NOT move the joystick all around for hours, that's going to wear off the carbon on it and you'll have to change it.

You might want to use a proper cleaning product if you're ready to pay for it, like (not affiliated) some DeoxIT or FaderLube. You should use a 5% solution can(95% solvent). This way, the spray will clean the carbon and protect it.

http://store.caig.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.293/.f

2007/8/10, James Z <jaz_men@hotmail.com >:
...this was the problem! I moved the joystick to a different position
and everything worked again.

I will try to clean it (should I use the dry or wet type of contact
cleaner?) but for now the problem (a patch for sequencing) is solved.

If it is like mine and I remember correctly........
You should have a cone shaped hole with the stick in the center...
Inside under the casing there is a free moving plastic, rubber, or metal square plate (I forgot what it is made of). A hole is drilled in the center of it, and the 'stick' pokes through this center hole. It is to works as a 'splash-guard' or to try to keep garbage out of and away from the inside of the joystick.
First: I'd go with the dry cleaning... take a vaccume and move the joystick all over while sucking any crumbs or hairs that might be floating on the pad/plate. See if it dose the trick?
Second: Take a really bright light and slowly move the joystick around to see if there is any sticky pop/beer that may have split onto the plate (gumming it up). IF you find a spot or even if you don't, but you can feel it's a bit sluggish in areas, UNPLUG IT.... take a Q-tip with a small amount of rubbing alcohol on it. hold it in one spot so it makes contact with the plate ( put the Q-tip at 12:00 as if it was a clock dial), and move the stick all over the place. Check the Q-tip to see how much gunk you have on it. If it's dirty at all change Q-tips, move clock wise (about 5 min./ 1 hour spacing). and repeat until you get all the way back to the 12:00 mark. Remember to use small amounts of rubbing alcohol. You will end up over lapping the same 'areas of the plate' a lot if you move around the opening like I recommended in hourly intervals (if the joystick was a clock). Wait a few hours, or If you don't like waiting take a hair dryer to it. But make sure you have not made it so wet as to cause the alcohol to run off the plate and drip onto the inside circuit board. If you did use a lot, which I might be inclined to do myself... don't plug it back in for at least a day or two. (I don't want to recommend something and have you screw up your synth!!!). After a day or so give it a try and see if this fixes it!
Third: While your waiting for it to dry USE IT... and play with it a lot!!!! UP/DOWN/Left/Right/ top corners/ bottom corners, in an 'X' pattern, and don't forget the ever fun 'Round-About' over and over for a long time... heheh sit and watch TV and just keep moving it around for an hour or so. IF it is carbon perhaps you can ware it off. If it dry and that's a no GO!

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