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HAWK-800 - the situation

HAWK-800 - the situation

2008-07-17 by korgpolyex800

Hi HAWK-800 owners (and potential owners),

Here's the situation.

i) The battery went flat again. It lasted about 8 weeks this time. Not
much of an improvement over the last time. The best fix for this is to
change the software to use flash memory for patch storage thereby
completely eliminating the battery. But that requires further work on
the software and this is not going to be an easy task.

ii) There is a bug that I haven't yet fixed that causes stuck notes
for downstream MIDI devices when you operate the sequencer and play
notes at the same time. Once again, the software fix is not going to
be an easy task.

iii) I've sold a grand total of 13 kits.

iv) I've done some of the development work on the Atomahawk kit but
it's not finished yet.

v) I have another project waiting to begin for a completely unrelated
field (wide area networking) that promises to actually make a big load
of cash.

So then, The Ultimatum from my Wife is - I am not going to do anymore
work on the HAWK-800 or Atomahawk kits until I sell at least another
ten HAWK-800 kits. I have until mid July to see that happen.

I will of course continue to support the HAWK-800 as it exists today.
And I definitely will get back to further development of both the
HAWK-800 and the Atomahawk later this year.

Of course, I could be surprised and get ten orders in 28 days. But I
think that unlikely.

So for now, it's been a lot of fun.

Mike.

Re:HAWK-800 - the situation

2008-07-17 by korgpolyex800

--- In korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com, Russ <russdaren@...> wrote:
>
> do you mean mid august?
> It is mid july right now.
>

Yes, mid August.

Mike

Re:HAWK-800 - the situation

2008-07-18 by theringer01

I will spread the word in Germany. Every owner of a Poly 800 should
have the HAWK upgrade!! 


--- In korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com, "korgpolyex800" <korgpolyex800@...>
wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> --- In korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com, Russ <russdaren@> wrote:
> >
> > do you mean mid august?
> > It is mid july right now.
> >
> 
> Yes, mid August.
> 
> Mike
>

Re: HAWK-800 - the situation

2008-07-18 by John Riegen

I'm patiently waiting till the program / modification is working without falures.
I did not understand much of the discussions in a kind of slang language between the 
menbers 
When I should buy the Hawk 800, what do I get, a working device, or something that 
stucks while by while and gets low batteries from time to time (program gone?)
Please can you summerise what I get at what prize?
Can I use my  poly 800 as a midi controller, use different channels?
Because of my bad English (I'm from the Netherlands)I hope you can understand 
my message.

John
--- In korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com, "korgpolyex800" <korgpolyex800@...> wrote:
>
> Hi HAWK-800 owners (and potential owners),
> 
> Here's the situation.
> 
> i) The battery went flat again. It lasted about 8 weeks this time. Not
> much of an improvement over the last time. The best fix for this is to
> change the software to use flash memory for patch storage thereby
> completely eliminating the battery. But that requires further work on
> the software and this is not going to be an easy task.
> 
> ii) There is a bug that I haven't yet fixed that causes stuck notes
> for downstream MIDI devices when you operate the sequencer and play
> notes at the same time. Once again, the software fix is not going to
> be an easy task.
_________________cut _____________________________

Re: HAWK-800 - the situation

2008-07-18 by korgpolyex800

I will fix the battery problem this year. But for now, you can use
three AA batteries.

I will fix the sequencer bug. There is no work around for it so I will
just have to fix it.

But my wife has run out of patience. So even though I would like to
keep "Korging", as she puts it, I have to move on to other things for now.

Perhaps I'll sneak some work into the kit while no ones looking.

Mike. 


--- In korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com, "John Riegen" <john.riegen@...> wrote:
>
> I'm patiently waiting till the program / modification is working
without falures.
> I did not understand much of the discussions in a kind of slang
language between the 
> menbers 
> When I should buy the Hawk 800, what do I get, a working device, or
something that 
> stucks while by while and gets low batteries from time to time
(program gone?)
> Please can you summerise what I get at what prize?
> Can I use my  poly 800 as a midi controller, use different channels?
> Because of my bad English (I'm from the Netherlands)I hope you can
understand 
> my message.
> 
> John
> --- In korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com, "korgpolyex800" <korgpolyex800@>
wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> >
> > Hi HAWK-800 owners (and potential owners),
> > 
> > Here's the situation.
> > 
> > i) The battery went flat again. It lasted about 8 weeks this time. Not
> > much of an improvement over the last time. The best fix for this is to
> > change the software to use flash memory for patch storage thereby
> > completely eliminating the battery. But that requires further work on
> > the software and this is not going to be an easy task.
> > 
> > ii) There is a bug that I haven't yet fixed that causes stuck notes
> > for downstream MIDI devices when you operate the sequencer and play
> > notes at the same time. Once again, the software fix is not going to
> > be an easy task.
> _________________cut _____________________________
>

HAWK-800 - another update

2008-07-18 by korgpolyex800

Hi Poly fans,

I spent some time talking to my wife (you can tell who's boss here
right) and after further explanations and pleadings she has agreed to
let me fix the sequencer MIDI issue and the battery problem.

So patches, sequencer data and global mode parameters are all going to
be moved into flash ROM so you will be able to remove the battery
altogether.

And the sequencer MIDI bug will be fixed too.

Then I'll be working on my new projects which will slow the atomahawk
kit down a bit. But that's OK, I'll get it done.

Mike.

Re: HAWK-800 - another update

2008-07-18 by Erik Hines

Mike,

Please repost purchase information for the hawk kit. I have been 
waiting for the bugs to be worked out before I purchased the kit 
myself. Once it's solid and most of the major bugs worked out, I 
think you'll find a lot of us 'open minded skeptics' oredering these 
kits...

Erik

 --- In korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com, "korgpolyex800" 
<korgpolyex800@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Poly fans,
> 
> I spent some time talking to my wife (you can tell who's boss here
> right) and after further explanations and pleadings she has agreed 
to
> let me fix the sequencer MIDI issue and the battery problem.
> 
> So patches, sequencer data and global mode parameters are all going 
to
> be moved into flash ROM so you will be able to remove the battery
> altogether.
> 
> And the sequencer MIDI bug will be fixed too.
> 
> Then I'll be working on my new projects which will slow the 
atomahawk
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> kit down a bit. But that's OK, I'll get it done.
> 
> Mike.
>

Re: [korgpolyex] Re: HAWK-800 - another update

2008-07-18 by Michael Hawkins

Thanks Erik,

Thinking about it from the buyers perspective, I can see how people might hesitate to buy a kit that has a battery problem and a known as yet unfixed sequencer bug.

Hang on, isn't that how Korg released the Poly-800? LOL

But seriously, I understand the concern.

I will be working overtime to get the patches moved into FLASH and working on fixing the known MIDI sequencer bug. Both have known ways of fixing them but just need some time to be done. Something that spent some considerable time explaining to my better half.

The kit is $99 USD and can be bought directly here:

http://patrioticduo.tripod.com/hawk800/buythekit.html

Since posting another kit on ebay, I've also received quite a few questions that are not answered or explained on the website. So I plan to spend more time getting the documentation in order as well.

Thanks to all for your support.

Mike.
Show quoted textHide quoted text

--- On Fri, 7/18/08, Erik Hines wrote:
From: Erik Hines
Subject: [korgpolyex] Re: HAWK-800 - another update
To: korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, July 18, 2008, 1:21 PM

Mike,

Please repost purchase information for the hawk kit. I have been
waiting for the bugs to be worked out before I purchased the kit
myself. Once it's solid and most of the major bugs worked out, I
think you'll find a lot of us 'open minded skeptics' oredering these
kits...

Erik

--- In korgpolyex@yahoogro ups.com, "korgpolyex800"
wrote:
>
> Hi Poly fans,
>
> I spent some time talking to my wife (you can tell who's boss here
> right) and after further explanations and pleadings she has agreed
to
> let me fix the sequencer MIDI issue and the battery problem.
>
> So patches, sequencer data and global mode parameters are all going
to
> be moved into flash ROM so you will be able to remove the battery
> altogether.
>
> And the sequencer MIDI bug will be fixed too.
>
> Then I'll be working on my new projects which will slow the
atomahawk
> kit down a bit. But that's OK, I'll get it done.
>
> Mike.
>


Re: [korgpolyex] Re: HAWK-800 - another update

2008-07-19 by Atom Smasher

On Fri, 18 Jul 2008, Erik Hines wrote:

> Please repost purchase information for the hawk kit. I have been waiting 
> for the bugs to be worked out before I purchased the kit myself. Once 
> it's solid and most of the major bugs worked out, I think you'll find a 
> lot of us 'open minded skeptics' oredering these kits...
========================

count me in the "wait and see" camp...

i avoid version 1 of just about anything, even for things like CD players 
and video recorders. i'm waiting for the (inevitable) bugs to get worked 
out, and also see if the "expansion" for the atomohawk ever comes out (i 
can live without it, but if it's on the way i'll wait for it and order the 
whole thing at once).

so, mr hawk... do you think the project might get put on the back burner 
indefinitely, or only until your other obligations pass?

in a project of this scope (upgrading the hardware and software of a 80's 
synth) one thing is certain: after counting your time, there's no way 
you'll make money. similar projects have upgraded the software for synths 
of the same vintage as the poly-800 (the cheetah MS6, yamaha TX16W and the 
roland MKS30 come to mind), and i seriously doubt that those have been 
money-makers for the people who did them (and AFAIK those projects left 
the original hardware, only upgrading the software). the only sane 
perspective on this is to consider this a hobby/project that you're doing 
for yourself and making it available to others. if you (or your wife) take 
the position that it's anything resembling a profitable venture, then it's 
doomed to let you down.

my mods are done for me, and given away for free. a few people have 
offered to take me to lunch, but as yet i've been unable to redeem any of 
those offers. of course i'm giving away information, and no one would ask 
you to give away hardware, but the business models are otherwise about the 
same.

as i've said, i tend to avoid anything that's version 1. if i had to make 
a choice between ordering the kit as it is, or never getting one, i'd put 
in an order... but if you think the kit will be more mature in 6-12 
months, i'd rather wait. i can even send you half the money now, and the 
other half when you ship a more mature kit. at the moment, it seems like 
the worst bug is the short life of the backup battery; if i've been 
following things accurately, all of the other problems seem to lie in the 
software realm, so shouldn't be hard to fix after the units are sold 
(deployed?).

q1) what's the latest update with the battery? do you think that will need 
a new layout on the board? or can the problem be fixed with some flying 
wires and 1-2 resisters later on? or maybe a drop-in replacement for the 
RAM?

q2) not counting software bugs and yet-to-be-implemented features, are 
there any other concerns about the hardware?

q3) do you think the atomohawk expansion will see daylight? when?

q4) if i don't order by the "deadline", will i lose my chances of ever 
getting the kit? or will i have another chance after your other project(s) 
wrap up?

q5) what's your opinion of getting a group of fence-sitters (it seems i'm 
not the only one) to each send you $50 now, with a promise that certain 
bugs/features will be fixed/added within a certain time-frame, and then 
send you another $50 before you ship?


-- 
         ...atom

  ________________________
  http://atom.smasher.org/
  762A 3B98 A3C3 96C9 C6B7 582A B88D 52E4 D9F5 7808
  -------------------------------------------------

 	"Microsoft is a bad neighbour, whose allowed their yard
 	 to fill with filth and trash, subjecting the people
 	 around them to the vermin and roaches that breed
 	 within their unkempt property. It is on this day that
 	 the internet will begin to sputter and fail in places
 	 due to the tremendous burdon Microsoft's incompetence
 	 has placed upon it. Microsoft's products spew
 	 pollution into the information space like a burning
 	 mountain of tires."
 		-- Unknown

Re: [korgpolyex] Re: HAWK-800 - another update

2008-07-19 by Atom Smasher

On Fri, 18 Jul 2008, Michael Hawkins wrote:

> Thinking about it from the buyers perspective, I can see how people 
> might hesitate to buy a kit that has a battery problem and a known as 
> yet unfixed sequencer bug.
================

speaking for myself, i'd probably never notice if there's a bug with the 
sequencer; i've never used the sequencer, and don't plan on ever using it.

the battery thing... lemme know when that's fixed ;)

looking at the list of Proposed Features 
<http://patrioticduo.tripod.com/hawk800/id3.html> i would put my own 
priority as:

  1) velocity sense
  2) 2 "super" LFOs
  3) LFO direction invert
  4) LFO to noise gate

real-time MIDI control was high on my list, but that seems to have moved 
into the "completed" list. also the mono mode with portamento... i'd buy a 
small upgrade (eg, $10-20 EPROM) if that was the only thing it did ;)

so, mike... next time you put this much time and effort into a synth, 
maybe you'll consider doing something from scratch? along the lines of the 
sid-station, maybe?


-- 
         ...atom

  ________________________
  http://atom.smasher.org/
  762A 3B98 A3C3 96C9 C6B7 582A B88D 52E4 D9F5 7808
  -------------------------------------------------

  	"All animals are equal, but some more than others."
 		-- George Orwell

Re: HAWK-800 - another update

2008-07-19 by Russ

count me as one of the fence sitters. I was under the impression we were in some kind of alpha-beta stage. So I was holding on to my 5 greasy jacksons until it seemed more stable. As it is looking like the availability may dry up soon I might just take the plunge after I balance  my checkbook.

Fence sitters

2008-07-19 by korgpolyex800

There is NO danger of me ending this project. I enjoy it too much.

The boards and parts can be ordered in small batches. Which is exactly
what I've been doing.

The battery will soon be no more. I'll write code that uses the flash
memory instead. That's something I should have done from the get go.

The sequencer bug is something that someone sooner or later is going
to run into. I will fix this too.

The Atomahawk is also definitely going to be done. It will take a few
months longer than I hoped for but I just can't let this new
opportunity pass by. I already have the FM-800 working under EG3
control and it is very nice indeed. I also have a prototype moog
slayer working as well.

I am not trying to make money out this. But I did hope for a few more
kits sold so that I felt like I was doing something that more than a
handful of people would actually use. Now I've come to realize that
there are some fence sitters out there, I'll make sure I get the bugs
ironed out.

Mike.



--- In korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com, Russ <russdaren@...> wrote:
>
> 
> count me as one of the fence sitters. I was under the impression we
were in some kind of alpha-beta stage. So I was holding on to my 5
greasy jacksons until it seemed more stable. As it is looking like the
availability may dry up soon I might just take the plunge after I
balance  my checkbook.
>

Re: [korgpolyex] Fence sitters

2008-07-20 by Daniel Forro

Mike,

count me please as well, I've been following the development  
carefully waiting for better news about progress, and curing my bank  
account in the meantime. My EX800 can't sleep how she's looking  
forward to the new guts.
Hearing about better halfs reminded me I have also an advisor in such  
unimportant things for gear addicted person, like which instrument or  
equipment buy or better not buy. But I have total freedom in such  
important fields like my relation to mosquitos, my opinion on UFO,  
God yes or no or so... at least. C'est la vie. (Still I think your  
wife must be an angel :-), not easy life with uncommon people like us  
musicians or anybody creative who wants to leave something behind.)

Keep good work, don't give up... A flower, perfume, everyday washing  
the dishes or invitation to the good restaurant from time to time  
make miracles, you know.

Daniel Forro
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On 20 Jul 2008, at 5:15 AM, korgpolyex800 wrote:

> There is NO danger of me ending this project. I enjoy it too much.
>
> The boards and parts can be ordered in small batches. Which is exactly
> what I've been doing.
>
> The battery will soon be no more. I'll write code that uses the flash
> memory instead. That's something I should have done from the get go.
>
> The sequencer bug is something that someone sooner or later is going
> to run into. I will fix this too.
>
> The Atomahawk is also definitely going to be done. It will take a few
> months longer than I hoped for but I just can't let this new
> opportunity pass by. I already have the FM-800 working under EG3
> control and it is very nice indeed. I also have a prototype moog
> slayer working as well.
>
> I am not trying to make money out this. But I did hope for a few more
> kits sold so that I felt like I was doing something that more than a
> handful of people would actually use. Now I've come to realize that
> there are some fence sitters out there, I'll make sure I get the bugs
> ironed out.
>
> Mike.
>
>
>
> --- In korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com, Russ <russdaren@...> wrote:
>>
>>
>> count me as one of the fence sitters. I was under the impression we
> were in some kind of alpha-beta stage. So I was holding on to my 5
> greasy jacksons until it seemed more stable. As it is looking like the
> availability may dry up soon I might just take the plunge after I
> balance  my checkbook.
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Re: [korgpolyex] Fence sitters

2008-07-21 by Atom Smasher

On Sat, 19 Jul 2008, korgpolyex800 wrote:

> I already have the FM-800 working under EG3 control and it is very nice 
> indeed. I also have a prototype moog slayer working as well.
===============

OMFG!!!! samples? videos?

will that also be under LFO and midi control, at some point?

after the battery issue is sorted out, i think you'll also get some 
interest (and publicity for the project) from the analog heaven list.


-- 
         ...atom

  ________________________
  http://atom.smasher.org/
  762A 3B98 A3C3 96C9 C6B7 582A B88D 52E4 D9F5 7808
  -------------------------------------------------

 	"HEY! HO! LET'S GO!"
 		-- The Ramones

Re: [korgpolyex] HAWK-800 - another update

2008-07-21 by Atom Smasher

On Fri, 18 Jul 2008, korgpolyex800 wrote:

> I spent some time talking to my wife (you can tell who's boss here 
> right) and after further explanations and pleadings she has agreed to 
> let me fix the sequencer MIDI issue and the battery problem.
===================

does anyone else here wanna throw some money in a hat and get her some 
flowers? or a bottle of wine? or...? mike, let us know.... i think a small 
gift from (current and future) hawk-800 owners will keep her happy.


-- 
         ...atom

  ________________________
  http://atom.smasher.org/
  762A 3B98 A3C3 96C9 C6B7 582A B88D 52E4 D9F5 7808
  -------------------------------------------------

 	"Everything that can be invented has been invented."
 		-- Charles H. Duell,
 		Commissioner, U.S. Office of Patents, 1899

FM-800 is already under MIDI control

2008-07-21 by korgpolyex800

The FM-800 is already under MIDI control.

Perhaps I should do a video.

Mike.

--- In korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com, Atom Smasher <atom@...> wrote:
>
> On Sat, 19 Jul 2008, korgpolyex800 wrote:
> 
> > I already have the FM-800 working under EG3 control and it is very
nice 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > indeed. I also have a prototype moog slayer working as well.
> ===============
> 
> OMFG!!!! samples? videos?
> 
> will that also be under LFO and midi control, at some point?
> 
> after the battery issue is sorted out, i think you'll also get some 
> interest (and publicity for the project) from the analog heaven list.
> 
> 
> -- 
>          ...atom
> 
>   ________________________
>   http://atom.smasher.org/
>   762A 3B98 A3C3 96C9 C6B7 582A B88D 52E4 D9F5 7808
>   -------------------------------------------------
> 
>  	"HEY! HO! LET'S GO!"
>  		-- The Ramones
>

Re: HAWK-800 - another update

2008-07-27 by zoinky420

--- In korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com, Atom Smasher <atom@...> wrote:
>
> On Fri, 18 Jul 2008, korgpolyex800 wrote:
> 
> > I spent some time talking to my wife (you can tell who's boss 
here 
> > right) and after further explanations and pleadings she has 
agreed to 
> > let me fix the sequencer MIDI issue and the battery problem.
> ===================
> 
> does anyone else here wanna throw some money in a hat and get her 
some 
> flowers? or a bottle of wine? or...? mike, let us know.... i think 
a small 
> gift from (current and future) hawk-800 owners will keep her happy.
> 

I think the best thing to do would be to do what she already said 
would make her feel the project is worthwhile - get 10 more gets sold 
by mid august.  I'll definitely have mine purchased by then!  A gift 
for Mike's wife would certainly be a nice gesture, but I get the 
impression it's the amount of time Mike spends on the project that 
concerns her, so for example, a gift she might really appreciate more 
than bouquet of flowers would be to buy a few hours of Mike's 
professional time out of a workday to spend with her doing whatever 
she wants with her husband.  Just my two cents.. (and my bucks for 
the Hawk are coming soon!)

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