The Logic Off Topic list

Thoughts from the mind of GAmoore@..., 9/22/01:

>  >Hendrik Jan Veenstra <h@...> wrote:
>>>... and what do you say to the tens of thousands of innocent
>>>Afghanistan citizens, most of them dead-poor,
>
>I say to them, respect international conventions and extradite the accused
>mass murderer for proper trial.

To the people?  Dead-poor farmers and shepards?  What power do they 
have?  What's their guilt?

>And regarding innocence and lack of evidence, it appears the US government
>has a great deal of evidence that they are not disclosing.

And in Hamburg 6 people are arrested that seem to have to do with the 
attack, and are not associated with Bin Laden at all.  And evidence 
has been found pointing to Irak, not being related to Bin Laden 
either.
And even if BL is the evil brain behind the bombings (and ignoring 
the samll fact that it was the US who initially financed Bin Laden, 
back when the USSR attacked Afghanistan): there's still the "tiny" 
matter of "certainty beyond a reasonable doubt" before anyone can be 
convicted, isn't it?
Sure I understand the US want to have a "deep chat" with Bin Laden, 
and they're right if they want to interrogate him in person.  But 
that would mean: "wanted: alive".  Which is not at all the same as 
"dead or alive".

>  Before shedding a
>tear for these people about to die, you might wait for them to actually be
>attacked - since nothing has actually happened yet!

Apparently you didn't see the footage from Afghanistan on tv...  Any 
idea how many completely innocent people are on the run right now? 
Tens of thousands, running through hostile mountains, leaving their 
belongings behind, only to reach a 1.5 *million* people refugee-camp 
in Pakistan...

>So please think twice before you dispense your anti-American comments.

I do think twice.  And more than that.  I just don't think my post 
was anti-American.  There's a difference between the US as a people, 
and the US as a political entity.  I mourn for the people (or at 
least those that have in whichever way been hurt by the attack). 
That doesn't mean I have to agree with all actions or utterings of 
the political body.
There's plenty of sadness, in the US and elsewhere, and terrorism is 
a horrible presence on this planet.  However, simple demagogic talk 
like "whoever is not with us, is with the terrorists" is just not 
acceptable to me.  One of the things that's completely being ignored 
in such platitudes is the fact that it's not just America & co versus 
"the rest of the world".  Some people love America, and with good 
reason.  Some hate America, and with equally good reason.  Does 
anyone really believe the Palestines will ever cooperate with the US? 
After they've been murdered with US-supplied weapons for decades? 
Are they therefore all terrorists?
Saying that anyone who doesn't like the US is therefore "with the 
terrorists" is, imo, a horrible and shortsighted thing to do.  If you 
want to take that personally and call this an "anti-American" 
comment... well, then we'll have to redefine quite a few words in our 
dictionaries, I'm afraid...


regards,
HJ
-- 
     Hendrik Jan Veenstra
     email: mailto:h@...
     www:   http://www.ision.nl/users/h/index.html