The Logic Off Topic list

> From: Spectro <spectro@...>
> 
> A nation that built much of its wealth and proseperity on the back of a
> largely unwilling, indentured labour force.  The US walked away from
> the Racism conference in South Africa recently. Why is that?

Before they walked out, they had agreed on language that 'slavery should
have always been a crime against humanity' - a position that avoids monetary
claims.  I personally support what we call in the US "Reparations" but the
US has made it clear (going so far as putting it in the Constitution) that
they're not paying the slaves back for their free labor.

The issue was that the conference wanted to equate Zionism and genocide.
Again, the Middle East, again Israel, Palastine, and their respective
supporters.


> 
> A nation that for  a large part of the last century  has had its snout in the
> the middle easts 'gold pot' and directly or otherwise has created instability
> in that region for that time, largely to ensure it's supply of fuel is
> not profoundly disturbed.


That's a cynical view.  Of course, energy supply is part of the situation,
but also, the lessons learned from WWI teach the world that you can't
isolate yourself from conflict in another part of the world, because it
might grow to involve you on a larger scale, and also, that you can't ignore
the poverty of a defeated enemy for the same reason.  There's more to
politics than money.

> US's 'puppet' King in Saudi Arabia who is generally
> disliked  by a large part of the population.

Can you site a source for this ridiculous claim?


> Exportation on a tremendous scale of largely vaccuous entertainment and
> 'lifestyle choices' , which promote values many who are not similarly
> inclined see as selfish, unquestioning, frequently violent and irresponsible.

Things only get exported when there's a demand for them.  What does that say
about the world?  You can't blame those that 'give the people what they
want'.   Also, there are plenty of other countries that export violent
movies, etc. -- for example, the "Mad Max" series...


> In simple terms, there are some basic motivations behind these examples:
> greed, profit and  exploitation,  often cleverly disguised as 'freedom and
> opportunity'. The US isn't the only nation doing this, but it does so on a
> typically grander scale and thus stands tallest. Until this changes,  (if it
> ever does) there will be a problem, and at some time some where, the US
> will be seen as the 'Great Satan' you refer to.

First off, what some call greed, profit, and exploitation, others call a
free market economy.  Second, that's not why some extremists call the US the
'great Satan' -- it's because we don't conform to their corrupt vision of
Islam.

> 
> If nothing else can come of this, perhaps it is an opportunity for
> Americans (and us all) to be less 'indulgently wealthy' and more 'ethically
> wealthy', learn about world events and insist on being informed about them
> by the largely self obsessed media. Learn history and geography, be less
> loud and more humble...

Become Communists?


> 
> This won't stop madmen, but it will definitely make the more reasonable
> individuals around them far more difficult to convince that their way is
> right.

There will always be madmen and criminals, and idiots that follow them and
give their life to them.  Discarding our ideals won't make them go away.
The ostrich that sticks it's head in the sand thinks that's the reasonable
thing to do - who's to convince them they're being unreasonable?