The Logic Off Topic list

----- Original Message -----
From: "marc lindahl" <marc@...>
To: <logic-ot@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2001 10:34 AM
Subject: Re: [L-OT] Re: OT Goodbye


>
>
> > From: Spectro <spectro@...>
> >
> > A nation that built much of its wealth and proseperity on the back of a
> > largely unwilling, indentured labour force.  The US walked away from
> > the Racism conference in South Africa recently. Why is that?
>
> Before they walked out, they had agreed on language that 'slavery should
> have always been a crime against humanity' - a position that avoids
monetary
> claims.  I personally support what we call in the US "Reparations" but the
> US has made it clear (going so far as putting it in the Constitution) that
> they're not paying the slaves back for their free labor.
>

This is accurate so far as it goes but the government did promise 40 acres
and a mule, which was never delivered.  This is the basis for many's call
for reparations.

> The issue was that the conference wanted to equate Zionism and genocide.
> Again, the Middle East, again Israel, Palastine, and their respective
> supporters.
>
>
> >
> > A nation that for  a large part of the last century  has had its snout
in the
> > the middle easts 'gold pot' and directly or otherwise has created
instability
> > in that region for that time, largely to ensure it's supply of fuel is
> > not profoundly disturbed.
>
>
> That's a cynical view.  Of course, energy supply is part of the situation,
> but also, the lessons learned from WWI teach the world that you can't
> isolate yourself from conflict in another part of the world, because it
> might grow to involve you on a larger scale, and also, that you can't
ignore
> the poverty of a defeated enemy for the same reason.  There's more to
> politics than money.
>
> > US's 'puppet' King in Saudi Arabia who is generally
> > disliked  by a large part of the population.
>
> Can you site a source for this ridiculous claim?
>

This has been reported in the news, I suppose it could be looked up but I
think if you just do a search you'll find it.  Ah, never mind, here,
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/middle_east/newsid_1050000/1050774.st
m     I think calling Saudi Arabia a "puppet government" is rather debatable
though.

>
> > Exportation on a tremendous scale of largely vaccuous entertainment and
> > 'lifestyle choices' , which promote values many who are not similarly
> > inclined see as selfish, unquestioning, frequently violent and
irresponsible.
>
> Things only get exported when there's a demand for them.  What does that
say
> about the world?  You can't blame those that 'give the people what they
> want'.   Also, there are plenty of other countries that export violent
> movies, etc. -- for example, the "Mad Max" series...
>
>
> > In simple terms, there are some basic motivations behind these examples:
> > greed, profit and  exploitation,  often cleverly disguised as 'freedom
and
> > opportunity'. The US isn't the only nation doing this, but it does so on
a
> > typically grander scale and thus stands tallest. Until this changes,
(if it
> > ever does) there will be a problem, and at some time some where, the US
> > will be seen as the 'Great Satan' you refer to.
>
> First off, what some call greed, profit, and exploitation, others call a
> free market economy.  Second, that's not why some extremists call the US
the
> 'great Satan' -- it's because we don't conform to their corrupt vision of
> Islam.
>
> >
> > If nothing else can come of this, perhaps it is an opportunity for
> > Americans (and us all) to be less 'indulgently wealthy' and more
'ethically
> > wealthy', learn about world events and insist on being informed about
them
> > by the largely self obsessed media. Learn history and geography, be less
> > loud and more humble...
>
> Become Communists?
>
>
> >
> > This won't stop madmen, but it will definitely make the more reasonable
> > individuals around them far more difficult to convince that their way is
> > right.
>
> There will always be madmen and criminals, and idiots that follow them and
> give their life to them.  Discarding our ideals won't make them go away.
> The ostrich that sticks it's head in the sand thinks that's the reasonable
> thing to do - who's to convince them they're being unreasonable?
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>