The Logic Off Topic list

At 8:37 PM -0700 10/10/01, Kool Musick wrote:
>I do not know, through all the quotings and requotings, who said this
>
>  >Imagine how worse it might be if Hitler, Tojo, Stalin, Krushev or Mao had
>  >fullfilled their wishes.
>
>They are simply the they who lost. And what did these theys who lost do but
>try to remake the world in their image? And ... what of the theys who won?
>What did those theys also do but try to remake the world in their image?
>
>To the victor goes the luxury of remaking the world in their image. That
>remaking never involves heaping praise upon the they they have defeated.
>Nor does it involve awarding them medals for their gallantry, writing songs
>about their uplifting presentations of humanity nor for their clear
>thinking and vision.
>
>If the they who lost had instead been the they who won then would we not
>all now be debating just how lucky we were that the they who lost won while
>the they who won lost instead of us debating how good indeed it is that the
>they who won won and the they who lost lost.

Nice thoughts.   One pretty big detail is worth taking into 
consideration though.  Stalin was on that list and he didn't lose. 
In fact he consolidated control over a pretty vast empire.  Even 
victorious as he was, he didn't manage to remake the world into his 
own image, and not for want of trying either.  He did manage to kill 
a lot of people and is pretty universally regarded as evil by the 
very people your theory suggests should see him as a hero.  In a 
general sort of way I think your theories are right on the money but 
conflicts like people are not all alike and each one has its own 
history and motivations.

As for wars generally being conducted for the purpose expanding 
spheres of influence.  Who could deny that Bin Laden has expanded 
his?  As for wishing for the wars not to be fought?  Of course we all 
wish for peace but should we apologize for defending ourselves simply 
because we are strong?   Would it be better not to try to defend 
ourselves when there are people dedicated to our destruction?

I enjoyed your post and thoughts very much.  But lest we all give in 
to the "Hamlet syndrome" it is worth considering that we Americans 
were the ones who were attacked on this particular outing and options 
for a peaceful resolution were shall we say somewhat limited from the 
beginning.
-- 


                                 Dennis Gunn
                                 Mightyjohn@...

                  check out  MIGHTY JOHN HENRY's album "hot air head"
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