The Logic Off Topic list

Dear Marvin,

Before I turn to the matter of what you said, I would first like to make a
public apology to this list for forwarding that truly ridiculous email I got
from GruvWiz. It was very wrong of me to do so. The fact that it did achieve
some kind of a positive result in that 11 of you contacted privately saying,
basically, that you were appalled and had no idea that this kind of thing
went on does not excuse the fact that I should not have forwarded it. Four
others contacted me (i.e. I had 15 emails in all) and pointed out the error
of my ways. One of you was a bit curt with me which did not go down well
with me because I was still a bit rankled at the time by that email, so I am
sorry to that person for the short shrift I gave to them and for comparing
their attitude to me to a seargeant major.

As for the rest of what you have to say, Marvin ... well ... I think you
know my position on these matters. The only way to deal with this kind of
thing is to have some kind personal integrity and forthrightness. In this
regard ... I distinctly remember reading an email from you in which you said
that you were unsubscribing and going. If so, why are you still here?

For my part, all I ever said was that I was THINKING of leaving, which was a
pefectly understandable reaction to the treatment I received from GruvWiz,
and to the singular lack of sensitivity displayed by some of the very people
you have named and to whom you have sent your email.

If ever I threaten to go then I will go. If you threaten to go and you do
not go then you are losing credibility -- and the ability to tell the truth.

This matter is pretty much dead now. Mainly because of the email people saw
from GruvWhiz, I am quite sure that everybody will take greater care in the
future, and that they will have a clearer idea where 'peoople like me' are
'coming from' when they make their objections.

Personally, Marvin, if you stick around -- which I hope -- then I will stand
shoulder to shoulder with you and make sure that there are no further
instances of this kind of idiocy on this List.

But ... your threat to leave was rendered meaningless by the fact that you
are still here. You pretended to leave and then hung around for a while to
see what would happen, and when nothing much seemed to be happening you came
back to try to make your point. You cannot make your point to people who do
not want to listen. Also, one of the things I said when I wrote to Santi
Galan, was that in my view a mistake he had made was that he had made it
nearly impossible for Phil Angus, who was clearly a basically decent person,
to apologise.

Similarly, this matter is pretty much dead now and the only way it can have
a result is in people's future behaviour. If you expect Dennis Gunn or Col
Bernau or Hendrik Jan Veenstra or anyone else you have named to come here
cap-in-hand and grovelling to either you or I to say abjectly how sorry they
are and to show how meek they are ... well ... it just ain't going to
happen.

I'll tell you what I did. I sent some of those guys a Christmas email to
wish them well and to wish them the very best. My personal opinion -- I
think they were a bit shocked at Gruv Whiz's email actually, and I do not
for a moment believe that any of them had any idea that that is the kind of
thing that I (and 'women' like Barb) have to put up with on a regular basis.
It's just no fun to walk around the streets having people telling you all
the time 'hey babe, what nice tits you've got', but it's very difficult to
explain to people that it is extremely difficult to put up with.

Marvin ... this issue is dead. Let's just move on.

Personally, I hope you stay. But never be the kind of person who threatens
to leave and then doesn't leave. You lose a good deal of inner forcefulness,
and you end up looking very silly indeed.

I do not think I am flattering myself unduly when I say that if ever I do
decide to unsubsribe because I am just way too disgusted with this bunch of
idiots, then the mere fact that I am leaving will, I think, make my point. T
hat's the kind of person I have tried to become.

I am still here because I have not quite given up hope. I am pretty close to
that point which is why I haven't gone quite yet ... but I am not there yet.

However, YOU actually threatened to leave.

If you're going to stay then stop picking on people in this way. It won't
get you what you want. It is not everybody who wants to say in public that
they have made a mistake. But ... that doesn't mean that they haven't
admitted it in private.

Please stay. And please give up on all of this. It just isn't helping. I am
still here at present. And, if you think that I am going to let them get
away with this kind of thing then you've got another think coming.

But ... if you're going to go then please stop threatening to do it and just
do it. Everybody already knows what you think and why you would really much
rather prefer not to be around. Nobody respects your reasons more than I. If
you want a better future then it is built brick by brick and slowly -- and I
will help you do it.

But if you're going to go then go. And if you're going to go then stay.

And please ... just let it rest at that ... until something else comes up
that is worth making this amount of fuss about.

GruvWiz's email to me was just wrong. Everybody knows that. My public
sending out of it was also wrong. I have acknowledged that.

Tomorrow ... I intend to make more music with Emagic Logic Audio ... and I
will also hope that I can make a few more friends from people on this list.
Even those who have basically made me feel a bit miffed by calling me a
huffy humourless drone or whatever.

That's about it now.

LET THIS END LET THIS END LET THIS END