The Logic Off Topic list

> quote from hector <Dance music is totaly preprogrammed
> most of the time and cannot be played live. Those that
> attempt to play live, offer music that is way below
> the standard of their vinyl releases thus
> dissappointing the audience...>
>
> ... you won't mind if i disagreee with you here
> hector? :)
>

Of course I don't mind!   However, in that quote I  should have said :
'...and cannot _easily_ be played live. _Most_ of those that attempt to...'

> i have seen many live techno acts and most of them
> have been extraordinary!
>

Yes, there are some that are live, and some that appear to be live.  But how
many are really live? And what is 'live' in a dance music context anyway?

> take, for instance, underworld (probably the best live
> band of this ilk that i've had the pleasure of
> seeing). they agree on an opening track before hand
> and then improvise the set-listing and the tracks as
> they go along. tracks can merge into other tracks,
> parts that were never there on the vinyl versions are
> added and the whole vibe is like nothing i've ever
> seen! no two gigs are ever the same.

Yes I have read a good Sound On Sound interview with Underworld and in it
they show off their live rig.   It cosists of  a _lot_  of gear,  requiring
roadies,   all way too expensive for the average underground producer.

> then you have people like orbital (who i saw only a
> couple of weeks ago!) who most fans would agree are
> better live than on record...

Again, bands such Orbital, the Chemicals etc... have got the money.   Even
then, when I heard the Chemicals live 2 years ago at Glastonbury I thought
they were dreadful, and nothing like their records.  Some drums and two
analogue synths being tweaked live for an hour.  About was about as
interesting as watching paint dry,  they need not have bothered.

> you might have heard of pob? (on platipus records) ...
> seen them play a blinding live set too!

Yes,  I have a few of their records.   Unless you are a close friend of them
I don't see how you can be 100% sure that they are totally live.   Bands
always say they are live.   It is very easily to create an impression of
being live by showing a sequencer with a moving time-line.   How many
bounced down audio tracks are they allowed before it is no longer live.
There could be an audio track playing the whole song bounced down,  how
would you know?   It's a damn sight less risky for them than relying wholely
on a load of midi gear.

A few years back when I was booking dj's and 'live' acts for a weekly night
at Heaven in London,  I saw loads of different ways of faking it.   These
were underground bands that did not have the money for a live midi setup,
that sounded like their records and would not fail on them.  It was and
still is just not viable unless you are one of the bigger fish.   Not a
single act I booked turned out to be totally live.   The crowd danced and a
good time was had by all.   If somebody had started running round the stage
pointing their finger shouting "Your not live! Your not live!" would anyone
in the crowd have really cared? Demanded their money back? I doubt it.
They would probably have told him to shut up and dance.   In 3 years and 150
odd acts we never received a single complaint.  Some might say it is a
deception,  but I think not.  The punters are not stupid,  most I talked
with understand that live dance music is way more difficult and fraught with
problems than with other non-programmed music styles.  Given the choice
between seeing a good dance band playing off dat/partially live and not
seeing them at all, virtually people all I am sure would choose to see them.

The only major band we had was Apollo440 and they invited themselves to
promote a new single.   I didn't really think their music was close enought
to what we usually played, but we said yes anyway.  We didn't have to pay
them and they were only doing 2 songs.   I can tell you half of Sony Music's
technical division came down.   The stage was _full_ of gear,  the
dancefloor, which is not big,  had a huge engineers platform in the middle,
snakes all over the floor.  All that money and manpower just for 2 songs
that turned out to be less than impressive.  Even the sound quality was no
better than any of our other bands.

> honourable mentions also go out to spooky, system 7
> (who improvise guitar and synths whilst dj-ing),
> pychick warriors of gaia, fluke, speedy j, the aloof,
> red snapper and many more.

The odd live synth noise, allows the band to say they play some live synths.
A few drum pads and a guitar are also common ways of boosting 'live'
credibilty.   Those big fish bands you list above will have varying degrees
of liveness, but there is no clear distintion between what is truly live and
what is not.  Does a couple of improvised instruments over a backing track
constitute 'live'?

So to sum up:
All dance bands want in their hearts to play live.   A lot can't because
they do not have the resources/roadies for a big, reliable and musicaly
faithful rig.  A lot of bands are in that grey area inbetween bounced audio
track/DAT and midi/live instruments.
Whatever they are doing, only a po-faced party-pooper would go round
scrutinising their rigs and kicking up a fuss.

regards Hector.