The Logic Off Topic list

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dennis Gunn" <mightyjohn@...>
To: <logic-ot@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2001 9:13 PM
Subject: Re: [L-OT] guitar gods


> At 7:21 PM -0700 6/24/01, Wilson Zorn wrote:
> >I know by now someone's said this but I can't restrain - what does making
it
> >big have to do with how "rocking" something is?
>
> It has quite a lot to do with it actually and BTW it's the other way
> around, what rocks becomes popular.  But even if you don't agree with
> public opinion since there is no other objective measure it has to
> serve as a basis to make the observation.
>

We're talking about art and emotion I thought - I never knew that we
measured that other than in subjective terms.

> >As to guitar being more intrinsically rocking than keyboards - I think
that
> >depends on your definiton of what rocking means.  In the more
conventional
> >rock genre definition, I think by that very definition it will be.  But
on
> >the other hand I would personally find something like a Chemical Brothers
> >piece or specifically Schooly D's "PSK - What Does it Mean?" or many
Public
> >Enemy songs as rocking as anything by the Who or Kinks or Sex Pistols.
>
> I suppose it also depends on what your definition of "live
> performance" is. Part of what made guitar the perfect rocking weapon
> for so long is that it was so easy to learn play a creditable
> danceable tune on it.  It just is not as easy to do that on
> traditional, non-sampling, non-sequenced keyboards.  The times they
> are a changing.  Now people like Public Enemy can do it even more
> easily and sell millions just by  pushing one key on a keyboard and
> playing... uh, guess what, a sample of a Joe Perry Guitar riff.
>

If you're talking about pushing one key on a keyboard you don't know much
about good sampling artists.  Like Coldcut - I don't think that's about
pushing one key on a keyboard.  And they do it quite well live, combining
turntables, samples, synths and with flexibility and sometimes rocking
appeal.  And more often, I would readily admit, dancing appeal.

Also, I think all of my examples have done very rocking pieces without using
guitar riffs/samples of any kind.

> >Hmmm, I think that the whole virtuoso machismo "I'm-better-than-you"
> >mentality is what has turned me off to a lot of mainstream guitarists,
> >particularly the flashy ones.
>
> Everyone is competing in some way however subtle.  I always laugh
> when artists or media people deny that.  Did you ever see John
> Lennon's interview with the great unintentional comic Tom Snyder?  It
> was hilarious.  Lennon having nothing left to prove laid it out it in
> a very simple self effacing manner "we all get in it for the girls"
> which was followed by about 3 minutes of indignant sanctimonious
> denials and declarations of high motives from Tom Snyder.
>

I wouldn't necessarily disagree with any of your specific points but to say
that I am saying it's the non-subtle stuff that turns me off.  However, I'm
not really sure everyone is competing depending on how broadly or narrowly
you define "compete".

> >Since I don't intend to reproduce, maybe
> >that's why given this line of thought...
>
> What we're talking about here is getting laid.  Do you actually think
> of making babies when you have sex?  I know *I* don't.
>

Yeah but I think the reproductive root desire *may* fuel the more unsubtle
competitive aspects - while just getting laid is relatively easy.  Purely
theoretical; it could also be of course merely that the reproductive root is
simply deferred to the more so-called "purely artistic" aspirations of some
artists.

>
> >How about Johnny Ramone!?
>
> Aren't you thinking of Joey?

Why would I think of Joey when talking about guitar?  Joey only played
guitar for the Ramones very early on, that I know of.  As far as I know 99%
(if not 100%) of the recorded output on guitar in the Ramones was by Johnny.
I've often viewed his work, however completely minimal, as pivotal to modern
guitar play (particularly when viewing bands like Sonic Youth and My Bloody
Valentine) as Chuck Berry.

> --
>
>
>                                  Dennis Gunn
>                                  Mightyjohn@...
>
>                   check out  MIGHTY JOHN HENRY's album "hot air head"
>                                                     info at
>                         http://www.twics.com/~mightyjo/home.html
>
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