The Logic Off Topic list

>Re: [L-OT] guitar gods
>
>  >   From: Dennis Gunn <mightyjohn@...>
>
>  >You see competition as a negative thing.  Wrong.
>  >
>  >Without it we would never get anywhere.
>
>  Hogwash...... I've come realize (in my later years :-) that the above
>  attitude is actually a dead end street. There are many fine places one can go
>  sans a competitive outlook.

Sure, but the top of a given field is not usually one of them.


>  Yeah, and what a commercial, slick and shallow world it's become.
>  (generally speaking)

As opposed to...?

>    From: Kool Musick <koolmusick@...>

>  >Guitarists are competitive. They strive to inspire each other and outdo
>  >each other. 'To compete' -- to strive consciously or unconsciously for an
>  >objective.
>
>  To outdo each other...? c'mon Kool man, this reads like a bad movie script.
>  The type of competition that's based of ego completely destroys the music
>  for me. I play in a guitar quartet, when we're competing we generally
>  suck bad, the idea is to play for something bigger than oneself.
>
>  Hmmm.. that sounds like a bad movie script too!
>
>  howard


You have raised an strong objection but have put forth no logic to 
support it.  You (and Wilson Zorn as well) basically seem to take 
issue with the idea of competition as a productive motivation and as 
such of no interest to you and yet you have absolutely nothing to 
gain from your objections but the (as of yet un-obtained) 
satisfaction of seeing your ideas prevail over mine.  In other words 
you are taking a position in a debate which you presumably hope to 
win, but who's outcome is of no consequence beyond the mutual 
amusement we share in pitting our ideas against each other, and yet 
the very position you are taking is an attempt to deny your interest 
the concept of competition.

Is that irony or what?

At 6:54 AM +0000 6/26/01,Wilson Zorn wrote:
>I don't see Einstein as in competition with
>Newton - or in his case even his peers, at least in terms of seeking a prize
>or seeking something exclusive.  Some scientists have been in competition
>with others in that fashion, both in ways I see as good and ways I see as
>bad.  Sagan went out of his way to demerit peers and politic ceaselessly, in
>my opinion eroding good science, wasting time, and just plain being a jerk.
>On the other hand, while Gallo may have made many mistakes, his clearly
>competitive spirit has not impaired in my opinion good science and sharing
>of information.  And another contemporary scientists, E. O. Wilson, has not
>exhibited a competitive spirit in the scientific pursuits, working closely
>in all sorts of collaborations and sharing research as freely as academia
>permits.

Wrong tack to take.  Competition pervades almost every aspect 
scientific endeavor.  For example if someone wants to use a particle 
accelerator or big telescope for something they are working on they 
have to compete in order to earn time on the machine.  The 
competition entails submitting their theories and abstract of the 
experiment to a review board who will then compare it to other 
competing projects and on the basis of relative merit give it a yes 
or no and/or assign it priority.

Even if a scientist somehow completes a paper without ever competing 
for funds to do the research, upon publication the paper is submitted 
to peer review, AKA "the shoot out" in which scientists with 
competing theories attempt to knock it down with their own ideas.  It 
is an intense competition whose ultimate prize is the right to claim 
to posterity to have been the one to have discovered or contributed 
to the discovery of a fundamental truth.  The process whether you 
think it's "good" or not is one of the fundamental building blocks of 
modern science and Einstein was very much a participant.

Furthermore competition does not preclude cooperation with your 
competitors.  It's particularly true in the sciences.  It's even true 
in sports.  As I mentioned earlier I play racquetball and one of the 
interesting and more difficult aspects of the sport is the degree of 
high speed cooperation it takes to clear the way for your opponent to 
take his shot and to keep from hurting each other when you are 
hitting a ball 300 kmh inside a 12 X 6 X 6 meter room.   Competitors 
in all fields often train the very people who end up beating them at 
some point and usually they are proud of it.  But then I guess pride 
is supposed to be bad too.


Anyway this "sad f***er" ,  because of his destructively competitive 
attitude has been asked to put his pathetically unoriginal and 
derivative guitar on another misguided soul's album for the next few 
days and after that do some sequencing and vocal work for educational 
TV so I guess he is finished with this thread.

It's been fun and thanks y'all.
-- 


                                 Dennis Gunn
                                 Mightyjohn@...

                  check out  MIGHTY JOHN HENRY's album "hot air head"
                                                    info at
                        http://www.twics.com/~mightyjo/home.html