The Logic Off Topic list

Thoughts from the mind of Dennis Gunn, 27-06-2001:
[to Howard]
>You have raised an strong objection but have put forth no logic to
>support it.  You (and Wilson Zorn as well) basically seem to take
>issue with the idea of competition as a productive motivation and as
>such of no interest to you and yet you have absolutely nothing to
>gain from your objections but the (as of yet un-obtained)
>satisfaction of seeing your ideas prevail over mine.  In other words
>you are taking a position in a debate which you presumably hope to
>win, but who's outcome is of no consequence beyond the mutual
>amusement we share in pitting our ideas against each other, and yet
>the very position you are taking is an attempt to deny your interest
>the concept of competition.
>
>Is that irony or what?

No, worse, it's misleading.  It's _you_ who, in the above posting, 
defines this thread to be a "debate", and by using such words you put 
it in the competition area -- from which all the rest of this 
pointless post follows.  The only conclusion the follows from the 
above, as far as I can see, as that indeed you view any contribution 
that's not in line with your own thoughts on the subject as 
"competition".

If this thread is just an exchange of thoughts, and nothing more (as 
I'd perceived it to be up till now), then Howard's contribution is 
not geared towards winning a debate or seeing ones ideas prevail over 
another.  There was no competition involved, until you defined it to 
be so.  If someone writes "in my experience there are vast areas 
where competition plays no role" (or words to that effect), is he 
then competing with anyone?  No, he's just sharing his life's 
experience and the outlook of life he's gained over the years.  You 
may agree or disagree, that's not relevant.

As a teacher, and being twice as old as my students, I often share my 
view of things with them.  Not in order to win a debate (how easy 
that would be, and how cheap), and not in order to convince them of 
something (too often rather pointless with 18-year olds).  The sole 
objective is to plant maybe a single sensible idea in the head of 1 
or 2 students, hoping that some day they'll think of what I said, and 
think "oh, HJ didn't have such bad ideas back then" -- maybe sparing 
them just a tiny bit of suffering or pain or disappointment. 
Competition plays no role there.  After all, wouldn't it be pathetic 
for a 38-year old to comete with 18-year olds?

>I guess he is finished with this thread.
>
>It's been fun and thanks y'all.

Ditto.


cheers,
HJ
-- 
     Hendrik Jan Veenstra
     email: mailto:h@...
     www:   http://www.ision.nl/users/h/index.html