The Logic Off Topic list

Thoughts from the mind of Dennis Gunn, 28-06-2001:

>  >>Is that irony or what?
>>
>>No, worse, it's misleading.  It's _you_ who, in the above posting,
>>defines this thread to be a "debate", and by using such words you put
>>it in the competition area -- from which all the rest of this
>>pointless post follows.  The only conclusion the follows from the
>>above, as far as I can see, as that indeed you view any contribution
>>that's not in line with your own thoughts on the subject as
>>"competition".
>
>So you're you're a teacher?  Look in a dictionary.  The first entry
>in Websters New World says to debate is"to discuss opposing reasons".
>When Howard weighed in with "Hogwash...." he was taking an opposing
>point of view if there ever was one.

In everyday language, a "debate" is more competitive and more geared 
towards winning than an "exchange of thoughts" is.  I don't care what 
the dictionary says.  Howard expressed a point of view.  That might 
as well be with the intention to "exchange thoughts" as with the 
intention to "argue differing viewpoints with the hope of winning". 
 From his post I can only conclude the former was his intention, while 
you make it sound as if the latter was.

While everybody praised the Good of Competition, all Howard did was 
say "I've come to realise over the years that it's actually possible 
to do things without competition playing a role".  And now you say 
that he's _debating_ his point of view, and suggesting that this too 
is competition, with the intention of winning???  I don't even know 
what to say to that as it's too bizarre...

>  >After all, wouldn't it be pathetic
>>for a 38-year old to comete with 18-year olds?
>
>It would be particularly pathetic if the 18 year old looked in a 
>dictionary whupped the 38 year olds butt. 

Oh, very strong argument...

>By the way do you teach spelling?

Ah, even stronger!  Way to go...

In case you _really_ don't get it:
1) Trying to live a life outside the LUG, I sometimes hurry, and 
mistype a word.  Slip of the finger. Familiar?
2) I'm Dutch.  I think my command of the English language compares 
favorably (without a 'u', as in UK-spelling) to that of some native 
English speakers.  How's your Dutch nowadays?
3) I teach mathematics.

>I am particularly reminded of the following true story:
>[...]
>So the next week when my favorite 3rd grade teacher told us that
>gravity was the result of the earth spinning.  I kind of decided I
>knew about all  I wanted to know to about teachers and started trying
>to concentrate on getting information from other sources.

And I once heard a guy claim he was a great guitarist, but he 
couldn't distinguish a C major from a Esus4, and he couldn't play 
s***.  Since then I've only listened to keyboard music.

>Maybe your *refusal* to debate your students is pathetic.  Maybe they
>are worthy of a little more respect and a little less condescension.
>The teachers I respected, and there were some, were not quite as
>eager as you appear to be to dismiss the idea that an 18 year old
>might actually know something a 38 year old didn't.

I wonder, is the ability to read something you learn over the years, 
or is it something you're born with...?  I'm not even going to argue 
about this, as it's too silly to be worthy of my time.  But let me 
assure you that generally I respect my students and they respect me. 
In the yearly "poll" I consistently come out as one of the more 
popular teachers, both from a teaching perspective and from a 
personal perspective.  And I'm the only teacher who still has regular 
contacts with ex-students, and whose ex-students (some of them, not 
all of course) still come over at my place to have a beer from time 
to time.

But hey, that's what you get when you adopt a condescending attitude, 
and don't respect them.  I can live with that, I truly can...

>Hey wow I still remember something I learned 34 years ago!!

Yeah...


cheese,
HJ

-- 
     Hendrik Jan Veenstra
     email: mailto:h@...
     www:   http://www.ision.nl/users/h/index.html