The Logic Off Topic list

>He is not blaming Joeri because Joeri is blameless.
>When there's more than one person doing something; indeed, when there's
>quite a few people doing something; then it's a bit stupid to compile a
>list of 'offending' individuals. What it really needs, as with any group,
>is for each individual to consider whether or not they, personally, have
>made a contribution to the situation.

I quite agree Joeri is blameless. I never said he was to blame. He was
moaning about the content of the list. Joeri is in charge. one and one makes
two. I am not complaining about the list.

>Since you want 'personal', I remember an incident involving you, not that
>long ago, which would have been over in an instant if you had just rapidly
>apologized for an off-the-cuff remark that you had made. Instead, you got
>all defensive; it dragged on for weeks; and you only ended up doing anyway
>what it was always obvious you would do ... which was apologize for the
>fact that someone who didn't have your command of English had taken a
>typically 'British English' 100% ironic remark completely the wrong way.
>Fact is, the LUG member concerned DID take what you said the wrong way, and
>by far the best way to have handled things then would have been simply for
>you to have accepted, right from the outset, that that person had every
>right not to know English as well as you did and so to respond to the
>surface character of your remark and not to its deep implication. Might
>have been obvious to YOU it was a joke, but it wasn't obvious to that
>member. Next time this happens, please apologise faster. Immediately even,
>OK? Would save the rest of us an AWFUL lot of aggravation and having to
>wade through more pointless emails. Since we're talking 'personal' here.
>Personal is what you wanted, wasn't it? Even more so, do what you seem to
>have done ever since which is to watch it with those kinds of remarks.


What makes you think I want personal? What is this all about? So now you
want to get personal.

This actually is total bollocks. You obviously don't remember as clearly as
you claim. I made a remark which was a joke. People took it the wrong way
and a small few jumped on the bandwagon in a barriage of attack. I was very
quick to point out that whilst it was a joke, it could have been said in a
more clear way, and I recognised the only reason why everyone got angry
(well actually not everyone but a few) was due to my carelessness (I should
have known that people who don't speak perfect English would read it
differently) and I corrected it quickly. Effing weeks! I was relatively new
to the list at that stage and it takes a while to get used to it and the way
to make a point clearly. I don't know how you have got the nerve to bring
that up again. The thread may have gone on for DAYS not weeks as you so very
carefully exaggerate, but only after my point was cleared. And, yes I
apologised, should have apologised, and the rest of it for not realizing
that I should have known someone who doesn't have my command of English
would have taken it the wrong way (how the hell could I know that I ask
myself), but did I get an apology from anyone who realized afterwards they
had misunderstood? All I got left with was the feeling I'd done something
terrible which bloody aggravated me. I got called all sorts of bloody names,
and it effing rankled me, so don't drag up that crap again.

>Speaking personally, when I see someone refer to someone else as a $##$er
>for no good reason I can see, I think that person is entitled to take that
>remark personally, and I also wonder what on earth is the point in saying
>it. Frankly, I have zero interest in watching the party of the first part
>trying to humiliate the party of the second part in public in this childish
>kind of way. Let them go duke it out in a succession of private emails and
>then come back when it's all over.

You must be incredibly laid back and always in control of your emotions.

>It is also remarkable, on this list, how the same TEDIOUS subjects (don't
>even get me started on mentioning them) come up time and time and time
>again with exactly the same smart-aleck remarks being made about them by
>often the same people.
>Yes and huge long replies on the list.

People come, people go, they may be tedious to you but they are virgin to a
newcomer.

>Why do you feel you have to leave with such words?
>Because he is doing what YOU recommended.
>Speaking with passion and emotion.
>About something that he cares about.
>Much like I am now.

I don't doubt he was a valuable member. I just personally would rather go
out with a smile, rather than one big negative. If and when I leave the list
for whatever reason, shall I deliver a great negative speach about how the
list is declining, or shall I thank everyone for their help and leave with a
smile.

>Well ... probably he was hoping that he would get his point across and
>change things for the better.

>If the following is the description of Fernando's post that you are
>alluding to, then I have to ask: does it make YOU feel better when YOU post
>idiotic remarks and pointless one-liners that others regard as 100% stupid
>and time-wasting and that seem to serve no good purpose except to inflate
>your own ego and to make YOU feel better? (Of course, and unlike me whose
>information about Logic Audio 4.x is very limited, you also post some good
>stuff and you have given me some great tips for which I thank you. I also
>hope that this post of mine does not make YOU feel like leaving, either).

No I don't. I don't post anything to feel big. I post because I either feel
it's humorous at the time or I feel strongly about something, or it's
relative to something or very occasionally something original!. It's a
discussion for heavens sake not a computerised database. I would be rather
worried if I suddenly realized posting to the list was some sort of ego
boost!

>Because, obviously, this was not enough for him.

So it's best to sour the list with these, I've had enough postings. Why did
he not simply email Joeri privately if he wanted to better the list as you
suggest.

>Please come back, Fernando. You probably did not learn anything from me,
>but I learned a great deal from you; and I would like to keep doing so.

I am sad he's gone too. I also feel sad that he felt the need to go out with
that attitude. It's my opinion. I'm not asking you to agree with it but I
don't expect you to start dragging up the past in some sort of backlash when
nothing was directed towards you in the first place, especially as your
information is greatly exaggerated, and your example was based on a big
misunderstanding which at the end of the day was only due to multi language
interpretation. I've already explained all this, why am I bothering to do it
again?

I don't feel the need to send this to the list, so it's gone OT

And just so you know exactly what I am saying so there can be no doubt, It
was not a personal attack against the man, only the action.

I do not blame a list decline on Joeri as I don't agree it is in decline.

There are a lot of OTs, but as so many have said before, the laziness of
some peoples posts are far worse than a nice neat and tidy, easy to see,
easy to destroy OT will ever be.

I am against personal attacks as well, certainly of the sort you describe,
but I don't claim to be perfect and I try not to be hypocritical.

An argument, or disagreement can be quite healthy in many ways.

Above all, I hate racism, and was glad to see the back of you know who.

I've had my say, that's it. I'm not angry, another day, another dollar.

Phil

 > Adam Pendse wrote:
 > Dear Emagic,
 >
 > Could u fix it for me to release LA 5 this week?
 > The natives are getting restless.

PS Yes well, the real postings about this will be starting soon!