The Logic Off Topic list

> Subject: Re: Re: OT Goodbye
> 
> 
> 
>> From: Teddy Kumpel <kumpkin@...>
>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I am American... but I am not represented by my own government in the
>>>> least.
>> 
>>> marc lindahl <marc@...>
>>> Did you vote in the last election?
>> 
>> are you going to say something aggressive after I answer?
> 
> It's a simple yes or no question... in some countries, you know you're
> represented by your goverment because of your social status, caste, or
> political affiliations.  In the USA, you know you're represented when you
> vote.  People here no longer get killed for voting, so there's no reason not
> to do it.  I'm just wondering, when you claim not to be represented, whether
> you tried to be or not, or pursued other avenues of representation.  Should
> I assume by your answer that you didn't vote?  After all, like free speech,
> it's your right in the US.

Hi Marc,

your answer was more sensible than I imagined it would be. I commend you for
that and I will punish myself for assuming that you would be aggressive.

I always vote. I tried really hard to be represented. I write letters to my
congress-people regularly.

I do not believe my candidate had a chance to have his platform properly
heard by the American people because the 2 major party candidates were so
heavily funded by corporate interests as to cancel out any chance of anyone
else being a credible winner in the race. I say, down with the 2 party
system... but the 2 parties in question are in control, so when is that
going to happen? It's all a big sham this freedom thing... we are free....
to vote for one of 2 "moderate" candidates who more or less agree with each
other in that they are willing to take bribes from corporate interests.

Teed Keempeel

> From: Teddy Kumpel <kumpkin@...>
> 
> I do not believe my candidate had a chance to have his platform properly
> heard by the American people because the 2 major party candidates were so
> heavily funded by corporate interests as to cancel out any chance of anyone
> else being a credible winner in the race.

As you well know, candidates often make noise about campaign finance reform
until they get elected.

> I say, down with the 2 party
> system... but the 2 parties in question are in control, so when is that
> going to happen? 

Sorry, but though I object to the implementation, I don't object to the
design... we occasionally have a 'crossfade' era of 3 parties, but I think
there's a good argument that a two party system brings stability.  Look at
the countries with multiple parties, and the flips and twists they go thru
to build coalitions... I think the people's voice is more likely to get lost
among the fights between the parties...


> From: Teddy Kumpel <kumpkin@...>
>
> seems America's "New War" is pitting these 2 factions against each other to
> me. The Islamic extremists meets the Patriotic American Christian right.

Sure, the Right Wing is having a field day, but let's face it, the vast
majority of more level headed Americans support the basic thrust of Bush's
current strategy.

I personally have no problem with what he says he's going to do, I think
it's a good way to go.  What worries me, is what he's not saying, or what
might happen behind the scenes, by folks with other agendas, taking
advantage of the situation (like some on this OT list).  For example,
collecting information on innocent (but perhaps not politically aligned)
people in the name of this manhunt, or innocent people's bank records, etc.
Then we'd be back to the J. Edgar Hoover days.  But I think it's a matter of
'trust, but verify' as the Soviets used to say.  Let them do their thing,
but keep an eye on 'em.


> Did anyone notice that Bush said at his congressional speech, that felt a
> little too much like a Hitler rally, that the terrorists hate the US because
> we are free?

I think that's going a little far.  Have you ever watched a film of a Hitler
rally, and listened to what he says (or a translation)?  There's no pretense
of civility toward certain peoples in those old speeches.  No comparison.

> what a load of malarky. they hate us for a lot of reasons, but
> that is about as far from the real reason as you can get. I certainly don't
> condone what they did to my NYC skyline but how silly can Bush be? The great
> American Snow-job has started... see it on CNN.

There's definitely some snowing... but what also doesn't help is the media's
trend toward shorter and shorter sound bites, which in turn causes the
speech writers to write speeches with no compound sentences or big words...
but in general, if you consider that part of our freedom is freedom of
religion, then I think Bin Laden does hate us for that.  How much more could
Bush say in 5 seconds, to deliver a more subtle point (assuming of course,
he could pronounce the words!)