The Logic Off Topic list

Sasha wrote:
>To the Pupkid:
>I can perfectly understand your initial comment and IMO sometimes there's no
>need to apologize for some comments, even if they used a bit more drastical
>language. Sometimes they even may be posted to this list. Otherwise some
>poeple apparently will never get it.
Michael wrote :
>However I'm glad you wrote what I intended but didn't do (but now am
>doing nevertheless by making this reply public).

While I don't mind these attacks, I don't think these things are 
appropriate, and should not be condoned or encouraged. I think its 
complete bullshit that you three  claim to be the champions of oppressed 
women when no harm has been done to any woman, no insult has been made, 
......  meanwhile you engage in this nasty attacks on a real human being 
with righteous justification. Shame on all of you hypocrites! 

>To GAmoore:
>Of course it was pretty obvious from the first second that your posting was
>meant as a joke, but then, why in the world did I get pissed as well?

Because you had a knee jerk reaction. You have had some bad experiences 
in your own life, and you used the first opportunity to overreact.

>Isn't it that such "jokes" are just almost as bad as if you would've been
>serious? I mean, the fact alone that jokes are made at the cost of women
>should be enough to make one think about it.

I don't think anything I said 'was at the expense of women'. Any man in 
any relationship with any woman is going to have some sources of 
attraction and admiration. Is to speak of such things an insult to women? 
If so, you better tell them because they are spending fortunes on 
clothes, hairstyling, jewelry, and plastic surgery to be attractive - and 
thats not my idea or wish, thats reality.

>Of course one could do so, but did YOU do in the first place?
>No! Why?
>Because the "average" man still prefers to do sexist jokes about women,
>sexist jokes about men just don't look like the "real deal".

I get a bunch of jokes via email too, which I forwarded to some 
co-workers. One of the jokes had something about women which one of the 
women didn't like. However, I noticed that, among sexist jokes, more 
often MEN are the butt of the jokes. She didn't object or see anything 
wrong with the jokes about men. And somehow that is 'alright' in today's 
society to joke about men being stupid, useless, etc. But if you should 
are make such a joke about women, heaven help you! Its not equity or 
equality, its a double standard. I see it not only in jokes, but also in 
the sitcoms and comics on tv, and so forth. 

>These things are exactly why it's still like Pupkid described - there's
>hardly any women in important positions, especially in the music business.

What does have to do with my comments? 

>Most likely they are singers (often only because of the good old "sex sells"
>thing) or doing mediocre jobs, to say the least.

Blame all the customers who buy these things then. Don't blame me for 
that.

>I clearly know that such things exist on a very broad base, even the most
>"emancipated" men pretty often turn into machos once there's an opportunity,
>especially in the music biz. I know that from personal experience as I have
>been touring, recording and dealing with some sorts of other things for
>years.

Are you speaking of yourself? Someone was just saying (on the OT list) 
that women are not treated well in Germany and ironically two of you are 
German. Whatever your personal agendas, I don't really care. Please don't 
extrapolate your phobias onto me or others. You've clearly got some 
passionate views, perhaps due to some bad experiences you have witnessed, 
but don't overreact like fools.

>the guys are starting with their "Oh man, what a f***** hot b***h, let's see
>if we can get her today!". 

Is that anything near to what I said? No. Please, leave the clouds and 
come back down to earth.

>Actually those kinda jokes aren't far away from racism when you do
>them in the public

What a load of horseshit! Get a grip on reality man. 

If you, or anyone else has anything to say about this, take it to the OT 
list.