The Logic Off Topic list

>Someone mentioned Joe Zawinul? Man, we are talking the godfather of cheesy
sounds here. They need to learn from other people, like these rock dudes
like Tony Banks from Genesis or from industrial guys like Trent Reznor. It's
like these rock dudes don't know to play that great( although Tony Banks
aint that bad a player), but know what sound to use to fit in well.
>

I think Tony Banks is the only keys player that can be compared with the
jazz guys at least in compositional terms (harmonies...). And I think you're
rigth that the rock keyboardists use to get the rigth sounds, but with a
poor playing level...how curious.

Thoughts from the mind of Santi Galán, 06-12-2001:

>I think Tony Banks is the only keys player that can be compared with the
>jazz guys at least in compositional terms (harmonies...).

Somehow TB never managed to impress me that much...

>And I think you're rigth that the rock keyboardists use to get the 
>rigth sounds, but with a poor playing level...how curious.

Emerson?  Wakeman?  Poor players...? :-)

-- 
Hendrik Jan Veenstra  <h@knoware.nl>
Omega Art: http://www.ision.nl/users/h/index.html

Hendrik Jan Veenstra wrote:

>  Thoughts from the mind of Santi Gal\ufffdn, 06-12-2001:
>
> >I think Tony Banks is the only keys player that can be compared with
> the
> >jazz guys at least in compositional terms (harmonies...).
>
> Somehow TB never managed to impress me that much...
>
> >And I think you're rigth that the rock keyboardists use to get the
> >rigth sounds, but with a poor playing level...how curious.
>
> Emerson?  Wakeman?  Poor players...? :-)
>
> --

Maybe it's more to do with production ideology. Maybe the rock guys have
more sweetening applied in the production process, and the jazz guys
want to retain as much as they can of the original performance.


my 0.02 worth

Dave Eager

>Hendrik Jan Veenstra wrote:
>
>>   Thoughts from the mind of Santi Galán, 06-12-2001:
>>
>>  >I think Tony Banks is the only keys player that can be compared with
>>  the
>>  >jazz guys at least in compositional terms (harmonies...).
>>
>>  Somehow TB never managed to impress me that much...
>>
>>  >And I think you're rigth that the rock keyboardists use to get the
>>  >rigth sounds, but with a poor playing level...how curious.
>>
>>  Emerson?  Wakeman?  Poor players...? :-)
>>
>>  --
>
>Maybe it's more to do with production ideology. Maybe the rock guys have
>more sweetening applied in the production process, and the jazz guys
>want to retain as much as they can of the original performance.

As frank zappa put it.  Rock is less composition and more feel and 
Timbre oriented music than other genres.  It only makes sense that 
rock musicians are better at crafting sounds.  That's what drives the 
genre.

Of course all this assumes that Herbie's sounds truly are inferior 
and not exactly what he was looking for artistically.  Which is 
somewhat unprovable.

>Thoughts from the mind of Santi Gal\ufffdn, 06-12-2001:

>I think Tony Banks is the only keys player that can be compared with the
>jazz guys at least in compositional terms (harmonies...).

>>Somehow TB never managed to impress me that much...

I guess it's a matter of personal taste...

>And I think you're rigth that the rock keyboardists use to get the
>rigth sounds, but with a poor playing level...how curious.

>>Emerson?  Wakeman?  Poor players...? :-)

Oh, sure... fast scales and arpeggios with some bluesy licks here and
there...well, I'd never compare them with people like Corea, Hancock,
Rubalcaba, Zawinul...They're just in another level...
Anyway, I'm a big fan of ELP, Yes, Genesis...and have had many many musical
trips with their albums, but not because of the skills of the keyboard
parts, but of the concept and the imagination these groups demonstrated with
their works...

Thoughts from the mind of Santi Galán, 08-12-2001:

>  >Thoughts from the mind of Santi Galán, 06-12-2001:
>
>>I think Tony Banks is the only keys player that can be compared with the
>>jazz guys at least in compositional terms (harmonies...).
>
>>>Somehow TB never managed to impress me that much...
>
>I guess it's a matter of personal taste...

Of course it is.

>  >And I think you're rigth that the rock keyboardists use to get the
>>rigth sounds, but with a poor playing level...how curious.
>
>>>Emerson?  Wakeman?  Poor players...? :-)
>
>Oh, sure... fast scales and arpeggios with some bluesy licks here and
>there...well, I'd never compare them with people like Corea, Hancock,
>Rubalcaba, Zawinul...They're just in another level...

Uhm... I would already be very happy if I reached the level of 
Wakeman :-).  I don't think you do these guys justice by discarding 
their playing as "fast arpeggios with bluesy licks".  I've seen 
Wakeman do things, technically, that Corea or Zawinul can only dream 
of.  Of course Wakeman isn't very brilliant _musically_ (as opposed 
to e.g. Corea) -- I think almost anything he composed rather sucks -- 
but we were talking about _playing level_ here, which is a somewhat 
technical approach, and in that respect not many can beat Wakeman, I 
think.

>Anyway, I'm a big fan of ELP, Yes, Genesis...and have had many many musical
>trips with their albums, but not because of the skills of the keyboard
>parts, but of the concept and the imagination these groups demonstrated with
>their works...

Agreed.  Although I still wonder how ELP as a 3-man band managed to 
make more noise than is explained by the number of people... :-)


cheers,
HJ
-- 
Hendrik Jan Veenstra  <h@knoware.nl>
Omega Art: http://www.ision.nl/users/h/index.html

----- Original Message -----

From: "Hendrik Jan Veenstra" <h@...>
To: <logic-ot@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 9:39 AM
Subject: Re: [L-OT] Re: [LUG] Indeed, OT: Herbie Hancock



>Uhm... I would already be very happy if I reached the level of
Wakeman :-).  I don't think you do these guys justice by discarding
their playing as "fast arpeggios with bluesy licks".  I've seen
Wakeman do things, technically, that Corea or Zawinul can only dream
of.

I think this can be a discussion about gymnastics instead of music, I
mean...I never get impressed by simple speed, without much musical meaning
underlying. Probably the worst show I went the las ten years was the show of
Wakeman with his son...absolutely sad an boring!!!

>Of course Wakeman isn't very brilliant _musically_ (as opposed
to e.g. Corea) -- I think almost anything he composed rather sucks --

Couldn't agree more!!!

Cheers

Thoughts from the mind of Santi Galán, 08-12-2001:

>From: "Hendrik Jan Veenstra" <h@...>
>>Uhm... I would already be very happy if I reached the level of
>>Wakeman :-).  I don't think you do these guys justice by discarding
>>their playing as "fast arpeggios with bluesy licks".  I've seen
>>Wakeman do things, technically, that Corea or Zawinul can only dream
>>of.
>
>I think this can be a discussion about gymnastics instead of music, I
>mean...I never get impressed by simple speed, without much musical meaning
>underlying.

Yeah, but _you_ were the one talking about a "poor playing level", 
and that's what I was responding to.

Besides, I must admit that sometimes I _am_ in the mood to be 
impressed by pure virtuosity.  Not often, but when the cosmos is 
right and the stars are aligned...

>Probably the worst show I went the las ten years was the show of
>Wakeman with his son...absolutely sad an boring!!!

But if you ever heard his solo records, why would you still bother 
going to his concerts?


cheers,
HJ
-- 
Hendrik Jan Veenstra  <h@...>
Omega Art: http://www.ision.nl/users/h/index.html

----- Original Message -----

From: "Hendrik Jan Veenstra" <h@...>
To: <logic-ot@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 9:15 AM
Subject: Re: [L-OT] Re: [LUG] Indeed, OT: Herbie Hancock


>Santi Gal\ufffdn said:
>Probably the worst show I went the las ten years was the show of
>Wakeman with his son...absolutely sad an boring!!!

Hendrik's answer:
>>But if you ever heard his solo records, why would you still bother
>>going to his concerts?

Oh, well...I guess I just couldn't resist to shake hands with the man who
recorded Close to the Edge, Fragile, Tales from Topographic Oceans...we
could talk with him backstage, and he was a very nice person, with the
biggest hands I ever seen!!!

cheers,
Santi

Thoughts from the mind of Santi Galán, 09-12-2001:

>  >Santi Galán said:
>>Probably the worst show I went the las ten years was the show of
>>Wakeman with his son...absolutely sad an boring!!!
>
>Hendrik's answer:
>>>But if you ever heard his solo records, why would you still bother
>>>going to his concerts?
>
>Oh, well...I guess I just couldn't resist to shake hands with the man who
>recorded Close to the Edge, Fragile, Tales from Topographic Oceans...we
>could talk with him backstage, and he was a very nice person, with the
>biggest hands I ever seen!!!

Ah... the tempation of being able to be close to fame...  Hoping some 
of it will rub off on you... :-)

Some years back I had the opportunity to have dinner with Peter 
Hammill (of solo- and Van Der Graaf Generator fame) -- probably no.1 
in my top 10 of musical heroes of all times.  Needless to say these 4 
hours are now a fond memory...  Also a very nice person -- and one of 
the thinnest I've ever seen :-).


tata,
HJ
-- 
Hendrik Jan Veenstra  <h@...>
Omega Art: http://www.ision.nl/users/h/index.html