The Logic Off Topic list

>FYI I bought Logic Audio Platinum 4.x recently.. I just printed out the
>Logic Readme that lists all the updates and bug fixes since 4.0, and with
>very small margins and a size-10 font it was still 50 pages worth of bug
>fixes, new features, etc. 50 pages. And who knows how many more pages it
>would take to describe the difference between 3.72 and 4.0... As well as 4.8
>and 5.0.. At *least* another 50 pages if not many times more. 

Okay, FYI, I bought Logic Audio Platinum 2.0, back in the day.  I work with
version 4, and own version 3.7.2 here at home.  But it is traditional that
Software companies fix problems for FREE.  This IS how Software companies
operate.  If you bought Firestone tires, you would want them to recall the
tires, if they are faulty and that cost would fall on them, not you the
consumer.  If you go to a mechanic to fix your car, an the person screw up,
you take it back, and they fix the issue at no cost to you.  Again, faulty
products the responsibility to business, not the consumer.

So, now exclude the Bug fixes.  And only add in the new feature...which were
in fact more bug fixes and really not all that impressive, when one thinks
of other software that is out there.  This really depends on the level you
are working with Logic...right.  The level in which you are working with any
product.  

Also, something that you personally are forgetting to factor in.  What is
your time worth?  So, for every half hour or hours you work at fixing,
debugging, or finding and using workarounds...How much of that time is your
time, applying yourself this way.  Factor in your hourly rate, pro rate it
to minutes, and start watching the bill go up...Because effectively "your
time is money"...don't ya think?  Isn't your development time as an artist,
just as important, as any development time for software engineer?

>So you're tired of being offered *optional* updates that you don't even have
>to get? That's a bit odd... My 4.0 manual says it was written September
>1999,

Your manual will always be out of date...LOL, there was whole discussion
here on the list this very ideal of having better manuals and more updated
ones.  You can come over to my house if you want, and compare your manual
with mine.  They are pretty close...believe me, I am graphic artist, I see
these things.  My manual dates May of 1998.  But that really has nothing to
do with anything.  Because my manual is still actually 3.0.  Your manual
wasn't written in September 1999, it was merely updated in September 1999. 
Some of the debate was the fact that some of the manual was in fact
antiquated to the program.  The reason for a PDF.

>so you must have paid for 2.x -> 3.x upgrade sometime even earlier
>than that.. Is $400 really that much to ask for updating something you
>bought more than 3 years ago?

It has in fact been about two years, since v3.5 to v4.  But you are new
user, so there is no way you could know that...right?  But yes, 400.00 for
an upgrade is too much.  That is a reality.  In fact as I remember it, when
most of us here on the LUG were upgrading to v4.  There was a particular
debate, that was about how upgrading from 3.7.2 to v4 for 249.00 US was tad
expensive.  Quite a few people were upset with this.  Especially since most
of us were in fact using 3.7.2.  And were really not used to paying that
much for an upgrade.  

>If you only bought it 3 years ago exactly
>(though I suspect it was probably more like 4+ years ago)... that works out
>that you're only $11.11 for each of the 12 programmers ***per year*** for
>those 100+ pages worth of updates, fixes, new features, etc. Is that really
>so much to ask? $11.11 each... not even counting the dozens of other people
>it took to document/translate/market the product... $400 is really very very
>little when you consider what you're actually paying for.

Buddy, your math is way out of line here...It is more like $11.11 x
8,000,000 people (or more) ***per year*** would be like 8,888,000.00 US. 
Which divide up between 12 programmers would be about 750,000.00 US each. 
LOL.  One would say, that they are packin' a nice tidy little bank roll...if
that is fact what they are getting paid...LOL.

What is wrong with this picture is you defining set variables to one
individual, but you forgot to multiply that with how many people who are
buying logic. So, I certainly will not go down that road, that is bogus,
especially when own looks at from this perspective.

1. 3.7.2 to v4 that would have been approximately 249.00 US. 

2. Then to purchase v4 to v5 would be 150.00

That is a total of 399.00.

So really I am paying full value for version 4, for what I what I would paid
for it two years ago.

So now, 249.00 US for v4 upgrade and now 150.00
US for v5.  Again, this is not how it is handled by most companies.  Most
companies find a compromise in cost, and sell "Skip Upgrades" with a
compromise in pricing structures.  You certainly would not want to pay
399.00 for a cross platform upgrade, now would you?  The thinking is this,
"Oh, you missed v4
and yet it is now dated technology, so one sells at a compromised price, and
moves it over into the cost v5.  The compromise is in cost, which is to
accept a lesser value for the Dated technology, this is what people in this
industry do...it is a fact. To do otherwise is ludicrous.

Now, suppose I knew that my upgrade from 3.7.2 to v5 was going to be 399.00.
 I could have run down to guitar center and bought v4 with AW2 card, for
399.00, which would total about 430.92.  Then upgrade to v5 for the
additional 150.00...which roughly comes out to $580.92.  Then I might be
happy for the fact that I got v5 and AW2 card.  For a lot less then the
overall value of both combined in an over the counter sale, by today's
standards. Or then, I could turn around and sell the AW2 card for 150.00
bucks. And now I am back to 430.92.  Now with that in mind...now I am really
back to 399.00 + tax for the upgrade.  Now, how is the upgrade price, of
399.00 ethically based or compared to a promotional over the counter
sale...it is not.  Basically, there is no comparison, I am paying the same
value, of a promotional to get a larger user base...now how is that ethical
pricing for an upgrade.  An upgrade is supposed to be cheaper than any
promotion in the over counter market.  I am amazed that people don't see
this.

Again, I "skip upgraded" from Photoshop 3 to Photoshop 5.5 for 99.00, but I
received  Illustrator 8 upgrade for additional added cost of 99.00.  So, in
order to skip upgrade and get the deal, I had to buy both...see what I am
saying.  Somewhere a compromise was met, to get my version of Illustrator
updated as well.  Buying two things for a price.  The idea is that the Adobe
allotted flexibility to give me the deal.  One couldn't resist deal like
this.  Which in fact was better than any other over the counter mark down
deal or mail order upgrades.  Really, I kid you not. 

The idea is that Adobe is IF Number 2 in software sales.  Proving that
volume sales far exceed Markup sales.  Making the idea of compromise in
upgrade pricing to equate profit.  Don't get caught up by this idea that
Emagic is doing you favors, they are business, just like anyone else.  If
you look at objectively, and look at what is out there, you see the
patterns.  Emagic is trying to do this with v5...create volume sales.  But
are effectively keeping me from upgrading to v5, without reducing the cost
of my upgrade.  Screw that.  Again, for v5 maybe, 249.00 US to 300.00 US,
fine I can see that...but 399.00.  You have got to be kidding me.

Again...Better to sell something for 1 dollar more than
what is cost to make, then sell it for 100 dollars more than what it cost to
make...why, because 10,000,000 sales at 1 dollar each...is 10,000,000.00
dollars profit, whereas 10,000 sale at a 100 dollars each is 1,000,000.00
dollars profit.  Harder to sell something if it cost more.  

399.00...yeah, right...NOT! gonna happen.

Peace,
Alexis