The Logic Off Topic list

Hi Debbie,

perhaps you should subscribe to a mag like Sound On Sound. They provide 
excellent advice on things like that,and as a subscriber you've got 
access to all back issues.
Couple of tips though:
Try the snare bottom mic out of phase. The fact that top and bottom mics 
face in opposite directions could lead to problems on mixdown.
What about a pair of overheads instead of one mic on the ride???
Make sure the drummer doesn't hit the U87!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'd use the SM 57 on the tom, the NT2 on the sax, the C 3000 on the 
'bone and the SM 58 on the other tom.
Use your ears and get someone else to move the mics around while you're 
in the control room.

Cheers,

Recky

DbbBrook@... wrote:

>I have the following microphones for the following instruments.  The only 
>problem I'm having now is how to place the mics.
>
>KICK DRUM - D112
>SNARE TOP - PL20
>SNARE BOTTOM - D190
>HI HAT - U87 +48V
>HIGH TOM - C3000 +48V
>LOW TOM - NT2 +48V
>RIDE (AMP SUPPLIED) - C28
>BASS MIC SOLID TUBE POWER AMP SUPPLIED
>BASS DI - DI +48V
>PIANO L/H = D1 +48V
>PIANO R/H = D1
>SAX - SM58
>TROMBONE SM57
>
>HAS ANY ONE GOOD SOME ADVICE FOR ME PLEASE ON HOW I PLACE THESE MICS?
>
>Pretty please.  This is not homework!!!!  This is very important.  I will use 
>my common sense but some advice would be good pretty please.
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-- 
"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs.

There's also a negative side."

(Hunter S. Thompson)

Cheers.  I have subscribed to the site but not the magazine yet.  Due to 
financial difficulties, but I well be able to start receiving in a few 
months, when money situations sort them self's out.

DbbBrook@... wrote:
  I have the following microphones for the following instruments.  The only 
  problem I'm having now is how to place the mics.

  KICK DRUM - D112
  SNARE TOP - PL20
  SNARE BOTTOM - D190
  HI HAT - U87 +48V
  HIGH TOM - C3000 +48V
  LOW TOM - NT2 +48V
  RIDE (AMP SUPPLIED) - C28
  BASS MIC SOLID TUBE POWER AMP SUPPLIED
  BASS DI - DI +48V
  PIANO L/H = D1 +48V
  PIANO R/H = D1
  SAX - SM58
  TROMBONE SM57

  HAS ANY ONE GOOD SOME ADVICE FOR ME PLEASE ON HOW I PLACE THESE MICS?

         Hi,
             I would use overheads on the drums for the cymbols. Also a room mike sounds good with drums. I never mike the hi-hat or ride cymbol. I haven't had to yet. The overheads pick up the cymbols perfectly and add a completeness to the drums that only close miking doesn't capture. The room mike will also give them some air. 
                
            I like to place the tom mikes about 2 inches above the edge (about 1 inch in the drum) of the tom facing straight down at the head. Some people will face the mike towards the center of the tom where the stick hits. Listen to both you'll hear what one you like best. 
           
            You can also try miking the snare from the side. You sometimes can get a good sound this way. The top mike of the snare I usually point towards the center of the drum where the stick hits. 

          The bass drum mike position depends on how much attack you want. If you want a heavy attack put the mike deep into the bass drum facing the beater a few inches away. If you like a more open sound try miking it right where the hole is in the front of the drum (assuming there is one). 

             Seriously I wouldn't mike drums withoput overheads or atleast a room mike. I would rather one room mike than three direct mikes. Direct miking is great to suppliment the overheads for adding a little more toms or snare and definately bass drum but alone they sound too "separate". To me the drums are supposed to be one instrument and I like them to sound that way. 

    Hope this helps!! Remember most of this stuff is really subjective. Trust your ears. Hopefully you'll have time to experiment and have fun:-)) Happy Tracking!!

          --Roger


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So you've probably found out that even as a non-subscriber you can 
access older back issues. Try a search on drum micing. I remember there 
to be an article on that a while ago.

Cheers,

Recky

DbbBrook@... wrote:

>Cheers.  I have subscribed to the site but not the magazine yet.  Due to 
>financial difficulties, but I well be able to start receiving in a few 
>months, when money situations sort them self's out.
>
>
>

-- 
"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs.

There's also a negative side."

(Hunter S. Thompson)

Great this is a great help.  

Wanted to just get it right, on Sunday.  Like most people.  I know my ears 
are the best equipment there but it's good not to look silly in front of 
people that have played and recorded for years.  :-))  Happier and less 
stressed out now.

Cool

Right.  I will do that now.  

Thank you :-)

drum miking in April 1994 with SOS.

Didn't think.  My god silly girl I am some times.  Lots of information on 
micing there.

Thank you once again :-))

    



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> DbbBrook@... wrote:
> I have the following microphones for the following instruments.  The only
> problem I'm having now is how to place the mics.

Put your ear by whatever the instrument is as someone is playing it, then
move your head around til you find the nicest sound, then put the mic right
there where your ear was.  As long as it's not in the way of the musician :)

>Cheers.  I have subscribed to the site but not the magazine yet.  Due to
>financial difficulties, but I well be able to start receiving in a few
>months, when money situations sort them self's out.

I guess you spent all your cash on mics?



You did not mention overheads.  IMHO they are the most important. 
There is a very old principle that thankfully made a resurgence in 
the nineties: the sound of the drums is in the *air* you cant go 
wrong with stereo overheads and a mic. on the kick in a slightly 
lively room.  Use the overheads for the main part of the sound and 
use the close mics only to bring up those instruments whose levels 
are not quite cutting it.

When with my drummer the overheads are often all I use.

In music there are no rules.... OK there is one: Only close miking 
drums SUCKS!!

You're very lucky to be able to have that many mikes at your disposal!!!

:-)

Cheers

John

Groovey Band website             mail to : chickenjohn@...
http://www.grooveyband.co.uk/

East Kent Morris Minor Club web site    or  ; john@...
http://www.ekmm.co.uk

Shake The Snake web site (other band)   or  ; john@...
http://www.shakethesnake.co.uk


----- Original Message -----
From: <DbbBrook@...>
To: <logic-ot@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: 19 February 2002 15:32
Subject: [L-OT] RE: (OT) Microphone positioning - NOT HOMEWORK


> I have the following microphones for the following instruments.  The only
> problem I'm having now is how to place the mics.
>
> KICK DRUM - D112
> SNARE TOP - PL20
> SNARE BOTTOM - D190
> HI HAT - U87 +48V
> HIGH TOM - C3000 +48V
> LOW TOM - NT2 +48V
> RIDE (AMP SUPPLIED) - C28
> BASS MIC SOLID TUBE POWER AMP SUPPLIED
> BASS DI - DI +48V
> PIANO L/H = D1 +48V
> PIANO R/H = D1
> SAX - SM58
> TROMBONE SM57
>
> HAS ANY ONE GOOD SOME ADVICE FOR ME PLEASE ON HOW I PLACE THESE MICS?
>
> Pretty please.  This is not homework!!!!  This is very important.  I will
use

> my common sense but some advice would be good pretty please.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

In a message dated 20/02/2002 01:02:59 GMT Standard Time, 
dennisg@... writes:


> I guess you spent all your cash on mics?

HE HE

I have no overhead.  I guessed you meant microphones above the drummer. ?? Am 
I right.

There is no other drums apart from these ones.


kick drum - D112
SNARE TOP      PL20
SNARE BOTTOM D190
HIHAT   U87 +48V
HIGH TOM   C3000 +48V
LOW TOM   NT2      +48V
RIDE WITH POWER AMP - C28
bASS MIC   SOLID TUBE - POWER AMP
bass DI  DI +48V
PIANO L/H   D1 +48V
PIANO R/H   D1 +48V
SAX      SM58
TROMBONE SM57


:-)



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>I have no overhead.  I guessed you meant microphones above the drummer. ?? Am
>I right.

Yes thats what I mean.

The absolute most important mics you can put on the set would be the 
overheads.  Two mikes arranged as a stereo pair fairly high above the 
set.  Exact placement of these will be debated but few people would 
argue that they are not necessary.
I like to put them 2 or 3 feet above and a little in front of or a 
little behind the position of the drummer.  this of course assumes a 
high ceiling.  If the  the mics are too close to the ceiling you may 
get phase problems from the sound reflecting off the ceiling in which 
case you will need to lower them.

One thing you can do in cases where the ceiling is low is to use 
perimeter mics.  These are mics that are built on plates are designed 
to be put on a flat surface like a wall floor or ceiling.  You can 
get surprisingly passable ones at radio shack for about the price of 
a two year magazine subscription. ;-)

Also remember there is no law that says the overheads have to be a 
stereo pair.  I sometimes do the overhead in mono and if I am micing 
the snare separately I pan the snare a little to one side and the 
overhead a little to the other in the mix to get a bit of a stereo 
feeling in the drums.

When I mix drums I usually use as close to the overhead only sound as 
I can get.  One nice thing about it is that the mics are hearing just 
about the same thing the drummer is hearing and if he has a good 
sense of balance in the way he hits his drums you don't really have 
to mix the set because he basically will have done it for you as part 
of his performance.   The difficulty that you can run into is that 
the cymbals end up being a little loud in the overheads.

Since I get so much of them in the overheads anyway personally I 
never bother miking cymbals separately.

As may guess I always use the best mics I can get my hands on as the overheads.

I have read that Led Zepplin's Drummer John Bonham who is so famous 
for his great sound was often miked with only three mics.  The 
engineer was koy about the exact placement but listening I would 
guess there was just a pair overhead and one in front of the kick.

>kick drum - D112
>SNARE TOP      PL20
>SNARE BOTTOM D190

I am not familiar with any of these this mics but miking snare 
bottoms is usually more trouble than it's worth.


>HIHAT   U87 +48V
>LOW TOM   NT2      +48V

It is a characteristic of U87s that they distort slightly in the high 
end which is not really what you want on a high hat.  Also I have 
never in my life had a problem with not enough high hat when using 
the overheads as mains.  HiHats are tricky things to mic if you the 
get the mic in too close or too horizontal they can sound really 
chuffy and barky.  It may sound alarming but I generally end up not 
using hihat mics in the mix so I don't even give the hihat it's own 
mic these days.

So:

The U87 is a classic overhead mic. Maybe you could pair it up with 
the Rode NT2 which is intended as a copy of the U87 for the overheads 
and move the D190 (whatever that is) over to the low tom.  (since you 
won't be using the low tom much in the final mix anyway because the 
overheads sound so good.

>HIGH TOM   C3000 +48V

I love C3000s.  Large diaphram sound like a U87 only much more crisp. 
If you must put a large diaphram on the hihat this one will be a 
better bet than the U87.


>RIDE WITH POWER AMP - C28

?? I don't quite understand what this means.  Are you micing the rid 
cymbal.  If so Overheads will make this redundant.

Also I am being pretty free with opinions here but in truth I do not 
know what a C28 is.  Maker?

>bASS MIC   SOLID TUBE - POWER AMP
>bass DI  DI +48V
>PIANO L/H   D1 +48V
>PIANO R/H   D1 +48V
>SAX      SM58
>TROMBONE SM57

I see you don't have a matched pair of anything except the ones you 
are using on the piano.

Of course you do know you will be wanting to put the piano mics over 
the strings and not in front the keyboard, right?

Unless that is an acoustic bass (Is it??), I would give the sax the 
Solid tube and move the SM 58 in front of the Bass amp.

I am not familiar with the mics you have on the snare but maybe