The Logic Off Topic list

From: "Aaron Rosenberg" <aaron@phenotype.com> 
Date: Wed Mar 20, 2002 10:44am 
Subject: RE: [LUG] Re: LAM: Serial MIDI and Logic in MAC OS X / Wait before
buying Logic Control! 

I think I'm just in denial. Ever since Gibson destroyed Opcode, I've had
these feelings.  I guess all you Emagic folk have Gibson to thank actually.
Otherwise, I may have never been on this list!  Poor Studio Vision. Anyway -
as soon as Doug Wyatt and Dave Oppenheim tell me that it's ok to no longer
have an Opcode product active in my studio (what a cruel world!) then I'll
ditch the Studio 4s.  It just doesn't look right without em. Anyway - I'm
being a dork.  I guess I'll just have to pony up for AMT8s and put off the
Logic Control purchase.

<sniff> <sniff>

Markus, next time to speak to Doug, can you ask him if it's ok if I move on?
;)

___________________________________________________
Aaron Rosenberg
WWW: http://www.phenotype.com
EMAIL: aaron@p...
*If we had a pie chart, it would be 2/3 whiggidy and 1/3 wack.*




-----Original Message-----
From: Lachlan Deck [mailto:ldeck@m...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 9:32 AM
To: logic-users@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [LUG] Re: LAM: Serial MIDI and Logic in MAC OS X / Wait before
buying Logic Control !


Hi there,

>    Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 16:53:19 +0100
>    From: Cyril Blanc <blanc.cyril@w...>
> <...>
> Hello Markus,
>
>     I personally find it totally unacceptable that Emagic will no longer
> support MTP serial Midi devices and I'm really hoping Emagic will
> reconsider this decision.

Cyril - I'm in a similar boat, but don't over-quote what he says. i.e., 
he did not say that they will not support MTP serial Midi devices as 
this support _will_ continue for OS 9 users as it always has.

The issue is for OS X users: Okay, so let's paint the picture -
+ none of the big players have released their app for OS X as yet - (see 
developers at work)...
+ Some users are itchy to use the new system with their gear - (see 
onlookers  waiting in anticipation)...
+ Marketing people (i.e., the media types) love to be the ones to 
deliver the first wave of the news (see sales people promoting the 
latest and greatest)...

Okay, not a masterpiecé - but hey...

The way OS X is designed, with good reason, is for adaptability. i.e & 
e.g., the CoreMIDI framework is just that - a framework for which 
plugins must be made for specific devices. The same is true for _all_ 
printer drivers for example.

_So, in order for Emagic to support the MTP in OS X, as they currently 
do in OS 9 _exclusively_ via Logic's internal midi engine (read 
implemented midi framework) would mean that they (Emagic) would have to 
create a System-wide-and-available plugin for any _other_ app.
i.e., it is no longer possible to do this exclusively - due to the 
completely differing architectures of OS9/X - i.e., OS 9 allowed for 
direct access to hardware...OS X abstracts the hardware so that the 
developer no longer knows about its specifics but deals with a defined 
interface or framework...aka CoreMIDI.

So, what Markus says is, of course, natural and fair - as to the MTP 
device. That is, this is a MOTU product and just as you would expect 
Digidesign to produce the support for their products for OS X, or any 
other system for that matter, so it is MOTU's responsibility to do the 
hard yards and get their hands dirty on some code - instead of Emagic 
helping their competitor, which, of course, would be nice and rosy but 
probably not a two-way street and therefore no real return for Emagic.

This is akin to the decision Apple made to limit the development of 
Cocoa apps to the Mac OS. i.e., it was possible with the NeXT 
development tools to produce, apparently, cross-platform apps that would 
run on Wintel machines as well. But Apple thought something along the 
lines of - little or no return for all that effort...and probably they 
are right.

>     It is not the question of Emagic working for Motu or for OPCODE or
> Cubase ;-) , it is Emagic continuing to support MTP serial devices so
> you are upward compatible.
>     Since Notator you always have been upward compatible, so why change
> a good marketing policy today ?

See above. Again, MTP devices will continue to work on OS 9.
Opcode is dead, defunct, caput mortuum...
And yes it is a question, as explained above, of Emagic making 
compatible drivers for the rest of the industry - which they shouldn't. 
Emagic's job, rather, is to make their software work with _any_ device 
that _has_ a CoreMIDI driver by working with CoreMIDI alone + making 
plugins for their own devices which they received payment from. They, on 
the other hand, received _no_ payment from the sale of other 
manufacturers devices.

This is akin to a music reseller repairing someone's guitar for free, 
all within the warrantee period, except the guitar was bought somewhere 
else...i.e., no monetary return on time invested == no business sense 
(except maybe winning over a new loyal customer...but is less likely).

>    You can always filter Logic users with testing the Logic dongle in
> your MTP MidiCore driver ;-) ,

Doubt it...

>     Do you prefer us to spend our money on  midi interfaces instead of
> buying Logic Control ? :-(  (They are many supplier of Midi interfaces,
> only one for Logic Control) ;-)

Do you get the picture? The company you need to hassle is MOTU if 
anyone. If MOTU comes to the party with a serial driver for the MTP then 
you'll be over the moon - join a MOTU discussion list (stay with us 
though) and hassle them to do this.

Secondly, Apple is the one that Doug is employed by - so hassle them.

>     Do not forget that most of the musicians are broke( it is said that
> a rich or a happy musician has less inspiration because he is not
> suffering :-) :-) :-) ).

You must be into the blues?

> ...My decision today is to wait for this driver before buying Logic
> control (I was going to buy 1 x LC, 2 x XT and a Phat channel) and I
> call all users of Motu MTP, Opcode STUDIO x and Emagic Unitors to do the
> same , :-) , in French we say "donnant donnant" direct translation
> "giving giving" :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)

I can appreciate your plight, but hey, one day leaded petrol cars will 
no longer be legal to drive - the car may still work, but you can't 
boycott an upgrade when this happens. It's called progress - but as you 
say, doesn't make the pocket any better off.

The difference for me is that I'm pleading for an OS X serial driver for 
an interface that _is_ made by Emagic - and this, imo, is a reasonably 
request as the unit is by no means ready for the scrap heap. (nor is my 
computer for that matter...as others have pointed out, there are many 
with rigs of gear handing off G3 machines that are still performing well)

Well, here's hoping...

> Best Regards
> Cyril (Logic/Notator user since 20 years)

with regards,

--
Lachlan Deck
ldeck@m...
(Logic/Notator user since 13yrs)