The Logic Off Topic list

Greetings,

Meditation on the disturbing spew coming from Gruvwiz has motivated me to
make one more stand before departing.

Two months ago, it was Gruvwiz whose sexist remarks spurred Barb to speak up
in protest.  She was swiftly condemned as humorless by a gang that rallied
in support of Gruviz:

Dennis Gunn...
> what is it about feminism that makes women didactic and humor illegal.

Yavuz AKYAZICI...
> May be it was just a joke.

Hendrik Jan Veenstra...
> If you don't like a joke, then simply ignore it...

Gruvwiz himself protested:
> please, I was joking  ...

And Joeri's response, then as now, was to belittle the complaint and sweep
the matter under the rug...
> Just checked in for today and I see a huge thread on a STUPID
> discussion. Please folks, get a life and move on!

Well, now we have seen just what a joker Gruvwiz actually is:
> ...but , why don't you go out to take yo mom from that pimp !
>
> FUK U  !

Would any of you Gruvwiz apologists care to explain the humor in his
hate mail?  

[cc to f-erenc szabo, Howard Wooten, Sascha Frank, John Matthews, Jesse
Widener, and Col Bernau - all of whom add their voices to those of Dennis
gun and Yavuz Akyazici in this month's episode of "He Was Just Joking!"]

-- Marvin Humphrey
Mastering Engineer and Graphic Designer, emeritus
Mr. Toad's, San Francisco, California, USA
CD design website - http://marvin.mrtoads.com

Sorry for another message in your already (no doubt busy in boxes), however,
I'd like to make clear that
I have at no time supported, nor would ever intend to support this Gruvywas
character (or whatever his name is)

"> Would any of you Gruvwiz apologists care to explain the humor in his
> hate mail?
>
> [cc to f-erenc szabo, Howard Wooten, Sascha Frank, John Matthews, "

well actually, I have never apologised for this character, infact if he
sends mails like that to people then I'm glad he is a  Gruvy-was-on the list
and not a Gruvvy-is on the list. :-)

The humor I was referring to was in Phil's comment, which I'm sure he meant
as a joke. I was not referring to anything else that anyone else said.

nuff said, I want to get on and make some mad music!

Merry Xmas,

Cheers

John

Groovey band website
http://www.grooveyband.co.uk/

mail to : chickenjohn@...
----- Original Message -----
From: Marvin Humphrey <marvin@...>
To: <logic-ot@egroups.com>
Cc: Dennis Gunn <mightyjohn@...>; Yavuz AKYAZICI <yavuzj@...>;
Hendrik Jan Veenstra <h@...>; f-erenc szabo <zerobeat@...>;
Howard Wooten <hwooten@...>; Sascha Franck
<saschafranck@...>; John Matthews <Groovey@...>; Jesse
Widener <reverie@...>; Col Bernau <colbee@...>
Sent: 19 December 2000 23:23
Subject: "He Was Just Joking!"


> Greetings,
>
> Meditation on the disturbing spew coming from Gruvwiz has motivated me to
> make one more stand before departing.
>
> Two months ago, it was Gruvwiz whose sexist remarks spurred Barb to speak
up

> in protest.  She was swiftly condemned as humorless by a gang that rallied
> in support of Gruviz:
>
> Dennis Gunn...
> > what is it about feminism that makes women didactic and humor illegal.
>
> Yavuz AKYAZICI...
> > May be it was just a joke.
>
> Hendrik Jan Veenstra...
> > If you don't like a joke, then simply ignore it...
>
> Gruvwiz himself protested:
> > please, I was joking  ...
>
> And Joeri's response, then as now, was to belittle the complaint and sweep
> the matter under the rug...
> > Just checked in for today and I see a huge thread on a STUPID
> > discussion. Please folks, get a life and move on!
>
> Well, now we have seen just what a joker Gruvwiz actually is:
> > ...but , why don't you go out to take yo mom from that pimp !
> >
> > FUK U  !
>
> Would any of you Gruvwiz apologists care to explain the humor in his
> hate mail?
>
> [cc to f-erenc szabo, Howard Wooten, Sascha Frank, John Matthews, Jesse
> Widener, and Col Bernau - all of whom add their voices to those of Dennis
> gun and Yavuz Akyazici in this month's episode of "He Was Just Joking!"]
>
> -- Marvin Humphrey
> Mastering Engineer and Graphic Designer, emeritus
> Mr. Toad's, San Francisco, California, USA
> CD design website - http://marvin.mrtoads.com
>
>

Greetings,

I believe that it is important for me to enter a few notes in the public
record.  Your collective patience is appreciated.

First, foremost, I would like to stress that NO ONE I mentioned in my post,
neither the individuals mentioned in the body of the message nor the cc'd
recipients, has EVER given me the flimsiest shred of evidence suggesting
that they might actually condone the _hate mail_ from Gruvwiz.

Second, the rhetorical excesses of that post were partly by design and
partly unconscious, but they were not as well thought out as I would have
liked them to be, and in some ways they were quite irresponsible, for which
I offer my sincere apologies.  The central device of intentionally lumping
together diverse individuals, and blurring the distinctions between what any
one of them might or might not approve of, in the hopes of goading the
reader into overtly mapping those distinctions for themselves worked... far
better than I had expected it to, in part because it was SO unfair.  To give
an example of just how unfair, one person on the cc list notes that he stood
with Barb against Gruvwiz two months ago.

However, it is unlikely that anyone would have remembered that fact - I
hadn't.  It is clear that I made it too easy for the casual reader to take
away a lasting negative impression of any one of the names listed.  I am now
very distressed by this thought, and I urge everyone who saw what I wrote to
base their judgement of those individuals on _anything_ besides my
oversimplification.  I am tempted to post a disclaimer for each and every
person wronged. 

Third, as a whole, the emails that I have received in response to my
missive, including withering rebuttals and unanticipated, greatly
appreciated olive branches, comprise some of the most thought-provoking
correspondence I have received in some time.  In the future, I aspire to
provoke such stimulating writings with creativity and empathy rather than
rancor.  I will dwell upon those letters.

Fourth, I regret having alienated and disappointed a number of people who I
have enjoyed communicating with over the last several months.  Perhaps I
will win back your confidence some day.

Sincerely,

Marvin Humphrey

Hi Marvin,

>I believe that it is important for me to enter a few notes in the public
>record.  Your collective patience is appreciated.

Thanks for your letter.  Over the last few months I got the sort of 
respect for you as an individual (and as a professional) which was 
not on a par with what happened during the last week.  Talking about 
cognitive dissonance...  Therefore I am glad that you just now wrote 
what you wrote, and I'd like to thank you for it.  I sincerely hope 
that in the future we can continue to communicate as a bunch of 
mature, adult, responsible people -- which in the end, I trust, we 
all are.

In case you indeed left the LUG, I'd like to ask you to reconsider 
your decision.  I look forward to more bickering about microphone's, 
input gain, and the best speed at which to burn a CD :-).

>Fourth, I regret having alienated and disappointed a number of people who I
>have enjoyed communicating with over the last several months.  Perhaps I
>will win back your confidence some day.

In case I am one of those people: I never lost confidence in you.  I 
just think things got quite out of hand.  Now that we're back on 
track: let's move on without looking back.


have a good christmas, and an even better start of the new year,
Hendrik Jan

-- 
     Hendrik Jan Veenstra    ( h@... )