The Logic Off Topic list

Just a little joke teddy .....maybe you  left a couple of rocks in this wake
up .
 In my experience in a conventional studio most [read all ] engineers have
wanted the bass with the treble wound up all the way so after being able to
get my hands on the dials in my own setup I was quite surprised to discover
that bass git sounded much better with a significant amount of the freqency
ranged rolled off , A very significant amount .You have to remember obi that
you are getting a lot of your attack characteristics from the bass drum a
lot of the time and your bass will be buried nearly all the time ,now I'm
not saying to disappear it but I am saying if you give it full range you are
going to be interfering with a whole lot of other inst.and not getting much
more kick\ punch\ smooth roundness or any of those wonderful qualities  we
bass players dispense to the rest of the mere mortals ...so just leave them
out . I'm sure there are pedants everywhere currently finding exceptions to
the rule as stated by MOI but be that as it may thats what I reckon and I'vr
been listening to and playing bass while a significant portion of this list
were still getting their arse wiped by mummy .As far as bass is concerned
treble sucks so dump it unless you want to sound like Jet Harris which with
all due respect I dont . I'm not going to say where to roll it off because
that depends .
  Oh and one more comment , I have never ever been in a situation where
shitty inst have ended up sounding great due to engineering brilliance Teddy
,shit sticks but beauty shines .
                                                                        Paul

----- Original Message -----

From: "Paul Wheeler&Kerry Higgs" <hilltop@...>

>  In my experience in a conventional studio most [read all ] engineers have
> wanted the bass with the treble wound up all the way so after being able
> to get my hands on the dials in my own setup I was quite surprised to
> discover  that bass git sounded much better with a significant amount of
> the  freqency  ranged rolled off , A very significant amount .

I once had to use a lowpassfilter on the bass at 300hz to make up for poor
arrangment.
The guitars didn't match the bass at all and I ended up rescuing the song by
just putting the bass underneath it all.
The bass player wasn't happy, but the label was happy that the song now
sounded good.

If you want a full range bass sound you have to arrange the song so that
there is room for a full range bass.
The player also have to play good enough to be allowed to have a full range
bass sound :)

Also:
There's a big difference where the treble frequenzies lies in different
basses.
If you go for the most expensive/hightech basses they have their "click" way
up int the treble area, while a Presicion bass will have the "click" almost
in the mid area.
That's why old Fenders often sound good in rock mixes IMO.

--
Arvid Solvang
http://www.viagram.no/

> > Just a little joke teddy .....maybe you  left a couple of rocks in this
> > wake up .

Thanks for the comments guys.
Apperantly there's no straight answer on how to mix the bass in a mix, and
it depends on both the player, instrument and style. I guess I'll just have
to try to avoid all the pit falls, what ever they are...

Just for reference... I think the bass sound on the "Dubstar- Stars" is
perfect, and Arvid, the bass sound on "Maria Mena - Free" is very close to
perfect as well!

Here's a few of my tracks, maybe you can tell me what I'm doing wrong...

http://www.bacteria.no/showreel/media/voodoobeats_theone.wmv
http://www.bacteria.no/showreel/media/voodoobeats_bmc.wmv
http://www.bacteria.no/showreel/media/varners_03.wmv
http://www.bacteria.no/showreel/media/dressmann_01.wmv

Obi

Hey,

On that first song, I would say the bass is a bit muddy.  When a bass sounds
"muddy" in the mix, I try cutting around the 250 to 500 Hz area.  Just fiddle
with it and see what you think.

I think the low end is good... 80 to 150 Hz.

And remember, the frequencies between around 700 to 1200 Hz contain
what you might call the "string plucking" sound of the bass... plus there are
a lot of harmonics in that range that actually help the listener recognize
the actual pitch of the bass notes.

FWIW,
Brian


At 04:31 PM 2/23/2003 +0100, you wrote:

> > > Just a little joke teddy .....maybe you  left a couple of rocks in this
> > > wake up .
>
>Thanks for the comments guys.
>Apperantly there's no straight answer on how to mix the bass in a mix, and
>it depends on both the player, instrument and style. I guess I'll just have
>to try to avoid all the pit falls, what ever they are...
>
>Just for reference... I think the bass sound on the "Dubstar- Stars" is
>perfect, and Arvid, the bass sound on "Maria Mena - Free" is very close to
>perfect as well!
>
>Here's a few of my tracks, maybe you can tell me what I'm doing wrong...
>
>http://www.bacteria.no/showreel/media/voodoobeats_theone.wmv
>http://www.bacteria.no/showreel/media/voodoobeats_bmc.wmv
>http://www.bacteria.no/showreel/media/varners_03.wmv
>http://www.bacteria.no/showreel/media/dressmann_01.wmv
>
>Obi
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Too true. The times I've had a real job on my hands mixing a poorly arranged
song. Songs with great playing, good arrangement and a sound that was given
some thought prior to recording tend to be a breeze to mix.
Darren

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Arvid Solvang [mailto:arvid@...]
> Sent: 22 February 2003 09:39

> I once had to use a lowpassfilter on the bass at 300hz to 
> make up for poor
> arrangment.
> The guitars didn't match the bass at all and I ended up 
> rescuing the song by
> just putting the bass underneath it all.
> The bass player wasn't happy, but the label was happy that 
> the song now
> sounded good.
> 
> If you want a full range bass sound you have to arrange the 
> song so that
> there is room for a full range bass.
> The player also have to play good enough to be allowed to 
> have a full range
> bass sound :)
> 


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> In my experience in a conventional studio most [read all ] engineers have
> wanted the bass with the treble wound up all the way so after being able
to
> get my hands on the dials in my own setup I was quite surprised to
discover
> that bass git sounded much better with a significant amount of the
freqency
> ranged rolled off ,

Spoken like a child of the sixties... Seriously, I have always liked a
bright
but warm bass sound, roundwound steel strings through Bartolini pickups
through a modern bass rig. Lately though, I have started playing my
passive jazz with flatwounds through a tubey fender setting on my
Sansamp PSA-1. Very different, but it manages to cut through the mix
without fighting other instruments in the treble range.

> not saying to disappear it but I am saying if you give it full range you
are
> going to be interfering with a whole lot of other inst.and not getting
much
> more kick\ punch\ smooth roundness or any of those wonderful qualities  we
> bass players dispense to the rest of the mere mortals

Well, tell that to Chris Squire... Although, as somebody mentioned,
different
basses have their treble at different frequencies. The old Chris Squire
sound
was a passive Rickenbacker, so it was midrangier and lacked the extreme
highs 
(and lows) of a more modern bass, but it was punchier and more audible in
the 
mix as a result... 

BTW, one guy to listen to is Will Lee (Letterman Show), who manages to make
a 
bass sound like a real loud punchy bass through 3 inch TV speakers. Amazing.

YMMV, That's how I feel today, and various other disclaimers apply...

	-smeet

I have a Rickenbacker 4001 and a Fender Jazz; although the Fender almost always sound better in the traditional sense, the Rickenbacker simply seems to sit better in the mix on many occasions. I find that when it comes to placing a bass in a mix there are no rules but you can be sure that if the bass sounds good on its own then it probably sucks when played along with the rest. Obviously you also have to decide which should be the deeper sound, the kick drum or the bass. If you have a deep kick you should probably use a low cut filter to keep the bass out of that area or vice versa. When it comes to EQing basses many people use the trick to have the bass on two or more tracks all EQed differently, if you do that you can bring in the bassy ones on the thin parts and roll them off when it gets too boomy, this works for samples as well.
Henrik Krogh
henrikkrogh@...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

<< BTW, one guy to listen to is Will Lee (Letterman Show), who manages to make
bass sound like a real loud punchy bass through 3 inch TV speakers. Amazing
YMMV, That's how I feel today, and various other disclaimers apply... >>

Maybe its MaxBass plugin or the like .... or BBE Sonic maximizer. A 3 inch 
speaker is physically incable of rendering low bass tones.

> << BTW, one guy to listen to is Will Lee (Letterman Show), who manages to
make
> bass sound like a real loud punchy bass through 3 inch TV speakers.
Amazing
> YMMV, That's how I feel today, and various other disclaimers apply... >>

> Maybe its MaxBass plugin or the like .... or BBE Sonic maximizer. A 3 inch

> speaker is physically incable of rendering low bass tones.

My point exactly. There is more to the bass than low frequencies. Very few
people have speakers capable of reproducing 31Hz tones, but you can clearly
hear the pitch of Will's low B string over the tv.  It's not about low
frequencies, but rather about what you think you are hearing. Most of
the character of bass comes from low mids and some from high mids (unless
you
are hearing it at high volumes in a club, when the low freqs take
over everything...).

	-smeet