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notation software comparison

notation software comparison

2003-07-15 by bladderskate

I know this may seem like it doesn't belong here, but please bear with me.

I want to know how Logic Plat 5 (or later) users rate and/or compare
the programs Sibelius and Finale for making quality prints of the
music they make in Logic.  Any thoughts on this, to help me choose a
notation program to go with Logic.  Looking for the most professional
results and customizability (for mod music) with the least hassle in
going between Logic and the notation app.

Perhaps there has already been a thread on this topic?  Could someone
point me to it?  (My modem is IMMENsely slow).

Thanks,
Vlad

Re: [L-OT] notation software comparison

2003-07-16 by Hendrik Jan Veenstra

On a fine day, 15-07-2003, bladderskate wrote:

>I know this may seem like it doesn't belong here, but please bear with me.

This is L-OT, isn't it, so anything belongs here :)

>I want to know how Logic Plat 5 (or later) users rate and/or compare
>the programs Sibelius and Finale for making quality prints of the
>music they make in Logic.  Any thoughts on this, to help me choose a
>notation program to go with Logic.  Looking for the most professional
>results and customizability (for mod music) with the least hassle in
>going between Logic and the notation app.

I'm by no means an expert.  Years ago I did some notation with Finale 
(version 3.something) and I've never even seen Sibelius. Still, any 
input is input, right?  So...

If you want a program that can do anything except make coffee, get 
Finale.  Want a 13-line stave (or is that staff?) with custom 
note-heads that have a user-defined MIDI-meaning?  Finale does it. 
Think up the most ridiculous requirement you could have, and Finale 
does it.
BUT... if you think Logic's learning curve is steep, you've never 
seen Finale.  Maybe it has been improved since I last used it, but 
Finale is the *only* piece of software that absolutely drove me up 
the wall (and I used a hell of a lot of different software packages 
over the years).  Change something: plough your way through at least 
3 dialogs (and often 5 or more).  And somehow I would always forget 
where option so-and-so was, so I got to taking notes of what I did 
and save those, so I could use my own notes as a reference in the 
future.  Completely utterly impossible interface.  It's very good 
though when it comes to stuff like extracting individual parts from 
orchestral scores and such.

Sibelius: no idea, never seen it. but I've heard some very good 
things about it. Probably less powerful than Finale (which still is 
the industry standard, I believe), but also more user-friendly I 
suppose.

Switching between Logic and some notation-app: what often amazes me 
is that people expect to be able to just play a piece loosely, and 
still get good notation out of it.  IMO that's impossible. You have 
to have 2 copies of a piece: one for notation purposes, and one for 
playing/recording.  And that's true regardless of the notation app 
you use (including Logic itself).
With Finale I used to make a hard-quantized version of a piece, 
export as midifile, and import in Finale.  That worked rather well. 
Most of the clean-up involved having to do enharmonic changes, but 
that's no big deal.  Of course such a version sounds horrible, but 
that's irrelevant (and also explains why I never used the MIDI 
functionality of Finale, and consider it irrelevant).  So the most 
important job in going from Logic to a notation-app is quantising 
both the note-start (easy) and note-length (cumbersome, 
unfortunately) in Logic.  After that at least Finale should give you 
a pretty decent score as a starting point.  Don't know about 
Sibelius, but I would expect its functionality to be similar.

Still, there's lots of work left after importing the midifile.  Often 
the spacing in a bar is way off (Finale stretching one bar across a 
full page line , while you want to fit 2 bars on that same line, 
etc).  That's where Finale becomes (or: became) cumbersome.  You can 
do it -- in fact, you can do anything in Finale -- but in my 
experience you have to have an extraordinary amount of patience and 
perseverance (or a bloody good memory for the zillion dialogs, or 
both).

Probably others have more recent experiences with either application 
and can share some really useful info.  Just thought I'd tell you 
about my past experiences, and my general thoughts about 
sequencer-to-notation work.

-- 
Hendrik Jan Veenstra   h @ k n o w a r e . n l
Omega Art: http://www.omega-art.com/

Re: [L-OT] notation software comparison

2003-07-16 by Santi Galán

Hi all

Just my thougths:

I believe that Finale is the most powerful software when it comes to music
notation....and the new versions (2002, 2003) can hardly compare with those
of past years (specially the 3.x series). Now I find Finale a very intuitive
program, absolutely powerful and capable of anything you can imagine, and
with very few weak points. I've used some demo of Sibelius, and I find it a
little beautiful-looking-in-the-screen program, but in some strange way, I
find it "less professional" than Finale, but then it can be because I got
all my knowledge about scores in the computers with Finale, so...

I recommend you to try both of them...and I'd say that no sequencing program
can compare in no way with an dedicated software like Finale.

Peace...

            Santi Gal\ufffdn

>
> >I know this may seem like it doesn't belong here, but please bear with
me.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> This is L-OT, isn't it, so anything belongs here :)
>
> >I want to know how Logic Plat 5 (or later) users rate and/or compare
> >the programs Sibelius and Finale for making quality prints of the
> >music they make in Logic.  Any thoughts on this, to help me choose a
> >notation program to go with Logic.  Looking for the most professional
> >results and customizability (for mod music) with the least hassle in
> >going between Logic and the notation app.
>

Re: [L-OT] notation software comparison

2003-07-17 by Paul Nicholls

Finale may have changed but I in the past it was a horror story.  
Sibelius is fast and very direct and has pretty good MIDI. I find I get  
the job done fast and I don't have to crack the manual all the time as  
Finale users are noted to do. There are also a lot of new music  
features if you are interested in them.  I would not go for FInale  
unless you really know what you are getting into.

Regards

Paul Nicholls
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Wednesday, July 16, 2003, at 02:31  PM, Santi Galán wrote:

> Hi all
>
> Just my thougths:
>
> I believe that Finale is the most powerful software when it comes to  
> music
> notation....and the new versions (2002, 2003) can hardly compare with  
> those
> of past years (specially the 3.x series). Now I find Finale a very  
> intuitive
> program, absolutely powerful and capable of anything you can imagine,  
> and
> with very few weak points. I've used some demo of Sibelius, and I find  
> it a
> little beautiful-looking-in-the-screen program, but in some strange  
> way, I
> find it "less professional" than Finale, but then it can be because I  
> got
> all my knowledge about scores in the computers with Finale, so...
>
> I recommend you to try both of them...and I'd say that no sequencing  
> program
> can compare in no way with an dedicated software like Finale.
>
> Peace...
>
>             Santi Galán
>
>>
>>> I know this may seem like it doesn't belong here, but please bear  
>>> with
> me.
>>
>> This is L-OT, isn't it, so anything belongs here :)
>>
>>> I want to know how Logic Plat 5 (or later) users rate and/or compare
>>> the programs Sibelius and Finale for making quality prints of the
>>> music they make in Logic.  Any thoughts on this, to help me choose a
>>> notation program to go with Logic.  Looking for the most professional
>>> results and customizability (for mod music) with the least hassle in
>>> going between Logic and the notation app.
>>
>
>
>
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Re: [L-OT] notation software comparison

2003-07-17 by Santi Galán

With all my respects:

I don't say "Finale may have changed", I said Finale HAS changed, and
talking now about a very old version like the 3.x is like comparing Logic 5
with Creator or Notator...
I make part of my living teaching people to do scoring on computers with
Finale, and I find that for the most part, even persons with no background
in computers are able to use this program and make a pretty good amount of
different kinds of scores, just with some classes.
Anyway, I again reccomend everybody that is willing to start with a notation
program, find someone to explain him both of the professional choices
(Sibelius and Finale), and then decide...

Regards

            Santi Gal\ufffdn
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Nicholls" <paulnicholls@...>
To: <logic-ot@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 3:12 AM
Subject: Re: [L-OT] notation software comparison


Finale may have changed but I in the past it was a horror story.
Sibelius is fast and very direct and has pretty good MIDI. I find I get
the job done fast and I don't have to crack the manual all the time as
Finale users are noted to do. There are also a lot of new music
features if you are interested in them.  I would not go for FInale
unless you really know what you are getting into.

Regards

Paul Nicholls

Re: [L-OT] notation software comparison

2003-07-18 by bladderskate

Thanks a lot for the info, all!  OK, I'd be a hipocrite to say that a
giant manual
and deep program scare me off -- I bought Logic didn't I?  See, it's
plain that Logic is complex, but this is to be expected from a program
so robust and capable.  Complex problems (like the vagueries of music)
just don't have easy answers.

Is that the principle behind Finale's many doc pages and user screens?
 Or does it just seem like the program was designed poorly,
introducing complications where they could have been avoided?  Put
another way, is the program thorough to a fault or is it an 800 pound
gorilla that everyone has agreed to work with?

Bladdy

--- In logic-ot@yahoogroups.com, Santi Galán <sgalang@m...> wrote:
> With all my respects:
> 
> I don't say "Finale may have changed", I said Finale HAS changed,
and
> talking now about a very old version like the 3.x is like comparing
Logic 5
> with Creator or Notator...
> I make part of my living teaching people to do scoring on computers
with
> Finale, and I find that for the most part, even persons with no
background
> in computers are able to use this program and make a pretty good
amount of
> different kinds of scores, just with some classes.
> Anyway, I again reccomend everybody that is willing to start with a
notation
> program, find someone to explain him both of the professional
choices
> (Sibelius and Finale), and then decide...
> 
> Regards
> 
>             Santi Galán
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Paul Nicholls" <paulnicholls@s...>
> To: <logic-ot@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 3:12 AM
> Subject: Re: [L-OT] notation software comparison
> 
> 
> Finale may have changed but I in the past it was a horror story.
> Sibelius is fast and very direct and has pretty good MIDI. I find I
get
> the job done fast and I don't have to crack the manual all the time
as
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Finale users are noted to do. There are also a lot of new music
> features if you are interested in them.  I would not go for FInale
> unless you really know what you are getting into.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Paul Nicholls

Re: [L-OT] notation software comparison

2003-07-18 by Hans Hafner

At 13:09 Uhr +0000 18.07.2003, bladderskate wrote:
>Is that the principle behind Finale's many doc pages and user screens?
>  Or does it just seem like the program was designed poorly,
>introducing complications where they could have been avoided?  Put
>another way, is the program thorough to a fault or is it an 800 pound
>gorilla that everyone has agreed to work with?

Mine was solid as a rock, did all I needed to do and a lot more, and 
I think the manual was very well organized with a nice index. I used 
the PDF manual as I could just jump between the links and it was so 
convenient.

Don't know about Sibelius.

Cheers
Hans

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