The Logic Off Topic list

John Pitcairn wrote......

> I found the cheap tube pres I've heard (Blue Tube, Digi Tube, Studio
> Projects, Joe Meek, Behringer) all seemed rather strangled and
> unmusical, certainly no "better" than the pres in a Mackie desk, 
just
> different - more like a tube guitar preamp on low gain. The Symetrix
> wiped the floor with them. 
> 
> If you're expecting a nice warm clear present tube sound that 
retains
> good detail and HF phase etc, expect to pay quite a lot more. A 
cheap
> tube pre might be quite useful on "too clean" synths though, as the
> poster above suggests, but I wouldn't want one as my only mic pre.
> 

that's really depressing reading John
I would have thought the Joe Meek would have been great.

what are the focusrite platinum pre-amps like - i have some greens 
which no-one could part me from.
i'm sure focusrite couldn't make anything terrible!

steve parker

steve parker wrote:
> what are the focusrite platinum pre-amps like - i have some greens
> which no-one could part me from.
> i'm sure focusrite couldn't make anything terrible!

I've got a penta that I use mostly for vocals, but I tried it on other stuff
too (it's stereo). Nice little machine :-))

Gert
www.waveworld.tv

> John Pitcairn wrote......
> 
>> I found the cheap tube pres I've heard (Blue Tube, Digi Tube, Studio
>> Projects, Joe Meek, Behringer) all seemed rather strangled and unmusical,
>> certainly no "better" than the pres in a Mackie desk, just different - more
>> like a tube guitar preamp on low gain. The Symetrix wiped the floor with
>> them.
> 
> that's really depressing reading John I would have thought the Joe Meek would
> have been great.
> 
I have a Joe Meek VC2 and it is truly great. They do make quite a few
models, maybe John was talking about their low end stuff.

Teddybut

--- In logic-ot@yahoogroups.com, teddybut <kumpkin@e...> wrote:
> I have a Joe Meek VC2 and it is truly great. They do make quite a few
> models, maybe John was talking about their low end stuff.

I was. Can't remember the model, and didn't have musch time to put it
through its paces, but the Symetrix wiped the floor with it.

The low-end tube pres I've seen all seem to use a 12AX7 tube running
at what I guess is fairly low voltage (otherwise the power supply
would be a lot bigger & heavier, as would the case). That's basically
a recipe for a guitar stomp-box, not a mic pre. If my Sovtek Big Muff
had balanced i/o and a bit less drive, would that make it a mic pre?
(Hmmmm, he thinks....)

John Pitcairn

John Pitcairn wrote:
> --- In logic-ot@yahoogroups.com, teddybut <kumpkin@e...> wrote:
>> I have a Joe Meek VC2 and it is truly great. They do make quite a few
>> models, maybe John was talking about their low end stuff.
> 
> I was. Can't remember the model, and didn't have musch time to put it
> through its paces, but the Symetrix wiped the floor with it.
> 
> The low-end tube pres I've seen all seem to use a 12AX7 tube running
> at what I guess is fairly low voltage (otherwise the power supply
> would be a lot bigger & heavier, as would the case). That's basically
> a recipe for a guitar stomp-box, not a mic pre. If my Sovtek Big Muff
> had balanced i/o and a bit less drive, would that make it a mic pre?
> (Hmmmm, he thinks....)

So what happens if you exchange the valves? Will the machine get better?

Gert
www.waveworld.tv

>--- In logic-ot@yahoogroups.com, teddybut <kumpkin@e...> wrote:
>>  I have a Joe Meek VC2 and it is truly great. They do make quite a few
>>  models, maybe John was talking about their low end stuff.
>
>I was. Can't remember the model, and didn't have musch time to put it
>through its paces, but the Symetrix wiped the floor with it.
>
>The low-end tube pres I've seen all seem to use a 12AX7 tube running
>at what I guess is fairly low voltage (otherwise the power supply
>would be a lot bigger & heavier, as would the case). That's basically
>a recipe for a guitar stomp-box, not a mic pre. If my Sovtek Big Muff
>had balanced i/o and a bit less drive, would that make it a mic pre?
>(Hmmmm, he thinks....)

Not that having a tube or not is the determining factor in what makes 
a decent mic pre but, if the discussion is about tube mic pres AFAIK 
low end Joe Meeks don't qualify because none of them have tubes.  The 
only Joe Meek device I know of that does is the VC2 and its tube is 
in the *output* stage.  Joe Meek's naming strategy was weird.  The 
VC1 was their best bang per buck device but not the top of their 
line.  The VC2 was the top and the VC3 was the bottom.  I have a VC2 
and had a VC3.  The VC3 was far and away the worst mic pre I ever 
owned.

--- In logic-ot@yahoogroups.com, "Gert van Santen" <g.vansanten@c...>
wrote:
> So what happens if you exchange the valves? Will the machine get 
> better?

Maybe. I've never done so on low-voltage 12AX7 stuff. But probably not
much better without also beefing up the plate voltage, which will
likely mean exchanging the power supply and modifying the supply
circuit, if it can be done at all. Then you'll want to look at the
quality of any capacitors & op-amps in the circuit, resistor/capacitor
values, decent grounding, and on it goes. Good parts don't come cheap.
By the time you've finished, it would likely have been better to just
work a bit harder, save a bit longer, and buy a better preamp in the
first place. And for X dollars, you'll always be able to buy a better
solid state pre than a valve pre.

Guitar amps, on the other hand, run the valves at the voltages they
were designed for (often 100V and up) and in my experience are often a
fine candidate for a bit of simple valve exchanging, especially after
a few years use - if you have a friendly valve-amp tech guy and a
supply of assorted matched valve pairs, an afternoon's swapping and
testing can be very rewarding.

John Pitcairn

--- In logic-ot@yahoogroups.com, Dennis Gunn <dennis@s...> wrote:
> The VC3 was far and away the worst mic pre I ever 
> owned.

I think that's what I tested. Crud. I thought it had a tube in it but
I guess not.

If I want to make stuff sound murky, distorted and snotty, I'll record
it through a clean pre anyway so I don't munt it on the way in, then
send/return it to something external at mixdown. A miked-up little
cigarette-pack amp/speaker in a closet down the hall, or run it
through the amp section of an old valve record player (that actually
sounds rather nice), or something like that :-)

John Pitcairn

please let me know peeps!!!
ASAP

thanx alot


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It would seem to me that there would be a possibility to have severe clipping take place if the voltage was low~ all other things being equal~

I haven't even thought about tubes since around 1968 when I went through electronic school. . .


At 07:05 AM 9/26/03 +0000, you wrote:
>Maybe. I've never done so on low-voltage 12AX7 stuff. But probably not
>much better without also beefing up the plate voltage, 

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