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Buying a Mac?

Buying a Mac?

2004-02-08 by litepipe

Hello everyone. I have a bit of a question. I at a position where my p.c.
is at it's max. I have a 1gig P3 with 512mb ram and 2 hard drives with Win
XP. It just can't handle my mixes. For some reason It's hardly able to
handle a whole lot anymore. I'm not exactly sure what the problem is and I'm
tired of playing around with Windows systems. My qestion is this.....If I
buy a Mac will I have to endlessly mess with it and tweak it to work? How
easy are they to set up? How often do they crash? Do I need to have 2 hard
drives?
  I'm looking at the dual 1.8 gig processor. What kind of track count can I
expect and how many plug-ins can I expect on average? What will the 2nd
processor do for me?
  I'm at a point now where I can do one of two things. I'm frustrated and I
was thinking of taking my project into a studio for mixing at $50 an hour.
Or I can bite the bullet and buy a Mac. What do you think? I want a computer
that is going to act like a stand alone machine. I mean the stability of a
stand alone machine.
  Also, would I be able to port all the 24 bit wave files I recorded on to
p.c. into the Mac? I'll be using Logic Platinum and Cubase SX.
  Thanks for your time!!

  --litepipe

Re: [L-OT] Buying a Mac?

2004-02-08 by Paul Crowley

>   Hello everyone. I have a bit of a question. I at a position where my 
> p.c.
> is at it's max. I have a 1gig P3 with 512mb ram and 2 hard drives with 
> Win
> XP. It just can't handle my mixes. For some reason It's hardly able to
> handle a whole lot anymore. I'm not exactly sure what the problem is 
> and I'm
> tired of playing around with Windows systems. My qestion is 
> this.....If I
> buy a Mac will I have to endlessly mess with it and tweak it to work? 
> How
> easy are they to set up? How often do they crash? Do I need to have 2 
> hard
> drives?

It's hard to give you a "definitve" answer, but I would have thought 
that the mac would be very good for you compared to the 1 Gig PC.
You don't say what soundcard you'd be using, and this is likely to be 
the cause of most of your problems, or most of your joy!
I'm planning on getting a G5 sometime soon, but currently use an old G4 
450.
Under OSX 10.2.8 with an RME Hammerfall Multiface audio card (which I 
can highly recommend), I have a very stable (but slightly slow) system.
As for the two drives - it really depends on the kind of work (and 
track count) that you do. Obviously, it's better to have 2, but you may 
find one enough. You could always add it later I guess.

One last thing - I'd really wait a couple of weeks. There have been 
many rumours and signs that the G5s are about to be refreshed. You may 
find that the dual 1.8 becomes a dual 2.4 for the same money in a 
matter of weeks. If that's likely to upset you, wait a week or two!

Re: [L-OT] Buying a Mac?

2004-02-08 by Per Boysen

On 04-02-08 08.22,  "litepipe" <litepipe@...> wrote:

> My qestion is this.....If I
> buy a Mac will I have to endlessly mess with it and tweak it to work?

I've been producing music with Macs for ten years, and with PCs for five,
and the only serious Mac problems I have run into is getting spare parts
when your machine becomes "last years model". It's funny that the G5 and
Panther the Mac now feels to me like a PC with Win XP, but only more
efficient at the OS level. There was a huge difference when the last OSX
update arrived (Jaguar to Panther), but still Logic 5.5.1 on my P4 Win XP is
more stable than my recent set-up with Logic 6.3.2 on a dual 2 GHz G5 and OS
10.30.2 - in my experience. But than I have to add that I almost never had a
crash on PC and very rarely with the G5. And OSX appears to evolve much
faster than Win XP, I own both and keep up with online updates.


>  2 hard
> drives?

Definitely! I have three. Two internal and one external firewire 800 drive
to move projects to other studios.


> I'm looking at the dual 1.8 gig processor.

You should wait until the next line of G5's get released, if you can. Then
you would get a better price.

> What kind of track count

Really don't know. Seems to be almost endless ;-)  However I'm almost maxing
out my CPU's by slaving Ableton Live by ReWire and piping eight virtual
tracks into Logic while applying EQ, Envelope plug-in, and some compressors.
I guess that high CPU use comes with Live. So plug-ins and running different
programs simultaneously is where the CPU drain kicks in - not by track
count.


On 04-02-08 09.24,  "Dennis Gunn" <dennis@...> wrote:

> One thing that Panther (OS 10.3) does that is really fantastic is
> monitor file usage and optimize your disk so that the most often
> accessed files are on the fastest part of the disk.

Oh, I didn't know that! Cool! I've been thinking of the danger of suddenly
running into disc fragmentation. My strategy on the G5 is to have a lot of
hard drive space (even one drive partitioned into smaller areas) so I can
simply move files to another drive, reformatting and finally move the files
back. That's a quick method. On older Mac systems I used Norton Disc
Utilites but that's too time consuming when defragging huge drives. And  on
the PCs I do it in Win XP or Partitions Magic.

Best regards

Per Boysen
-- 
http://www.boysen.se
Public Music Beta Testing http://www.looproom.com/p2p/

RE: [L-OT] Buying a Mac?

2004-02-08 by Murray McDowall

Dennis Gunn wrote:
>>  >Yes but in my personal experience not nearly so much as you have to
>>>dick around with a PC to keep it working.
>>
>>There is only one important tweak in XP - processor scheduling. Other than
>>that no other tweaks are really necessary.
>
>Yeah right.

Turning off display/menu animations and the Processor Scheduling thing does
the business for me with XP. 

Logic and my sound card (RME Hammerfall DSP) worked out of the box on the
P4 machine I built for myself  - just the default install of XP Pro. 


>>The fact that you_can_tweak
>>windows to a high level shouldnt be confused with having_to_tweak windows.
>
>Stop it you're killing me.

What did you have to do to Windows XP to make Logic run well on your PC?

Regards,
Murray

Re: [L-OT] Buying a Mac?

2004-02-08 by litepipe

"Dennis Gunn" wrote:

> >   I'm looking at the dual 1.8 gig processor. What kind of track count
can I
> >expect and how many plug-ins can I expect on average?
>
> I have a dual 2 gig and I never run out of tracks so I never bother to
count.

  I really meant to ask about plug-in count.

> OTOH certain plugins will run you into trouble if you are not carful.
> Certain patches on the Moog Modular can use up my whole CPU.

  I guess there is no real way to figure out a basic plug-in count. Right
now I'm using a lot of PSP plug-ins. I really like their new E.Q. For some
reason when I have about 6 open my computer is about maxed and starts to
stutter. I need to get something that will allow me to do a little more than
this.

> >What will the 2nd
> >processor do for me?
>
> Give about twice as much power exactly like it is supposed to.

  Is it litereally twice as much?

> About 4 or 5 days in the studio = 1 mac 1.8 ghz.

  Yeah, but I'm not sure exactly how much studio time I was going to book.
I'm only going to mix 3 songs. I was thinking of about 2 days, so a Mac is
still a little more expensive. I'm kind of leaning towards a Mac because
even after I mix the 3 songs I'm still going to continue to work and it
would just be easier on a new machine.

> >What do you think? I want a computer
> >that is going to act like a stand alone machine. I mean the stability of
a
> >stand alone machine.
>
> I don't think that exists but if you run panther and are careful
> about what plugins you use Macs come pretty close.

  The strange thing is my machine has been pretty good to me overall. XP has
been very solid, but for some reason over the past couple of monts my system
has been slowing down and I don't know why or how to get it back (maybe a
re-install). It's a studio only p.c. with only audio apps on it and I'm
using a RME Multiface.

  --litepipe

Re: [L-OT] Buying a Mac?

2004-02-08 by litepipe

"Paul Crowley" wrote:
> You don't say what soundcard you'd be using, and this is likely to be
> the cause of most of your problems, or most of your joy!

  I forgot to mention and was going to ask if anyone is using my card:-))
I'm using the same card as you..A RME Multiface.

> As for the two drives - it really depends on the kind of work (and
> track count) that you do. Obviously, it's better to have 2, but you may
> find one enough. You could always add it later I guess.

  On average I would say I usually use about 32 tracks.

> One last thing - I'd really wait a couple of weeks. There have been
> many rumours and signs that the G5s are about to be refreshed. You may
> find that the dual 1.8 becomes a dual 2.4 for the same money in a
> matter of weeks. If that's likely to upset you, wait a week or two!

  Thanks for the tip!!

  --litepipe

Re: [L-OT] Buying a Mac?

2004-02-08 by litepipe

"Per Boysen" wrote:

> > What kind of track count
>
> Really don't know. Seems to be almost endless ;-)  However I'm almost
maxing
> out my CPU's by slaving Ableton Live by ReWire and piping eight virtual
> tracks into Logic while applying EQ, Envelope plug-in, and some
compressors.
> I guess that high CPU use comes with Live. So plug-ins and running
different
> programs simultaneously is where the CPU drain kicks in - not by track
> count.


  I really meant to ask about maxing out the CPU. I'm recording mostly
acoustic instruments (very few VST instruments). I record dry (around 32
tracks) as to save my options for mixdown. So that's where I'm running into
trouble. I don't have a lot of head room to be able to play with a mix. It
is completely maxed before I can even get to the whole mix. It used to be
better than this. I don't know what happed. One day it was just more
problematic. Before that it was really solid and I never had to touch it. I
didn't change anything or add new software/hardware for atleast a year.
  I have to be able to add compression and e.q. to quite a few tracks. I'm
using SX a lot these days and it can bounce the fx right to the track but my
CPU is becoming so slow that printing fx is even painful. I also think that
SX is more of a CPU hog than Logic.

  --litepipe

Re: [L-OT] Buying a Mac?

2004-02-08 by litepipe

"Adam Pendse" wrote:

> There is only one important tweak in XP - processor scheduling. Other than
> that no other tweaks are really necessary. The fact that you_can_tweak
> windows to a high level shouldnt be confused with having_to_tweak windows.

  Do you mean set processor scheduling to background?

> >This keeps your system from slowing down with age.
> >Which like you is something that I have witnessed on windows machines
> >as well.
>
> Oh yeh, the mysterious slowing down virus ;-)

  How do you get rid of it? Reformat and re-install?

> Dont forget you'll need to get mac versions of all your plugs and software
> etc. Time to setup etc etc - i'd mix it in a studio if its important.

  The time set-up thing worries me. It's my project I'm going to mix. It's
important and I don't want any (or as few as possible) frustrations. I've
grown to dislike trouble shooting.

> Or get
> a UAD/Powercore fx card. Both highly compatible with PCs and way cheaper
> than a mac. Both cards will give you excellent plugins which run on their
> own hardware - no extra strain on your pc.

  With one UAD card roughly how many tracks can you add compression and e.q.
to? Can you put two UAD cards in one machine? How good is the e.q. on this
card? I forgot about having to get Mac versions of all my plugs. I don't
really have that many. I have almost all the PSP plugs (which is what I'm
maxing out my CPU with) the B4 and M-Tron. Well, I guess that's enough.



> >What do you think? I want a computer
> >that is going to act like a stand alone machine. I mean the stability of
>a
> stand alone machine.
>
> You could look at Linux ;-) Or if youre in the UK drop me a line privately
> and i'll put you in touch with a guy that makes rackmountable pro-audio
pcs.

  Thanks Adam, but I'm in the U.S.

  --litepipe

Re: [L-OT] Buying a Mac?

2004-02-08 by litepipe

"Murray McDowall" wrote:
> Turning off display/menu animations and the Processor Scheduling thing
does
> the business for me with XP.

  Where is processor scheduling at? I know I must have tweaked that, but I
don't remember.

> Logic and my sound card (RME Hammerfall DSP) worked out of the box on the
> P4 machine I built for myself  - just the default install of XP Pro.

  It worked for me for a while too. Now, I'm having trouble:-((

  --litepipe

Re: [L-OT] Buying a Mac?

2004-02-08 by litepipe

"Dennis Gunn"

> The major differences between me and him that I could see was that
> one he had been dealing with them so long he knew exactly what to do
> when a problem came up and therefore seem to kind of deal with them
> unconsciously so in his mind he was telling me the truth when he said
> he never had any problems.


  I must say, I believe there is some truth in this. I think on Windows you
kind of have to be a p.c. geek waiting for something to happen and it
eventually does. This is not my first Windows box. When I had my 1st one, I
learned how to tweak out my ass with Win 98. I learned a lot about building
a system. It was almost like I had to be deeper into the p.c. side than
making music. Well, I built a stable system with a Multiface and XP. Used
the same hardware and software for atleast (I'm sure it's well over) a year.
NO changes!! Now I have problems. A Windows re-install would be a real pain
in the ass!! I did enough of this shit on my old p.c. to be forever sick of
it. I just want to make music!! I want a machine to do it's job. I don't
install every demo on the planet (none infact). It's very frustrating. Maybe
this happens on most computers to some degree and I would probably be
happier behind a Neve console. Unfortunately I can't afford that leading me
to to computers.

  --litepipe

Re: [L-OT] Buying a Mac?

2004-02-09 by mercutio

On Sunday, February 8, 2004, at 12:38 PM, litepipe wrote:

>   I forgot to mention and was going to ask if anyone is using my 
> card:-))
> I'm using the same card as you..A RME Multiface.

RME drivers are solid on both platforms imho.

great hardware, great drivers

nuff said

RE: [L-OT] Buying a Mac?

2004-02-09 by Murray McDowall

Dennis Gunn wrote:

>Basically from what I have seen you are not intentionally lying but 
>not really telling the whole truth in that like I said there is a 
>whole raft of shit you as a PC user do so automatically that you just 
>are not aware of it any more.

>I am not a fan of Windows systems but I came by my dislike of PCs 
>honestly and at personal expense.  I had no opinion about them at all 
>and I could never see why people argued about it. I listened to my 
>Mac bashing friends and kept an open mind about the issue and in the 
>end thought "OK this thing is faster and cheaper and will do what I 
>need I'll buy one".  I bought it and found that all this "simple, 
>more stable, more wonderful" talk was just a crock of shit.  At that 
>time PCs were faster, and yes there is more software available, as 
>for the rest of the argument, forget it, Macs are easy to use and 
>require comparatively little tweaking, the new ones are quite 
>powerful and the latest OS adds pretty much everything meaningful 
>that was missing from "classic" (OS7~9.xx) systems and also 
>incorporates most of the good aspects of the Windows system as well.
>
>I do find the denial by some PC users that they have any problems a 
>little annoying, since buying that line at face ended up having me 
>end up spending about $2500 buck and wasting a couple months of my 
>time.   Now I pay more attention when I see the very same guys 
>screaming that they have no problems shouting about a litany of 
>problems the next day when the topic of conversation has moved away 
>from a Mac PC platform war.
>
>If you are happy with your Windows system that's great, if you can 
>keep it running and productive, wonderful.
>
>If the next Windows box that comes out runs a 6ghz costs 50$ and 
>blows the doors off any Mac one earth fantastic.
>
>If your are going to tell me that staying productive on a Windows 
>machine is easier than or even as easy as it is on a Mac, forget it.
>
>>You may have had a bad experience once but its safe to come out now mate.
>
>I started up my PC lots of times and pretty much every one of them 
>was a bad experience.  I will not buy one of those things again it 
>sucked up too much of my time.  The next time I start up my PC, which 
>is currently sitting in a closet, it will be to wipe the discs and 
>sell it.

Hi Dennis,

You have good hardware as far as Audio interfaces (RME-  I use the same) -
the UAD 1 complicates things a little but apparently people are happy with
them. 

In all of the above -- and your previous messages -- at no stage do you
mention specific problems or the specs of your machine (Mobo/what brand of
memory etc). Just this mysterious plague of problems which darenot speak
their name. If tweaks were applied maybe they screwed with the reliability
of the machine -- I really don't know. 

On forums frequented by PC people you get people saying "I use this board
and everything is great" OR "I had this problem when I used the following
combination". All PCs are not created equal and I would tend to suspect the
combination of hardware you used. If your hardware was kosher I would
wonder about the advice of your expert friends.

If your Mac is working well and you are comfortable with it then I guess
the story ends happily.

Regards,
Murray

Re: [L-OT] Buying a Mac?

2004-02-09 by Murray McDowall

litepipe wrote:

>  I must say, I believe there is some truth in this. I think on Windows you
>kind of have to be a p.c. geek waiting for something to happen and it
>eventually does. This is not my first Windows box. When I had my 1st one, I
>learned how to tweak out my ass with Win 98. I learned a lot about building
>a system. It was almost like I had to be deeper into the p.c. side than
>making music. Well, I built a stable system with a Multiface and XP. Used
>the same hardware and software for atleast (I'm sure it's well over) a year.
>NO changes!! Now I have problems. 

I have done the same - 13 months ago I built a P4 based system and it has
been reliable. I have not needed to change. I am surprised that you built a
PIII 1000 system for running Logic so recently - perhaps you already had
the hardware and just used the new OS. 

Intel PIII has a fraction of the memory bandwidth of Northwood P4 /P4 C
and the number of plugin instances is drastically down. My PIII 800 ran
about 14 Plat Verbs and my Northwood P4 2.4 clocked to 2.6 runs 59.  As far
as compressors etc - I use  lot of PSP stuff too - the P4 leaves the old
PIII in the dust easily 2  or 3 times as many instances. 

If you use a lot of PC only software/plugins I would consider upgrading to
something like P4 2.8 or 3.0 C/Asus P4C800E Deluxe/1 - 2 Gig of DDR 400.
You will probably need a new P4 compatible power supply and 3.3 V AGP card
but the total price would be of the order of 6 - $800 US at a guess -- a
bit cheaper than a G5 and I wouldn't consider any Mac other than a G5. 

>A Windows re-install would be a real pain
>in the ass!! I did enough of this shit on my old p.c. to be forever sick of
>it. I just want to make music!! I want a machine to do it's job. I don't
>install every demo on the planet (none infact).

I install heaps of them and beta test (sometimes) buggy plugins for
developers. My machine seems to cope with it without any lasting problems -
I might have to shut it down and restart a few times when I am testing the
circumstances that bring on a bug related crash but but the machine does
not become problematic - I just report the bug and test the new version
when it comes and move on. 

BYW You did go with NTFS as your files system didn't you? It is much more
secure than FAT32. For one thing, NTFS is a journalling file system. 

Regards,
Murray

Re: [L-OT] Buying a Mac?

2004-02-09 by litepipe

"Dennis Gunn" wrote:


>  I
> belong to several users forums and I hear all about the problems
> UAD-1 users are having on both platforms.  I experience the Mac
> variety of UAD-1 problems on my Platform.

  This worries me...Could you elaborate a little? There are problems with
the UAD-1? I was considering going with the UAD-1. I'm trying to avoid
headaches though. I'm starting to think I'm just better of renting studio
time and going in and mixing it.

  --litepipe

Re: [L-OT] Buying a Mac?

2004-02-09 by litepipe

"Murray McDowall" wrote:

>  I am surprised that you built a
> PIII 1000 system for running Logic so recently - perhaps you already had
> the hardware and just used the new OS.

  I'm sorry, I meant I've been using XP and Cubase SX for a little over a
year. I built the P3 system well before that.

> If you use a lot of PC only software/plugins I would consider upgrading to
> something like P4 2.8 or 3.0 C/Asus P4C800E Deluxe/1 - 2 Gig of DDR 400.
> You will probably need a new P4 compatible power supply and 3.3 V AGP card
> but the total price would be of the order of 6 - $800 US at a guess -- a
> bit cheaper than a G5 and I wouldn't consider any Mac other than a G5.

  You're right about the upgrade. I'm just not sure I want to invest in
something that could continue to be an imprefect solution. I don't mean so
sound so bitter. It's just, I want my life to be about music creation
instead of p.c. configurations and software issues. I'm starting to wish I
kept my ADAT and built onto that system. Who knows, it may not have worked
out any better. It just seems that I spent way too more time with my set-up
(pre Multiface) than I did in the creation process. I do enjoy engineering
sessions and producing, I just don't like trouble shooting.

> BYW You did go with NTFS as your files system didn't you? It is much more
> secure than FAT32. For one thing, NTFS is a journalling file system.

  Yup, NTFS. One of the 1st tihgs I did:-))

  --litepipe

Re: [L-OT] Buying a Mac?

2004-02-09 by litepipe

"Adam Pendse" wrote:


>  Maybe your system drive is full? Run a
> system scan utility.

  My system drive is pretty full. It's not at max capacity, but maybe it's
too much. I'll check. Thanks!!

  --litepipe

RE: [L-OT] Buying a Mac?

2004-02-09 by Car-Roll@t-online.de

Well this thread has been of quite some interest for me. I am sorry to see
so many people have had such bad experiences with PCs. I am looking forward
to the purchase of my first Mac around March. I have had very few problems
with Win XP and Logic 5.5. The machine just seems to run and run hence it is
very difficult for me to justify to myself the added expense a Mac entails.
But the justification comes down to one simple fact. If I want to continue
to use Logic as my software I need to buy a Mac on my next computer upgrade.

With Win XP I had an AW Card and recently purchased a RME Multiface no
problems with either. I had problems years ago with a Layla 20 card and Win
98 before Win98SE. But I think the problems had more to do with an early
poorly designed card by Echo rather than a PC or Emagic problem. I really
like using Logic. The other day I had a client over and we were finishing
his project and he kept repeating over and over how good Logic sounds and
how interesting it is to watch me work in it.

To me working with a PC is the same as working with Logic when you first
purchase the program. There are all of these different directions a user can
find themselves going in, directions that they did not anticipate because so
many options are available. In the case of a PC the problem becomes which
Motherboard, HD, RAM, Video Card, Sound Card, etc. With Logic the problem
becomes the options, the nomenclature logic uses, which environmental
objects, what screen sets, which key commands, which editor works best for
me on this particular task, etc. On a PC a bad experience of purchasing
incompatible components because of too many false assumptions or lack of
knowledge on how the different hardware performs together can ruin a buyer�s
perspective on the quality of the OS. In Logic too many false assumptions on
how the software runs without researching the background on the options
available can ruin a buyer�s perspective on the quality of the software. In
both cases it is because the user is overwhelmed by the ability to choose
that causes frustration.

Overall is it better to be able to pick and choose your hardware components
or have the computer company dictate this is what we make use it or not. I
don�t know��

After all of this, Hey does anyone know when those new G5 are going to hit
the market? smile

W.C.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [L-OT] Buying a Mac?

2004-02-09 by Hendrik Jan Veenstra

>  >>If your are going to tell me that staying productive on a Windows
>  >>machine is easier than or even as easy as it is on a Mac, forget it.
>>
>>I am telling you just that.
>
>And every single thing you have said here proves that is utter bullshit.

Guys, guys... isn't there already enough misery in the world as it is?

-- 
Hendrik Jan Veenstra   h @ k n o w a r e . n l
Omega Art: http://www.omega-art.com/

Re: [L-OT] Buying a Mac?

2004-02-09 by Per Boysen

On 04-02-09 19.26,  "Dennis Gunn" <dennis@...> wrote:

>> Guys, guys... isn't there already enough misery in the world as it is?
> 
> Not quite.
> 

He, he, guys... THIS is pure Off-Topic!!!!

Pboy 
(just another dispensable posting ;-)

RE: [L-OT] Buying a Mac?

2004-02-09 by Hendrik Jan Veenstra

On a fine day, 10-02-2004, Dennis Gunn wrote:

>  >Guys, guys... isn't there already enough misery in the world as it is?
>
>Not quite.

Hmm... why didn't I see that one coming? :-)

-- 
Hendrik Jan Veenstra   h @ k n o w a r e . n l
Omega Art: http://www.omega-art.com/

RE: [L-OT] Buying a Mac?

2004-02-09 by Hendrik Jan Veenstra

On a fine day, 09-02-2004, Adam Pendse wrote:

>  >Guys, guys... isn't there already enough misery in the world as it is?
>
>Not yet ;-)

Et tu, Brute?  (*)

Oh well... after years in highschool education, I've (more or less) 
come accustomed to the behaviour of adolescents, so I'll leave you 
two to it if you insist ... :)


(*) "and you as well, Brutus?", spoken by Caesar, when stabbed to 
death by his generals and his stepson Brutus (for the unaware or 
ill-educated)

-- 
Hendrik Jan Veenstra   h @ k n o w a r e . n l
Omega Art: http://www.omega-art.com/

Re: [L-OT] Buying a Mac?

2004-02-10 by mercutio

On Monday, February 9, 2004, at 04:30 PM, Hendrik Jan Veenstra wrote:

> Et tu, Brute?  (*)

why not?

actually I am enjoying this thread - since, I assume the Windex 
inspired MyDoom has somehow caused me to stop receiving LUG posts - but 
somehow left the OT list untouched...  at least I am entertained.

to quote Luciano Berio:

keep going

RE: [L-OT] Buying a Mac?

2004-02-10 by Murray McDowall

Hendrik Jan Veenstra wrote:

>Et tu, Brute?  (*)

[snip]

>(*) "and you as well, Brutus?", spoken by Caesar, when stabbed to 
>death by his generals and his stepson Brutus (for the unaware or 
>ill-educated)

Thanks for that!

Do you, by chance, have a good translation for  "Veni vidi vici"?

Regards,
M

RE: [L-OT] Buying a Mac?

2004-02-10 by Hendrik Jan Veenstra

On a fine day, 10-02-2004, Adam Pendse wrote:

>  >(*) "and you as well, Brutus?", spoken by Caesar, when stabbed to
>>death by his generals and his stepson Brutus (for the unaware or
>>ill-educated)
>
>Wasnt Brutus the real hero of the story Hendrik ? ;-)))

Not sure -- after all it was _Caesar_ who f***ed Cleopatra -- so from 
a certain point of view Caesar at least has earned _some_ amount of 
heroism as well :).

-- 
Hendrik Jan Veenstra   h @ k n o w a r e . n l
Omega Art: http://www.omega-art.com/

RE: [L-OT] Buying a Mac?

2004-02-10 by Hendrik Jan Veenstra

On a fine day, 10-02-2004, Murray McDowall wrote:

>Do you, by chance, have a good translation for  "Veni vidi vici"?

I came, I saw, I conquered.

-- 
Hendrik Jan Veenstra   h @ k n o w a r e . n l
Omega Art: http://www.omega-art.com/

RE: [L-OT] Buying a Mac?

2004-02-10 by Murray McDowall

At 08:45 AM 2/10/04 +0100, you wrote:
>On a fine day, 10-02-2004, Murray McDowall wrote:
>
>>Do you, by chance, have a good translation for  "Veni vidi vici"?
>
>I came, I saw, I conquered.

Am I to take it that irony is wasted on you?

Regards,
M

Re: [L-OT] Buying a Mac?

2004-02-10 by Bill Canty

Hendrik Jan Veenstra wrote:
> On a fine day, 10-02-2004, Murray McDowall wrote:
> 
> 
>>Do you, by chance, have a good translation for  "Veni vidi vici"?
> 
> 
> I came, I saw, I conquered.

Closely related to: "Veni vidi visa" which means "I came, I saw, I did a 
bit of shopping" ;-)

Re: [L-OT] Buying a Mac?

2004-02-10 by Hans Hafner

At 2:11 Uhr +1100 11.02.2004, Bill Canty wrote:
>Hendrik Jan Veenstra wrote:
>  > I came, I saw, I conquered.
>
>Closely related to: "Veni vidi visa" which means "I came, I saw, I did a
>bit of shopping" ;-)
>

LOL

Cheers
Hans

RE: [L-OT] Buying a Mac?

2004-02-10 by Hendrik Jan Veenstra

On a fine day, 10-02-2004, Murray McDowall wrote:

>At 08:45 AM 2/10/04 +0100, you wrote:
>>On a fine day, 10-02-2004, Murray McDowall wrote:
>>
>>>Do you, by chance, have a good translation for  "Veni vidi vici"?
>>
>>I came, I saw, I conquered.
>
>Am I to take it that irony is wasted on you?

I thought that completely ignoring the irony was funniest.  At least 
to me it was at the time I wrote the reply :).

-- 
Hendrik Jan Veenstra   h @ k n o w a r e . n l
Omega Art: http://www.omega-art.com/

Re: [L-OT] Buying a Mac?

2004-02-10 by Hendrik Jan Veenstra

On a fine day, 11-02-2004, Bill Canty wrote:
>Hendrik Jan Veenstra wrote:
>  > On a fine day, 10-02-2004, Murray McDowall wrote:
>  >
>  >>Do you, by chance, have a good translation for  "Veni vidi vici"?
>>
>  > I came, I saw, I conquered.
>
>Closely related to: "Veni vidi visa" which means "I came, I saw, I did a
>bit of shopping" ;-)

ROTFL !

-- 
Hendrik Jan Veenstra   h @ k n o w a r e . n l
Omega Art: http://www.omega-art.com/

RE: [L-OT] Buying a Mac?

2004-02-11 by Murray McDowall

Hendrik Jan Veenstra  wrote:

>>Am I to take it that irony is wasted on you?
>
>I thought that completely ignoring the irony was funniest.  At least 
>to me it was at the time I wrote the reply :).

3 o'clock and all is well.

Regards,
M

RE: [L-OT] Buying a Mac?

2004-02-11 by Hendrik Jan Veenstra

On a fine day, 11-02-2004, Murray McDowall wrote:

>Hendrik Jan Veenstra  wrote:
>
>>>Am I to take it that irony is wasted on you?
>>
>>I thought that completely ignoring the irony was funniest.  At least
>>to me it was at the time I wrote the reply :).
>
>3 o'clock and all is well.

I'm sorry, but I'm _sure_ it's not 3 o'clock *at all*... If it were, 
I would be sleeping, and since I'm not, it's not.

-- 
Hendrik Jan Veenstra   h @ k n o w a r e . n l
Omega Art: http://www.omega-art.com/

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