The Logic Off Topic list

I was wondering if anyone may be able to offer me some advice on a dilema I 
am in.

I ordered a G4 1.25Ghz computer from mac mall a few weeks back. My only 
problem was the $111 shipping charge for grund, but because of my work 
situation which doesn't allow for much free time to shop around, etc I 
decided to just bite the bullet. I ended up calling back and asking them if 
they can include the extra ram option (for $40 installation fee) as 
advertised on the web page, and confirmed that price.

Sortly after I called UPS to ask about the cost of shipping a package of 
that size and weight across country. THe cost was $40. For some reason I 
checked the order status to double check the exact amount only to find that 
they charged me $138 for the RAM. Between the over inflation of the 
shipping and over charging of the RAM I did what anyone would do. I called 
to cancel the order. However I was told that only the original sales man 
could cancel it and he was gone for the weekend. But the person I was 
talking to said not to worry, just refuse the package and they can give me 
a refund when it comes back to them. So I waited a week for the package to 
return and called to check on it. Then I am told that it can't be returned 
without an RA# and without one shipping just bounces it back to me. They 
said to accept the package and then I can get an RA# to return it. After 
accepting the package I called only to be told that the item is 
non-returnable because it has already been shipped. When I give them the 
above argument I am told too bad , it's not returnabe and there will be no 
refund on the over charge. I am then transfered to a manager to leave a 
voice message and not get a call back. The reason for the no return was due 
to Apple's policy according to the salesman,

So I called Apple asking for help since thier return policy doesn't allow 
computers to be returned. The first response is 'That's absolutely untrue'. 
I end up talking to an Apple rep in charge of the macmall account (BTW the 
people at apple were very cool to talk to as oppose to mac mall who didn't 
really seem to care). He basically told me that it was a stock computer, 
not custom assembled and ordered in a bundle of 100 simillar computers. But 
there is a chance they may legally be right at macmall since the box has 
been opened by them. For those who don't know, Macmall I think opens every 
box to inspect it, then closes it up and puts an inspection sticker on it. 
This starts to smell like a scam to me.

I called the credit card company, but because I accepted the package they 
can't do anything about it. I couldn't cancel the order, and I can't return 
it. I would imagine there must be some kind of laws against this or some 
kind of consumer rights to protect against this. Does anyone have any 
experience or knowledge in this area that may be able to help? In the mean 
tiem I am waiting to hear from a manager and apple is going to talk to them 
about it. Hopefully that will resolve things, but any advice is 
appreciated. Thanks!

Colin Miller

--- In logic-ot@yahoogroups.com, Colin L Miller <logicuser@m...> wrote:
> I was wondering if anyone may be able to offer me some advice on a dilema I 
> am in.
[...]

> I called the credit card company, but because I accepted the package they 
> can't do anything about it. I couldn't cancel the order, and I can't return 
> it. I would imagine there must be some kind of laws against this or some 
> kind of consumer rights to protect against this. Does anyone have any 
> experience or knowledge in this area that may be able to help? In the mean 
> tiem I am waiting to hear from a manager and apple is going to talk to them 
> about it. Hopefully that will resolve things, but any advice is 
> appreciated. Thanks!

hey colin, sorry to hear about your trouble.

IANAL (I'm not a lawyer), but I think you have the right to return a purchase on 
merchandise within 30 days of purchase. You'll probably be out the cost of shipping, in 
which case you might want to just eat the damage and keep your new G4 but if you can 
find a cheaper way to return it, I think that's an option.

Alternatively, does your credit card have any sort of purchase protection on it? They might 
back you up on this.

good luck. The whole "Only the original salesguy can cancel" sounds pretty dubious to me.

rob

On 4/8/04 7:00 PM, "Colin L Miller" wrote:

> I was wondering if anyone may be able to offer me some advice on a dilema I
> am in.
> 
> I ordered a G4 1.25Ghz computer from mac mall a few weeks back. My only
> problem was the $111 shipping charge for grund, but because of my work
> situation which doesn't allow for much free time to shop around, etc I
> decided to just bite the bullet. I ended up calling back and asking them if
> they can include the extra ram option (for $40 installation fee) as
> advertised on the web page, and confirmed that price.

Sometimes they charge you full price for the ram and then you need to send
in a rebate to get the money back minus the $40 installation fee. If not
maybe someone just screwed up, just have them refund the money to you,
there's no reason you would have needed to cancel the order, just get your
money back. You can go to the web site and see that the offer is still
valid. I don't know where you live (I'm in NYC) but if I go the the macmall
site right now I can get that computer shipped to me for $58 ups ground + a
rebate that brings it down to around $30 I think. Go to the web site and see
for your self these two issues and then call macmall and ask them why you
were charged extra for both and that you want the difference refunded.


>For those who don't know, Macmall I think opens every
> box to inspect it, then closes it up and puts an inspection sticker on it.
> This starts to smell like a scam to me.
> 

How do you think macmall installed the ram? They opened the box and the
computer to install it! In no way shape or form is macmall a scam I have
been ordering from them for years and for the most part are great.

-andy

At 10:51 AM 4/9/2004, you wrote:

>Sometimes they charge you full price for the ram and then you need to send
>in a rebate to get the money back minus the $40 installation fee. If not
>maybe someone just screwed up, just have them refund the money to you,
>there's no reason you would have needed to cancel the order, just get your
>money back. You can go to the web site and see that the offer is still
>valid. I don't know where you live (I'm in NYC) but if I go the the macmall
>site right now I can get that computer shipped to me for $58 ups ground + a
>rebate that brings it down to around $30 I think. Go to the web site and see
>for your self these two issues and then call macmall and ask them why you
>were charged extra for both and that you want the difference refunded.

When I did call to ask, the reply was "Too bad', you won't get a refund and 
there would be no money back on the shipping. I asked very detailed about 
the shipping and they said thats the ful cost and there are no rebates or 
anything like that. I also rechecked the RAM upgrade which DOES NOT require 
a rebate according to their web site. I have also left messages for the 
salesman AND the manager and have received NO return calls. BTW I live in 
LA, and Macmall is in LA. Yet in the time it took them to ground ship an 
instock compnuter for $111 I ordered another from apple with free shipping 
and it arrived 2 days before Mcalmall (and I ordered it several days after).

So let's get this right.

1) $90 overcharge on shipping with no rebate or discount
2) $100 overcharge on RAM with no rebate whch counters their advertising
3) Not allowed to cancel an ordr I do not want
4) Not allowed to return an order I did not want sent (which they blame on 
apple who says that is not appropriate behavior)
5) I am told to accept a package I don't want so I wil be allowed to return 
it, then told I can't return it because I acceted it.
6) I am being avoided by the salesman and manager

Now I ask, is this appropriate behavior of a company?



>How do you think macmall installed the ram? They opened the box and the
>computer to install it! In no way shape or form is macmall a scam I have
>been ordering from them for years and for the most part are great.
>
You missed the point Andy, its obvious they open EVERY compuer regardless 
of putting ram in it. Using the notion of quality inspection. Do you think 
Apple does not inspect their computers? Also the ram upgrade is a feature 
that I am sure many people ask for so the computer can easily be resold. 
Not to mention that apple still considers it a stock unti and returnable. 
My particular machine according to serial number was ordered in a shipment 
of 100 identical units from Apple several days before I ordered it.

I will keep everyone updated as Apple said they are currently 
investigating. I just want to forwarn anyone who is thining of doing 
business with these people.

Colin Miller

On 4/9/04 3:29 PM, "Colin L Miller" wrote:

> 
> When I did call to ask, the reply was "Too bad', you won't get a refund and
> there would be no money back on the shipping. I asked very detailed about
> the shipping and they said thats the ful cost and there are no rebates or
> anything like that. I also rechecked the RAM upgrade which DOES NOT require
> a rebate according to their web site. I have also left messages for the
> salesman AND the manager and have received NO return calls. BTW I live in
> LA, and Macmall is in LA. Yet in the time it took them to ground ship an
> instock compnuter for $111 I ordered another from apple with free shipping
> and it arrived 2 days before Mcalmall (and I ordered it several days after).
> 
> So let's get this right.
> 
> 1) $90 overcharge on shipping with no rebate or discount
> 2) $100 overcharge on RAM with no rebate whch counters their advertising

It's strange your right. I dunno whether you just got a bad seed and manager
or what. I have never had this much problems with them. Talk to someone
different and get to another manager and keep working your way up. Just have
the web site pulled up in front of you with shipping costs and ram ect.. If
you bother them enough they will give in. Also threaten to call the district
attorneys office in California to make a complaint about them, sometime they
are told to give in if something like that is brought up.

> 3) Not allowed to cancel an ordr I do not want

Most places wont let you do this. Ever try to cancel as order from Dell?
forget about it.

> 4) Not allowed to return an order I did not want sent (which they blame on
> apple who says that is not appropriate behavior)

It's on macmall's page

http://www.macmall.com/macmall/information/customer_service/returns.asp

Unfortunately this is true of a lot of computer and electronics online
companies, it's not a shady thing it's just fact.

>> 
> You missed the point Andy, its obvious they open EVERY compuer regardless
> of putting ram in it. Using the notion of quality inspection. Do you think
> Apple does not inspect their computers? Also the ram upgrade is a feature
> that I am sure many people ask for so the computer can easily be resold.
> Not to mention that apple still considers it a stock unti and returnable.
> My particular machine according to serial number was ordered in a shipment
> of 100 identical units from Apple several days before I ordered it.
> 

Why is it obvious they open every computer?

You know this is just part of trend of dishonesty on the part of many 
companies. I called AOL tech support and then they shuttled me to a free offer of $25 
for AOL net use, I never used it, then i started seeing $9 charges on my 
credit card. I called and told them to cancel it, and they said they would and 
refund my $25, but nothing ever came. I called the credit card company and they 
said Microsoft and McAfee are doing the same kind of scam - sign you up for 
something free then start charging you.

Regarding your situation - I woiuld fight it 100% with your credit card 
company. First of all - document your story - with dates and times. You DID call to 
cancel the order. You expressed to them that you wanted to cancel the order. 
You might also check to see if it was really shipped before you called them. 
And then document the rest of the story. Also, check their website or catalog 
to read the fine print on shipping charges. Does it say "shipping and 
handling"? 

Overall you have a good case for "breach of contract" in a sense, because 
they charged more than they said they would. 

You can also call Macmall and tell them you are willing to pay $X (their 
price minus $100 or whatever), and if they don't like it, you plan to cancel the 
whole thing and buy from a competitor. From their point of view its better to 
take a hit but still sell you the computer - cuz they are still making money 
and having more volume pass through their hands.

For comparison, I bought a $500 item from ZZounds ( a music item) and it 
didn't quite work the way I wanted, and I returned it within 30 days and they gave 
me 100% refund (including the shipping, even though I used it for a week). So 
a few reputable companies exist.


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