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Tiny Text Editor For LPC

Tiny Text Editor For LPC

2005-12-31 by rtstofer

Has anyone ported or thought about an embedded text editor along the 
lines of vi?  Assume the existence of a file system and a VT? serial 
display terminal.

I haven't decided on an LPC but maybe one with an external bus.  
Perhaps like the Olimex LPC2294 board but, for the moment, I would 
like to use the LPC2106.  This means that the file system, a command 
processor and the text editor should all fit in 128k of flash and the 
text files will be paged through the 64k of SRAM.

Richard

Re: Tiny Text Editor For LPC

2005-12-31 by Eric Engler

--- In lpc2000@yahoogroups.com, "rtstofer" <rstofer@p...> wrote:

> Has anyone ported or thought about an embedded text editor along the 
> lines of vi?  Assume the existence of a file system and a VT? serial 
> display terminal.

It seems to me like you may be happier with an ARM9 running eCos or
uClinux.

Arm7 single-chip controllers just don't seem to be well-suited for
this kind of thing ... I'm not syaing they can't do it, but rather I
think it's easier to do what you want with an Arm9, and you'd have
more head-room to expand to meet your future needs.

Eric

Re: [lpc2000] Re: Tiny Text Editor For LPC

2005-12-31 by Doug Sutherland

Eric Engler wrote:
> Arm7 single-chip controllers just don't seem to be well-suited for
> this kind of thing ...

Well ARM720T with SDRAM surely would be.

   -- Doug

Re: Tiny Text Editor For LPC

2005-12-31 by rtstofer

The real project:  I always liked UCSD Pascal.  I have the original 
Niklaus Wirth P4 Compiler project including the interpreter.  Now, in 
the UCSD system everything except instruction interpretation was done 
in Pascal.  The interpreter was a couple of k of 8080 assembly 
language, maybe more with the floating point stuff.  I don't intend to 
be quite so pedantic.

I was going to write the file system and loader in C and I thought the 
editor could as well be in the flash.  The command interpreter would 
only have a few commands: Edit, Compile, Execute.  Everything would 
run out of RAM.

I don't want Linux or any variants; I have that on gumstix (XScale) 
and a couple of PCs.  I want to recreate the simple environment of the 
UCSD system without the licensing issues.

The goal is to recreate the environment so I can use it to teach my 
grandson how to write programs in Pascal.  He can learn Linux & C 
later.

I had thought that the Olimex LPC2294 development board with 256k 
internal flash, 16k internal RAM, 1MB external RAM and 4 MB external 
flash would be more than adequate.  The original system ran in 64k 
bytes.

I would certainly consider the ARM9 if I could find inexpensive 
development boards but only if it is supported by the Eclipse->GNUArm 
tool chain.  There is no budget for development tools.

Richard
  
--- In lpc2000@yahoogroups.com, Doug Sutherland <doug@p...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Eric Engler wrote:
> > Arm7 single-chip controllers just don't seem to be well-suited for
> > this kind of thing ...
> 
> Well ARM720T with SDRAM surely would be.
> 
>    -- Doug
>

RE: [lpc2000] Re: Tiny Text Editor For LPC

2005-12-31 by Paul Curtis

Hi, 

> The real project:  I always liked UCSD Pascal.  I have the original 
> Niklaus Wirth P4 Compiler project including the interpreter.  Now, in 
> the UCSD system everything except instruction interpretation was done 
> in Pascal.  The interpreter was a couple of k of 8080 assembly 
> language, maybe more with the floating point stuff.  I don't 
> intend to be quite so pedantic.

Ahh, yes, I well remember the p-System.  The interpreter was more than
2K of code and remember that it also had to perform disk I/O and
paging--it was quite a lot of work to port the p-System and I used to
work for a company that did exactly that.

> I was going to write the file system and loader in C and I 
> thought the  editor could as well be in the flash.  The command
> interpreter would only have a few commands: Edit, Compile, Execute.
> Everything would run out of RAM.
> 
> I don't want Linux or any variants; I have that on gumstix (XScale) 
> and a couple of PCs.  I want to recreate the simple 
> environment of the UCSD system without the licensing issues.

Don't think the p-System was simple.  Sure, the P4 compiler was fairly
simple and used as a basis for the p-System, but the p-System went way
beyond that simple language with UNITs and separate compilation.  The P4
compiler is a *very* simple one-pass item with no separate compilation
and has a simple interpreter.  The p-System is much more than that.

> The goal is to recreate the environment so I can use it to teach my 
> grandson how to write programs in Pascal.  He can learn Linux & C 
> later.
> 
> I had thought that the Olimex LPC2294 development board with 256k 
> internal flash, 16k internal RAM, 1MB external RAM and 4 MB external 
> flash would be more than adequate.  The original system ran in 64k 
> bytes.

The original system *required* a disk to be present in order to page
code segments into memory.  However, I agree that the LPC2294 with that
RAM/FLASH would be much more than adequate to port the p-System.

> I would certainly consider the ARM9 if I could find inexpensive 
> development boards but only if it is supported by the Eclipse->GNUArm 
> tool chain.  There is no budget for development tools.

There is a great ARM9 board coming out that would be fabulous as a
p-System target, and it's inexpensive.  In fact, I'm porting one of my
projects to it now.  It's a great device for retrocomputing.

--
Paul Curtis, Rowley Associates Ltd  http://www.rowley.co.uk
CrossWorks for MSP430, ARM, AVR and now MAXQ processors

Re: Tiny Text Editor For LPC

2005-12-31 by rtstofer

> Ahh, yes, I well remember the p-System.  The interpreter was more 
than
> 2K of code and remember that it also had to perform disk I/O and
> paging--it was quite a lot of work to port the p-System and I used 
to
> work for a company that did exactly that.
> 

I don't recall the paging but it makes sense.  I made the huge 
mistake of tossing the source and executables after UCSD yanked the 
licenses.

I did a lot of customization of the interpreter to add IO devices.  
It was a very interesting system.  It was even more interesting when 
Western Digital built the p-system in silicon.  I would have like to 
have one of those boxes but I haven't run across them on e-bay.

> Don't think the p-System was simple.  Sure, the P4 compiler was 
fairly
> simple and used as a basis for the p-System, but the p-System went 
way
> beyond that simple language with UNITs and separate compilation. 

Yes, they added UNITS but I don't want that feature.  Simple 
programs, one pass compile and go will be fine.  If I need more I 
have Turbo Pascal under PC-DOS 7.  Or one of the offerings under 
Linux.  Actually, Turbo Pascal was my plan for step 2.

I had actually thought to do Lee Chen Wang's Tiny Basic but I don't 
think Basic promotes good program structure and it would be a waste 
of an ARM processor.  But it sure worked well on an 8080 and 8085.

> There is a great ARM9 board coming out that would be fabulous as a
> p-System target, and it's inexpensive.  In fact, I'm porting one 
of my
> projects to it now.  It's a great device for retrocomputing.

Who is making the board and when might it be available?  It's not 
like this project is urgent.  My grandson is only in 2d grade.

Richard

RE: [lpc2000] Re: Tiny Text Editor For LPC

2006-01-01 by Paul Curtis

Hi,

> > Ahh, yes, I well remember the p-System.  The interpreter was more 
> than
> > 2K of code and remember that it also had to perform disk I/O and
> > paging--it was quite a lot of work to port the p-System and I used 
> to
> > work for a company that did exactly that.
> > 
> 
> I don't recall the paging but it makes sense.  I made the huge 
> mistake of tossing the source and executables after UCSD yanked the 
> licenses.

The p-System had the concept of a segment and even had a SEGMENT keyword
for SEGMENT PROCEDURE or SEGMENT FUNCTION -- a procedure or function
belonging to a program or unit, but whose code is not loaded with that
program or unit's code until it is called.  This is demand loading of
program code.

> I did a lot of customization of the interpreter to add IO devices.  
> It was a very interesting system.  It was even more interesting when 
> Western Digital built the p-system in silicon.  I would have like to 
> have one of those boxes but I haven't run across them on e-bay.

I have never run across a WD Microengine, but I have seen a PERQ in
action http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PERQ.  Nice machine, way nicer than
a SAGE II.

> > Don't think the p-System was simple.  Sure, the P4 compiler was 
> fairly
> > simple and used as a basis for the p-System, but the p-System went 
> way
> > beyond that simple language with UNITs and separate compilation. 
> 
> Yes, they added UNITS but I don't want that feature.  Simple 
> programs, one pass compile and go will be fine.  If I need more I 
> have Turbo Pascal under PC-DOS 7.  Or one of the offerings under 
> Linux.  Actually, Turbo Pascal was my plan for step 2.

Then why not try Pascal-S?
http://www.moorecad.com/standardpascal/pascals.html

I still have this book which describes the P4 compiler
http://homepages.cwi.nl/~steven/pascal/.

> I had actually thought to do Lee Chen Wang's Tiny Basic but I don't 
> think Basic promotes good program structure and it would be a waste 
> of an ARM processor.  But it sure worked well on an 8080 and 8085.

I don't think this is necessarily true--good program structure is
learned, and it would not be a waste of an ARM processor given that RISC
OS and Arthur ran a nice BASIC.

My personal introduction to microcomputers was with Commodore PETs and
Acorn Atoms (yes, my first personal computer was an Acord Atom with a
6502, and THAT Acorn).  Both these had BASIC as an operating system and
language combo.  I find it astounding that people denegrate BASIC yet
BASIC kicked off the microcomputer revolution by letting people have
*something* to write programs in that wasn't daunting and didn't need a
compile-linkedit-run-crash-debug process.  It's astounding how
resourceful you become when you have limited RAM to write programs in.

Good programming is learned over time--it's not easily taught.  You
write good programs by looking at good programming style.  I find it
rather like learning a natural language, there is no substitute for
going out and using and talking to natives, it doesn't matter how long
you spend in the classroom being "taught" good grammar and vocabulary.

BASIC might not cut it in ivory towers, but hell, it's a great way to
get started with programming and get some use out of a computer.  I'd
rather start my children off with BASIC on a micro they can directly
control rather than with Logo or C or Pascal on a PC which they really
can't.  I am *not* a fan of universities that teach highbrow stuff as a
first language--ETH's approach is absolutely right, the staff know what
they're talking about because they know how to construct custom hardware
to run their custom software on, and they [used to] do it all
themselves.  Bravo!

> > There is a great ARM9 board coming out that would be fabulous as a
> > p-System target, and it's inexpensive.  In fact, I'm porting one 
> of my
> > projects to it now.  It's a great device for retrocomputing.
> 
> Who is making the board and when might it be available?  It's not 
> like this project is urgent.  My grandson is only in 2d grade.

Can't really say at present.

-- Paul.

Re: Tiny Text Editor For LPC

2006-01-01 by rtstofer

> The p-System had the concept of a segment and even had a SEGMENT 
keyword
> for SEGMENT PROCEDURE or SEGMENT FUNCTION -- a procedure or 
function
> belonging to a program or unit, but whose code is not loaded with 
that
> program or unit's code until it is called.  This is demand loading 
of
> program code.

Yes, I remember that.  I first ran into Load On Call (LOCAL) with 
the IBM 1130, my first 'personal' computer, back in '69.  I really 
loved that machine and Fortran is still a favorite.  It 
was 'personal' in that the company paid me to do things with it and 
I had unlimited use during the off hours.  It was a great tool while 
stumbling through college.

> Then why not try Pascal-S?
> http://www.moorecad.com/standardpascal/pascals.html

I guess I am looking at the whole experience.  I'm trying to get 
past all of the OS related issues and just look at programming from 
the viewpoint of "Algorithms + Data Structures = Programs" by 
Niklaus Wirth.  This is my all time favorite book on how programming 
should be done.  But, opinions vary on that.

> 
> I still have this book which describes the P4 compiler
> http://homepages.cwi.nl/~steven/pascal/.

Got it.  And the original Manual and Report and a few other classic 
texts on Pascal.

But, I don't plan to take it that far.  This is going to be a lot 
like 16k Basic with structure.

> 
> > I had actually thought to do Lee Chen Wang's Tiny Basic but I 
don't 
> > think Basic promotes good program structure and it would be a 
waste 
> > of an ARM processor.  But it sure worked well on an 8080 and 
8085.
> 
> I don't think this is necessarily true--good program structure is
> learned, and it would not be a waste of an ARM processor given 
that RISC
> OS and Arthur ran a nice BASIC.

It certainly wouldn't take much effort to get it running.  And it 
would really RUN!  Maybe I'll do that next week.  I think the 
original fit in 1k bytes of assembly code.  I imagine I'll do it in 
C but it would be a good exercise to do it in assembly.  And, I 
really need to learn ARM assembly...

> 
> My personal introduction to microcomputers was with Commodore PETs 
and
> Acorn Atoms (yes, my first personal computer was an Acord Atom 
with a
> 6502, and THAT Acorn).  Both these had BASIC as an operating 
system and
> language combo.  I find it astounding that people denegrate BASIC 
yet
> BASIC kicked off the microcomputer revolution by letting people 
have
> *something* to write programs in that wasn't daunting and didn't 
need a
> compile-linkedit-run-crash-debug process.  It's astounding how
> resourceful you become when you have limited RAM to write programs 
in.

All true.  I don't mean to denegrate Basic and he will have to learn 
it sooner or later.  I couldn't wait to get enough RAM in my Altair 
8800 so I could run 8k Basic.  I remember paying $400 for a 4k 
board!  That was more than the machine cost.  I still have the 
Altair with a pair of 8" floppies and a home built floppy 
controller.  I also have a CompuPro industrial Z80 machine with dual 
8" floppies.

A year or so back I implemented the T80 core on an FPGA and I now 
have CP/M running silently using 2 CF devices to implement the 16 
logical drives.  It's fun to visit with old friends: ED, MAC, 
FORTRAN, PL/I, MicroShell and, yes, WordStar.

> 
> Good programming is learned over time--it's not easily taught.  You
> write good programs by looking at good programming style.  I find 
it
> rather like learning a natural language, there is no substitute for
> going out and using and talking to natives, it doesn't matter how 
long
> you spend in the classroom being "taught" good grammar and 
vocabulary.

Absolutely!  I had a side project of writing an 8080 assembler in 
PL/I in grad school.  In the end my advisor thought the code looked 
a lot like Fortran, with semicolons.

I also had to write a tiny Algol compiler in Basic for a compiler 
class.  It was ugly.  I wouldn't wish that kind of program on 
anyone.  I had a 110 baud acoustic coupler for a while and upgraded 
to a 300 baud modem.  But, it worked!

> 
> BASIC might not cut it in ivory towers, but hell, it's a great way 
to
> get started with programming and get some use out of a computer.  
I'd
> rather start my children off with BASIC on a micro they can 
directly
> control rather than with Logo or C or Pascal on a PC which they 
really
> can't.

Exactly my point.  Get past all the system related issues.  Keep it 
simple.  In fact, Pascal with only the main program block isn't a 
lot different than Basic except that variables have to be 
predefined.  Ignoring CONST and TYPE for a while and using only 
integers and strings makes Pascal look a lot like Basic, with 
semicolons.

I also have to change the P4 implementation of strings.  I think 
they were limited to 10 6-bit chars to fit the CDC 6400 60 bit word. 
Maybe multiples of 10, I'll have to look.

> I am *not* a fan of universities that teach highbrow stuff as a
> first language--ETH's approach is absolutely right, the staff know 
what
> they're talking about because they know how to construct custom 
hardware
> to run their custom software on, and they [used to] do it all
> themselves.  Bravo!

There's certainly nothing wrong with starting with Basic but it 
isn't what I have in mind.  We can move to Basic as implemented for 
Stamps in fairly short order.  In fact, we have already played with 
that a little and we'll be doing more as his interest in robotics 
grows.

That Tiny Basic is sounding better all the time.  I had added a MEM 
array and MEM function to implement POKE and PEEK.  That could be 
pretty neat with the ARM.  It would be possible to POKE to the IO 
devices by doing something like:

MEM(Port0) = SomeValue

There's nothing like flashing LEDs to add interest!

Richard

Re: Tiny Text Editor For LPC

2006-01-01 by rtstofer

> Then why not try Pascal-S?
> http://www.moorecad.com/standardpascal/pascals.html

Actually, this is a great idea.  I have Barron's "Pascal - The 
Language And Its Implementation".

This is really a better place to start.  I had been looking at it a 
while back when I started implementing the Pascal virtual machine in 
an FPGA.

Thanks for the suggestion!
Richard

Re: Tiny Text Editor For LPC

2006-01-01 by Eric Engler

--- In lpc2000@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Curtis" <plc@r...> wrote:

I love this thread. I was also a fan of the P system, and I used
Borland Turbo Pascal and Delphi for years. I've also used C style
languages (most recently C#), and like many of you, I started with
BASIC (the PET, TRS-80, and Apple II). I couldn't afford to buy any of
these, but I was the guy everyone came to when they couldn't figure
something out, so I learned a lot about them.

I think I have got a document in PDF form that explains the p-code
instructions in case anyone wants it. I was thinking of using
something like that in a recent VM I was designing in my head, but I
am now hedging on doing something a little closer to the JVM. Support
for basic OOP contructs would be good, as would support for pointers
(something the JVM can't do). The interpretive approach of a VM gives
you some very cool debugging support, and allows you to integrate a
multi-tasking RTOS at the VM level, and like the P system, it's very
portable.

This was the original idea I had, and I was targetting 16 bit MCUs
such as the Freescale 9s12 (updated 68hc12; one of the strongest 16
bit controllers), and the MSP430 (the 16 bit chip that runs on the
mere hint that a few electrons might possibly consider switching from
one atom to the next):
http://www.ericengler.com/downloads/EmbeddedVM.txt

But. as I said, I think some of my ideas need to be re-examined, and
I'm also interested in a 32 bit version of it, now that I'm trying to
learn more about Arms. My 32 bit VM might be able to execute programs
compiled to target the 16 bit VM, since metadata and versioning will
be used in the generated code. But binary compatibility between device
families may not be needed, and I'm not sure of whether there is any
practical use for it.

> > Who is making the board and when might it be available?  It's not 
> > like this project is urgent.  My grandson is only in 2d grade.
> 
> Can't really say at present.
> 
> -- Paul.

I always enjoy the ability to speculate because sometimes I have
inside information, and I always try to keep quiet in that case. In
this case, however, I don't have any inside information, so I can try
my hand at guessing. This is especially appropriate now that New Years
Day is upon us. We're thinking of what will come in 2006, so here's my
speculation:

1) Rowley loves Olimex, and Olimex loves Rowley. Olimex will make a
new ARM9 board, and it will be based on a Philips LPC3000 series part.
Why Philips? 
  a) Olimex has more Philips boards than they have of any other ARM maker
  b) Paul likes Philips devices, and he posted this message here in
this forum (lpc2000 forum)

2) Why is Paul so fond of this idea? It's likely that Rowley's new
announcement (that might come within the next couple months), might
involve software tool support for this new device, and it's likely
they are already working with an alpha or beta version of it right now.

3) Rowley is not content with sitting still, and I haven't seen any
big moves from them in the past 2 or 3 months, so this means they are
working hard on their next toolset mentioned in #2. And, since the
Philips Arm9 is not yet common (is it even shipping yet?), it follows
that Rowley is probably not putting all their marbles in the Arm9 camp
just yet. This means their new tools (or maybe this should be
singular, as in "compiler") will target the Arm7 devices primarily.

Please understand - this is 100% idle speculation! Please don't push
Rowley or Olimex to "confirm or deny" these ideas. All companies need
to choose the right time to make announcements, and I may look quite
stupid when that time comes (which would be nothing new). I just got
carried away with this being New Years Day!

Happy New Year!

Eric

Re: Tiny Text Editor For LPC

2006-01-01 by rtstofer

> I think I have got a document in PDF form that explains the p-code
> instructions in case anyone wants it.

I think I have it around here somewhere but, if it's convenient, email 
me a copy.  Or post it in the Files section and delete it after I grab 
it.  Either way...

Your projections for Arm9 are not a real surprise.  I look forward to 
new things coming out.  I have been happy with the Olimex gadgets I 
have ordered from Sparkfun - well, except the documentation which has 
definite but easily identifiable errors.

Richard

RE: [lpc2000] Re: Tiny Text Editor For LPC

2006-01-01 by Paul Curtis

Eric,

> I love this thread. I was also a fan of the P system, and I used
> Borland Turbo Pascal and Delphi for years. I've also used C style
> languages (most recently C#), and like many of you, I started with
> BASIC (the PET, TRS-80, and Apple II). I couldn't afford to buy any of
> these, but I was the guy everyone came to when they couldn't figure
> something out, so I learned a lot about them.

I wished I could have an Apple II.  However, limited funds meant I was
content with an Acorn Atom.

> I think I have got a document in PDF form that explains the p-code
> instructions in case anyone wants it.

Please be aware that there are a lot of p-machine implementations, and
even amonst the UCSD crowd there is a difference in them between
systems.  System IV was nice with the ASE.  ASE is rather VIish.

> I was thinking of using
> something like that in a recent VM I was designing in my head, but I
> am now hedging on doing something a little closer to the JVM. Support
> for basic OOP contructs would be good, as would support for pointers
> (something the JVM can't do). The interpretive approach of a VM gives
> you some very cool debugging support, and allows you to integrate a
> multi-tasking RTOS at the VM level, and like the P system, it's very
> portable.

There are a multitude of interpreted systems in use today.  Some of them
I've even worked on.

> > > Who is making the board and when might it be available?  It's not 
> > > like this project is urgent.  My grandson is only in 2d grade.
> > 
> > Can't really say at present.
> > 
> > -- Paul.
> 
> I always enjoy the ability to speculate because sometimes I have
> inside information, and I always try to keep quiet in that case. In
> this case, however, I don't have any inside information, so I can try
> my hand at guessing. This is especially appropriate now that New Years
> Day is upon us. We're thinking of what will come in 2006, so here's my
> speculation:
> 
> 1) Rowley loves Olimex, and Olimex loves Rowley. Olimex will make a
> new ARM9 board, and it will be based on a Philips LPC3000 series part.
> Why Philips? 
>   a) Olimex has more Philips boards than they have of any 
> other ARM maker
>   b) Paul likes Philips devices, and he posted this message here in
> this forum (lpc2000 forum)

That's only because the LPC2000 forum is the most active ARM forum.  I
can say catgorically that we have no plans to introduce a board for a
device we've never seen, and I've not seen an LPC3k.

> 2) Why is Paul so fond of this idea? It's likely that Rowley's new
> announcement (that might come within the next couple months), might
> involve software tool support for this new device, and it's likely
> they are already working with an alpha or beta version of it 
> right now.

There are good reasons for no announcements--and it has nothing to do
with ARM.  We certainly don't announce things we are working on.  We
also don't announce things we have managed to bag in the way of
contracts.  You might put two and two together and come up with
something less than a pint.  I know you won't be able to tumble what
we're cooking.

> 3) Rowley is not content with sitting still, and I haven't seen any
> big moves from them in the past 2 or 3 months, so this means they are
> working hard on their next toolset mentioned in #2. And, since the
> Philips Arm9 is not yet common (is it even shipping yet?), it follows
> that Rowley is probably not putting all their marbles in the Arm9 camp
> just yet. This means their new tools (or maybe this should be
> singular, as in "compiler") will target the Arm7 devices primarily.

This is more on target.  There will be something coming down the line
that's interesting for many ARM7/LPC enthusiasts.  However, the board
that has just been delivered to me has nothing to do with this, it's a
board from a company we have a close association with.  As it is not my
board, I'm just using it to port some of my pet code, I really cannot
tell you what it is or what it has.  However, it's a really nice piece
of engineering, and something that will keep me busy for quite some
time.

-- Paul.

Re: Tiny Text Editor For LPC

2006-01-01 by Eric Engler

--- In lpc2000@yahoogroups.com, "rtstofer" <rstofer@p...> wrote:

What was the word size on an 1130, wasn't it 18 bits? Back in 1969
that nust have been state-of-the-art! Maybe 4K words of core?

I learned assembler programming on an 1130 and it stunted me for life!
That relative addressing in particular taught me bad habits.

When micros came out I couldn't understand why nobody interfaced an
029 card reader/puncher to them! But some people did support paper
tape, and that was almost as good. But paper tape kept kinking and
jamming. I guess you could choose your poison: the nasty paper tapes
or the possibility of floor sorting a deck of 1,000 cards!

> A year or so back I implemented the T80 core on an FPGA and I now 
> have CP/M running silently using 2 CF devices to implement the 16 
> logical drives.  It's fun to visit with old friends: ED, MAC, 
> FORTRAN, PL/I, MicroShell and, yes, WordStar.

Any chance this might work on a Spartan-3 board? I may get one of
their low end boards some day if I get enough free time to actually
use it.

Eric

Re: Tiny Text Editor For LPC

2006-01-01 by Eric Engler

--- In lpc2000@yahoogroups.com, "rtstofer" <rstofer@p...> wrote:
>
> 
> > I think I have got a document in PDF form that explains the p-code
> > instructions in case anyone wants it.
> 
> I think I have it around here somewhere but, if it's convenient, email 
> me a copy. 

I put it here for anyone who wants it:

http://www.ericengler.com/downloads/UCSD Apple Pascal - Interp.zip

This is mostly on the Apple 6502 flavor. This includes a description
of the p-codes, a disassembly of the 6502 interpreter, a Z-80
interpreter, and a linux interpreter for Apple Pascal. The names of
the people who made these items is sometimes included, and sometimes
not, but this is all I know. I'm not trying to cut anyone out of
getting credit.

Eric

Re: Tiny Text Editor For LPC

2006-01-01 by rtstofer

--- In lpc2000@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Engler" <englere.geo@y...> 
wrote:
>
> --- In lpc2000@yahoogroups.com, "rtstofer" <rstofer@p...> wrote:
> 
> What was the word size on an 1130, wasn't it 18 bits? Back in 1969
> that nust have been state-of-the-art! Maybe 4K words of core?

It was 16 bits and you could get up to 32k words.  The machine I 
used had 8k words.

> 
> I learned assembler programming on an 1130 and it stunted me for 
life!
> That relative addressing in particular taught me bad habits.

Yes, reentrancy was limited!  BSI label stored the instruction 
counter at label and began execute at label+1.

Every machine has warts but you NEVER forget your first machine.  
NEVER!

> 
> When micros came out I couldn't understand why nobody interfaced an
> 029 card reader/puncher to them! But some people did support paper
> tape, and that was almost as good. But paper tape kept kinking and
> jamming. I guess you could choose your poison: the nasty paper 
tapes
> or the possibility of floor sorting a deck of 1,000 cards!

I did have a paper tape reader and punch on my Altair until I moved 
to audio tape and then to 8" floppies.

> 
> > A year or so back I implemented the T80 core on an FPGA and I 
now 
> > have CP/M running silently using 2 CF devices to implement the 
16 
> > logical drives.  It's fun to visit with old friends: ED, MAC, 
> > FORTRAN, PL/I, MicroShell and, yes, WordStar.
> 
> Any chance this might work on a Spartan-3 board? I may get one of
> their low end boards some day if I get enough free time to actually
> use it.

I am pretty sure it will.  Things need to be reorganized and I 
haven't done it.  But I have a couple of Spartan-3 boards and one of 
these days...
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> 
> Eric
>

RE: [lpc2000] Re: Tiny Text Editor For LPC

2006-01-01 by Randy M. Dumse

> Every machine has warts but you NEVER forget your
> first machine.
> NEVER!

Ah that Kim-1. And Eric Rehnke's "First Book of Kim".

Neat, the connection between ARM and 6502. Finding that
connection made me finally convert to an "ARM appreciator".

Randy
www.newmicros.com

Re: Tiny Text Editor For LPC

2006-01-12 by Paul Curtis

All,

> > > Who is making the board and when might it be available? It's not
> > > like this project is urgent. My grandson is only in 2d grade.
> >
> > Can't really say at present.
> >
> > -- Paul.
> 
> I always enjoy the ability to speculate because sometimes I have
> inside information, and I always try to keep quiet in that case. In
> this case, however, I don't have any inside information, so I can try
> my hand at guessing. This is especially appropriate now that New Years
> Day is upon us. We're thinking of what will come in 2006, so here's my
> speculation:

This board has now made it to the website.  Try looking at the RIZE
Microcomputer model RMS102 here...

www.revely.com

Regards,

--
Paul Curtis, Rowley Associates Ltd  http://www.rowley.co.uk
CrossWorks for MSP430, ARM, AVR and now MAXQ processors

Re: Tiny Text Editor For LPC

2006-01-13 by rtstofer

--- In lpc2000@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Curtis" <plc@r...> wrote:
>
> All,
> 
> > > > Who is making the board and when might it be available? It's 
not
> > > > like this project is urgent. My grandson is only in 2d grade.
> > >
> > > Can't really say at present.
> > >
> > > -- Paul.
> > 
> > I always enjoy the ability to speculate because sometimes I have
> > inside information, and I always try to keep quiet in that case. 
In
> > this case, however, I don't have any inside information, so I 
can try
> > my hand at guessing. This is especially appropriate now that New 
Years
> > Day is upon us. We're thinking of what will come in 2006, so 
here's my
> > speculation:
> 
> This board has now made it to the website.  Try looking at the RIZE
> Microcomputer model RMS102 here...
> 
> www.revely.com
> 
> Regards,
> 
> --
> Paul Curtis, Rowley Associates Ltd  http://www.rowley.co.uk
> CrossWorks for MSP430, ARM, AVR and now MAXQ processors
>

Very interesting!  Thanks for posting the link...

Richard

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