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Thread
2004-12-11 by acetoel
Hello... Unfortunately I cannot obtain any RS232 Driver for 3.3V, yes for 5V. In My LPC board I have 5V, so I was thinking about adding some transistor and convert the 3.3V from the LPC2106 to 5V and viceversa for the RX pin. I know this is not the best solution, but I think it could work. If not, what about making a Level shifter with Transistors? Does anybody have a schematic, or can help me with this? Thanks Ezequiel
2004-12-11 by Robert Wood
Hi, Lots of people do 3V RS232 converters. Here are Intersil's offerings: http://www.intersil.com/products/deviceresults.asp?i=2500&i=2504 There are ESD protected ones as well. Other people do similar devices, I think TI for example. Maxim do as well, but I don't like using Maxim unless it's an absolute last resort, as their lead times are hilarious. Cheers, Rob ---------------------------------------------- Hello... Unfortunately I cannot obtain any RS232 Driver for 3.3V, yes for 5V. In My LPC board I have 5V, so I was thinking about adding some transistor and convert the 3.3V from the LPC2106 to 5V and viceversa for the RX pin. I know this is not the best solution, but I think it could work. If not, what about making a Level shifter with Transistors? Does anybody have a schematic, or can help me with this? Thanks Ezequiel Yahoo! Groups Links
2004-12-11 by onestone
Sipex, maxim, Ti, On Semi, to name just 4, all supply RS232 drivers in 3V versions. So I don't understand the problem, since All of these (I think) have a direct sales facility over the net. Even if you don't have a distributor you should be able to buy them. Failing the above Digi-key, Jameco RS and farnell/Newark all sell them and will ship anywhere. Al acetoel wrote:
> > Hello... > > Unfortunately I cannot obtain any RS232 Driver for 3.3V, yes for 5V. > In My LPC board I have 5V, so I was thinking about adding some > transistor and convert the 3.3V from the LPC2106 to 5V and viceversa > for the RX pin. I know this is not the best solution, but I think it > could work. If not, what about making a Level shifter with > Transistors? Does anybody have a schematic, or can help me with this? > Thanks > Ezequiel > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > <http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129avci9j/M=324847.5707095.6763799.3001176/D=groups/S=1706554205:HM/EXP=1102848332/A=2343726/R=0/SIG=12ik427jm/*http://clk.atdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102761932536434> > > > Get unlimited calls to > > U.S./Canada > > <http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129avci9j/M=324847.5707095.6763799.3001176/D=groups/S=1706554205:HM/EXP=1102848332/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12ik427jm/*http://clk.atdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102761932536434> > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Yahoo! Groups Links > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lpc2000/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > lpc2000-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:lpc2000-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>. > >
2004-12-11 by Leon Heller
>From: "acetoel" <acetoel@...> >Reply-To: lpc2000@yahoogroups.com >To: lpc2000@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [lpc2000] Alternative Circuit >Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 10:45:21 -0000 > > > >Hello... > >Unfortunately I cannot obtain any RS232 Driver for 3.3V, yes for 5V. >In My LPC board I have 5V, so I was thinking about adding some >transistor and convert the 3.3V from the LPC2106 to 5V and viceversa >for the RX pin. I know this is not the best solution, but I think it >could work. If not, what about making a Level shifter with >Transistors? Does anybody have a schematic, or can help me with this? >Thanks The MAX202 will work at 3.3V, if you can't get hold of a MAX3232 (I've tried it). I've got details of a simple circuit using transistors that works with the PC (doesn't generate negative signals but that doesn't usually matter) that works at 5V and should be OK at 3.3V. Leon
2004-12-11 by Leon Heller
>From: Robert Wood <robert.wood@...> >Reply-To: lpc2000@yahoogroups.com >To: lpc2000@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [lpc2000] Alternative Circuit >Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 11:14:18 +0000 > > >Hi, > >Lots of people do 3V RS232 converters. Here are Intersil's offerings: > >http://www.intersil.com/products/deviceresults.asp?i=2500&i=2504 > >There are ESD protected ones as well. > >Other people do similar devices, I think TI for example. Maxim do as well, >but >I don't like using Maxim unless it's an absolute last resort, as their lead >times are hilarious. They are very good for samples, even if they can't supply production quantities. 8-) Leon
2004-12-11 by Robert Wood
>> >I don't like using Maxim unless it's an absolute last resort, as their lead >times are hilarious. They are very good for samples, even if they can't supply production quantities. 8-) << Maybe that's why they never have enough to supply for production, 'cos all their supplies go to small users ordering samples! ;-)
2004-12-11 by Tom Oberheim
First of all, the 3.3 volt output will usually drive the 5 volt input, but with reduced noise margin, since the switching threshold for CMOS running on 5 volts is about 2.5 volts. An easy way to go from 3.3 volts to 5 volts is to use a 74HCT08, NOT 74HC08. The input threshold on 'HCT is about 1.5 volts, and the output, if supplied with 5 volts, is of course 5 volts. At 02:45 AM 12/11/2004, you wrote: >Hello... > >Unfortunately I cannot obtain any RS232 Driver for 3.3V, yes for 5V. >In My LPC board I have 5V, so I was thinking about adding some >transistor and convert the 3.3V from the LPC2106 to 5V and viceversa >for the RX pin. I know this is not the best solution, but I think it >could work. If not, what about making a Level shifter with >Transistors? Does anybody have a schematic, or can help me with this? >Thanks >Ezequiel > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ><http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129avci9j/M=324847.5707095.6763799.3001176/D=groups/S=1706554205:HM/EXP=1102848332/A=2343726/R=0/SIG=12ik427jm/*http://clk.atdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102761932536434> >be21d.jpg > ><http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129avci9j/M=324847.5707095.6763799.3001176/D=groups/S=1706554205:HM/EXP=1102848332/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12ik427jm/*http://clk.atdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102761932536434> > >Get unlimited calls to > >U.S./Canada >[] > >be29a.jpg > > > >---------- >Yahoo! Groups Links > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > * > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lpc2000/>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lpc2000/ > * > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > * > <mailto:lpc2000-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>lpc2000-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > * > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>Yahoo! Terms of Service. ---------- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2004-12-11 by Robert Adsett
At 10:45 AM 12/11/04 +0000, you wrote:
>Unfortunately I cannot obtain any RS232 Driver for 3.3V, yes for 5V.
>In My LPC board I have 5V, so I was thinking about adding some
>transistor and convert the 3.3V from the LPC2106 to 5V and viceversa
>for the RX pin. I know this is not the best solution, but I think it
>could work. If not, what about making a Level shifter with
>Transistors? Does anybody have a schematic, or can help me with this?
In addition to all the pointers to 3V level convertors I would add; Why
not just use a 5V level convertor since you have the 5V available? Run 5V
to you level convertor and then hook it's Rx and Tx lines to the micro. If
your level convertor is TTL compatible then it's inputs should match the
drive output. Check the VIH rating of your convertor.
Robert
" 'Freedom' has no meaning of itself. There are always restrictions,
be they legal, genetic, or physical. If you don't believe me, try to
chew a radio signal. "
Kelvin Throop, III2004-12-11 by J.C. Wren
I may have missed this if anyone mentioned it before, but if you're
building that aren't going to be shipped to end users, a MAX232 runs
fine at 3.3V. You get +-6.6V out of the charge pump, instead of +-10V,
but 6.6V is well within the RS-232 spec. I used Sipex and Maxim parts
all the time in this configuration for prototyping, or whipping up a
quick RS232 interface to a logic level device.
I know there was more in this thread, but my mail server swallowed
it, so I apologize if this idea has already been mentioned.
--jc
Robert Adsett wrote:> At 10:45 AM 12/11/04 +0000, you wrote: > >Unfortunately I cannot obtain any RS232 Driver for 3.3V, yes for 5V. > >In My LPC board I have 5V, so I was thinking about adding some > >transistor and convert the 3.3V from the LPC2106 to 5V and viceversa > >for the RX pin. I know this is not the best solution, but I think it > >could work. If not, what about making a Level shifter with > >Transistors? Does anybody have a schematic, or can help me with this? > > In addition to all the pointers to 3V level convertors I would add; Why > not just use a 5V level convertor since you have the 5V available? > Run 5V > to you level convertor and then hook it's Rx and Tx lines to the > micro. If > your level convertor is TTL compatible then it's inputs should match the > drive output. Check the VIH rating of your convertor. > > > Robert > > " 'Freedom' has no meaning of itself. There are always restrictions, > be they legal, genetic, or physical. If you don't believe me, try to > chew a radio signal. " > > Kelvin Throop, III
2004-12-11 by acetoel
Thanks to everybody. First of all I asked for this alternative circuit for a few reasons. My Local Supplier and Sales representative of Maxim, sells Maxim chips 3 times what Maxim sells it. So a MAX3237 is nearly 10 dolars. Maxim doesn't want to send sample chips directly, and want me to ask sample to my sales representative...of course somebody that sells a chips 10 dolars, will never give you a free sample (at least here in Argentina). And it's very expensive to buy one or two chips from USA. It's something reasonable if you buy in quantity, but I only need two or perhaps three MAX3232CPE or something similar, to test my board and play with it. Leon, could you send me the transistor interfase for RS232 at 3V? Also I will look at my MAX232CPE datasheet, and look if the chips accepts a 3.3V as a High TTL Level. Thanks to everybody Ezequiel Aceto --- In lpc2000@yahoogroups.com, "J.C. Wren" <jcwren@j...> wrote: > I may have missed this if anyone mentioned it before, but if you're > building that aren't going to be shipped to end users, a MAX232 runs > fine at 3.3V. You get +-6.6V out of the charge pump, instead of +- 10V, > but 6.6V is well within the RS-232 spec. I used Sipex and Maxim parts > all the time in this configuration for prototyping, or whipping up a > quick RS232 interface to a logic level device. > > I know there was more in this thread, but my mail server swallowed > it, so I apologize if this idea has already been mentioned. > > --jc > > Robert Adsett wrote: > > > At 10:45 AM 12/11/04 +0000, you wrote: > > >Unfortunately I cannot obtain any RS232 Driver for 3.3V, yes for 5V. > > >In My LPC board I have 5V, so I was thinking about adding some > > >transistor and convert the 3.3V from the LPC2106 to 5V and viceversa > > >for the RX pin. I know this is not the best solution, but I think it > > >could work. If not, what about making a Level shifter with > > >Transistors? Does anybody have a schematic, or can help me with this? > > > > In addition to all the pointers to 3V level convertors I would add; Why > > not just use a 5V level convertor since you have the 5V available? > > Run 5V > > to you level convertor and then hook it's Rx and Tx lines to the > > micro. If > > your level convertor is TTL compatible then it's inputs should match the > > drive output. Check the VIH rating of your convertor. > > > > > > Robert > > > > " 'Freedom' has no meaning of itself. There are always restrictions, > > be they legal, genetic, or physical. If you don't believe me, try to
> > chew a radio signal. " > > > > Kelvin Throop, III
2004-12-11 by acetoel
Well...just to let you know..at least Texas Instrument MAX232 accepts 2V MIN as a High-Level Input Voltage and 0.8V MAX fot TTL as a Low-Level Input Voltage. So I will test MAX232 and put a 3.3V Zener at the receiver output of the MAX232, just in case... Or should the RX and TX pin of the UART in the LPC2106 be 5V compatible? Thanks Ezequiel Aceto --- In lpc2000@yahoogroups.com, "J.C. Wren" <jcwren@j...> wrote: > I may have missed this if anyone mentioned it before, but if you're > building that aren't going to be shipped to end users, a MAX232 runs > fine at 3.3V. You get +-6.6V out of the charge pump, instead of +- 10V, > but 6.6V is well within the RS-232 spec. I used Sipex and Maxim parts > all the time in this configuration for prototyping, or whipping up a > quick RS232 interface to a logic level device. > > I know there was more in this thread, but my mail server swallowed > it, so I apologize if this idea has already been mentioned. > > --jc > > Robert Adsett wrote: > > > At 10:45 AM 12/11/04 +0000, you wrote: > > >Unfortunately I cannot obtain any RS232 Driver for 3.3V, yes for 5V. > > >In My LPC board I have 5V, so I was thinking about adding some > > >transistor and convert the 3.3V from the LPC2106 to 5V and viceversa > > >for the RX pin. I know this is not the best solution, but I think it > > >could work. If not, what about making a Level shifter with > > >Transistors? Does anybody have a schematic, or can help me with this? > > > > In addition to all the pointers to 3V level convertors I would add; Why > > not just use a 5V level convertor since you have the 5V available? > > Run 5V > > to you level convertor and then hook it's Rx and Tx lines to the > > micro. If > > your level convertor is TTL compatible then it's inputs should match the > > drive output. Check the VIH rating of your convertor. > > > > > > Robert > > > > " 'Freedom' has no meaning of itself. There are always restrictions, > > be they legal, genetic, or physical. If you don't believe me, try to
> > chew a radio signal. " > > > > Kelvin Throop, III
2004-12-11 by Robert Adsett
At 06:17 PM 12/11/04 +0000, you wrote:
>Well...just to let you know..at least Texas Instrument MAX232 accepts
>2V MIN as a High-Level Input Voltage
>and 0.8V MAX fot TTL as a Low-Level Input Voltage. So I will test
>MAX232 and put a 3.3V Zener at the receiver output of the MAX232,
>just in case... Or should the RX and TX pin of the UART in the
>LPC2106 be 5V compatible?
You shouldn't need the zener. The max for the 5V tolerant inputs on the
210x is 5.5V (as long as there is power to the I/O supply [3.3V]), abs max
of 6V. That'll save a resistor and a zener. Not that they'd be that
expensive to add.
Robert
" 'Freedom' has no meaning of itself. There are always restrictions,
be they legal, genetic, or physical. If you don't believe me, try to
chew a radio signal. "
Kelvin Throop, III2004-12-13 by lp2000c
There's that little gotcha of these parts being 5V tolerant only when 3.3V is present on the i/o supply. Since in most designs with 5V and 3.3V, one would likely generate the 3.3V from the 5V supply, there will likely be a period of time when 5V is present and 3.3V is not. Unless one adds a bunch of hardware to prevent this, it sort of makes the 5V tolerant feature worthless. --- In lpc2000@yahoogroups.com, Robert Adsett <subscriptions@a...> wrote: > You shouldn't need the zener. The max for the 5V tolerant inputs on the > 210x is 5.5V (as long as there is power to the I/O supply [3.3V]), abs max > of 6V. That'll save a resistor and a zener. Not that they'd be that > expensive to add. > > Robert > > " 'Freedom' has no meaning of itself. There are always restrictions, > be they legal, genetic, or physical. If you don't believe me, try to
> chew a radio signal. " > > Kelvin Throop, III
2004-12-15 by karldalen
--- In lpc2000@yahoogroups.com, "lp2000c" <lp2000c@e...> wrote: > > There's that little gotcha of these parts being 5V tolerant only when > 3.3V is present on the i/o supply. > > Since in most designs with 5V and 3.3V, one would likely generate the > 3.3V from the 5V supply, there will likely be a period of time when > 5V is present and 3.3V is not. > > Unless one adds a bunch of hardware to prevent this, it sort of makes > the 5V tolerant feature worthless. Tip! Run the regulators(zener+resistor+charge cap) in paralell, (not in series)then use a larger charge cap on +5V or if a variable regulator are used use a (voltage settling delay) cap on adjust pin. It will also add for increased performance by filtering noise on the adjust pin! Or set every +5V external IC's in tristate at power on!! Urg!! REG KD
2004-12-15 by lp2000c
--- In lpc2000@yahoogroups.com, "karldalen" <karldalen@y...> wrote: > > --- In lpc2000@yahoogroups.com, "lp2000c" <lp2000c@e...> wrote: > > > > There's that little gotcha of these parts being 5V tolerant only > when > > 3.3V is present on the i/o supply. > > > > Since in most designs with 5V and 3.3V, one would likely generate > the > > 3.3V from the 5V supply, there will likely be a period of time when > > 5V is present and 3.3V is not. > > > > Unless one adds a bunch of hardware to prevent this, it sort of > makes > > the 5V tolerant feature worthless. > > Tip! > > Run the regulators(zener+resistor+charge cap) in paralell, > (not in series)then use a larger charge cap on +5V or if > a variable regulator are used use a (voltage settling delay) > cap on adjust pin. It will also add for increased performance > by filtering noise on the adjust pin! That's not always an option. Let's say 5V is coming from a switcher. Also, what happens on power down. Depending on drain currents, 3.3V (with smaller cap) might discharge before the 5V (with large cap).
2004-12-16 by dalenkarl
> That's not always an option. Let's say 5V is coming from a switcher. > Also, what happens on power down. Depending on drain currents, 3.3V > (with smaller cap) might discharge before the 5V (with large cap). I asumed linear regulating "only". For switched systems, well sometimes there is a enable pin on the switcher wich can be used with a time delay cirquit. Im starting to feel baad about the whole issue, im starting to think that this 5v, 3,3v and speed of the io ports are a very bad design error philips have made! A CPU that works at 60Mhz with Io that can do at best 2.5-3Mhz???? I consider this serious crap! With this speed in some applications makes the LPC2106 completely useless!! Reg KD
2004-12-16 by dalenkarl
> That's not always an option. Let's say 5V is coming from a switcher. > Also, what happens on power down. Depending on drain currents, 3.3V > (with smaller cap) might discharge before the 5V (with large cap). I asumed linear regulating "only". For switched systems, well sometimes there is a enable pin on the switcher wich can be used with a time delay cirquit. Im starting to feel baad about the whole issue, im starting to think that this 5v, 3,3v and speed of the io ports are a very bad design error philips have made! A CPU that works at 60Mhz with Io that can do at best 2.5-3Mhz???? I consider this serious crap! With this speed in some applications makes the LPC2106 completely useless!! Reg KD
2004-12-16 by dalenkarl
> That's not always an option. Let's say 5V is coming from a switcher. > Also, what happens on power down. Depending on drain currents, 3.3V > (with smaller cap) might discharge before the 5V (with large cap). I asumed linear regulating "only". For switched systems, well sometimes there is a enable pin on the switcher wich can be used with a time delay cirquit. Im starting to feel baad about the whole issue, im starting to think that this 5v, 3,3v and speed of the io ports are a very bad design error philips have made! A CPU that works at 60Mhz with Io that can do at best 2.5-3Mhz???? I consider this serious crap! With this speed in some applications makes the LPC2106 completely useless!! Reg KD
2004-12-16 by philips_apps
Hi Karl, give us a break, please. There are things we could improve, e.g. the Flash interface and we did (fastest ARM7 microcontroller running from Flash). There are things that are just not the major strength of an ARM microcontroller, port switching is definitely one of them. Honestly, our LPC900 family can switch a port just about as fast as the ARM can do. Now, if port switching is the major task, there might be better options than ARM, however, if it is just one task and you need to do a lot of algorithms, ARM is a very good choice and it comes at a price of a high end 8-bit after all. So, given a similar performance in toggeling a pin but an order of magnitude better performance in number crunching, why not use the ARM? In regards to the 5V / 3.3V discussion, we think it is not really an issue. In a real system, the 3.3V get often generated from the 5V, agreed but how does this actually happen. There is a regulator that tracks the 5V supply and generated the 3.3V. So by the time the I/O voltage is around 3.3V, the Vdd should already be somewhere around 2.7V. This difference does not hurt the device but we are checking with the pin design group what could happen. It is difficult to get answers during the holiday time escpecially when the final answer comes from a different continent. So please bare with us a little more. Happy Holidays, Robert --- In lpc2000@yahoogroups.com, "dalenkarl" <dalenkarl@y...> wrote:
> > > > That's not always an option. Let's say 5V is coming from a > switcher. > > Also, what happens on power down. Depending on drain currents, > 3.3V > > (with smaller cap) might discharge before the 5V (with large cap). > > I asumed linear regulating "only". > > For switched systems, well sometimes there is a enable pin > on the switcher wich can be used with a time delay cirquit. > > Im starting to feel baad about the whole issue, im starting > to think that this 5v, 3,3v and speed of the io ports are a > very bad design error philips have made! > > A CPU that works at 60Mhz with Io that can do at best 2.5-3Mhz???? > I consider this serious crap! > > With this speed in some applications makes > the LPC2106 completely useless!! > > Reg > KD
2004-12-17 by Stephen Pelc
> From: "philips_apps" <philips_apps@...> > give us a break, please. There are things we could improve, e.g. > the Flash interface and we did (fastest ARM7 microcontroller > running from Flash). Yes, the MAM is great. > There are things that are just not the major strength of an > ARM microcontroller, port switching is definitely one of them. > Honestly, our LPC900 family can switch a port just about as > fast as the ARM can do. Admit it, the GPIO performance *is* a problem, not just theoretically, but because of application issues. Our current development rquires a script interpreter and good bit-banging. We can improve the situation with some software complexity by perverting the SPI pins, but even this gives us a maximum throughput of 7.5MHz. To make best use of the script interpreter, 16k-64k of RAM is wonderful and having a 32 bit CPU core is ideal for the software. But, a 50MHz Silabs 8051 derivative can bit-bang at nearly the same rate, and we probably could shoehorn some form of script interpreter into it. Yes, I know that LPC2xxx chips use the -S core, but the GPIO could be on the high speed bus. For our application, if the SPI could be run twice as fast or we had fast GPIO, I wouldn't complain at all. At the moment, the GPIO performance is the single biggest let-down on the LPC2xxx family. Are you really going to let Atmel and others steal market share? The combination of fast 32 bit CPU core, copious Flash and RAM, and *fast* i/o lets us do things that we could not do before for the price. At this early stage in its lifecycle, the LPC2xxx chips are already very good. All we're asking you to do is to make them really excellent! Stephen -- Stephen Pelc, stephen@... MicroProcessor Engineering Ltd - More Real, Less Time 133 Hill Lane, Southampton SO15 5AF, England tel: +44 23 80 631441, fax: +44 23 80 339691 web: http://www.mpeltd.demon.co.uk - free VFX Forth downloads
2004-12-18 by dalenkarl
--- In lpc2000@yahoogroups.com, "philips_apps" <philips_apps@y...> wrote: > > Hi Karl, Hi philips, the manufacturer! > > give us a break, please. Give us a break? You mean give you a break! No , absolutely not! You give me/us the "user/s" a break instead! >There are things we could improve, e.g. the > Flash interface and we did (fastest ARM7 microcontroller running >from > Flash). There are things that are just not the major strength of an > ARM microcontroller, port switching is definitely one of them. > Honestly, our LPC900 family can switch a port just about as fast as > the ARM can do. Now, if port switching is the major task, there >might be better options than ARM, however, Well, we could turn that "very-late-provided-user-info around and say that why didnt you mention the lousy GPIO speed in the data sheet so the majority of users on this list havent had to figure out that for themself! Im a minor player but i can guarantee that there is some major players here that wasted plenty of money to figure out that GPIO issue, what do you have to say to them? >performance in toggeling a pin but an order of magnitude better >performance in number crunching, why not use......Snip, snip.... Well, this is the usual, manufacturer complaints over the user when the user exposes a fault in the manufacturers design in public! Im for shure are very greatful to those list mailers who exposed this matter in public so i could take notice of it in time! >In regards to the 5V / 3.3V discussion, we think it is not >really an issue. For me its not an issue but as you have seen some of your customers on this list thinks it an issue and if you dont you are out on deep water. Dont wine on me for this matter, wine to those customer who complain about it. Besides i had no idea that you spooked for Philips entierly?! >3.3V, the Vdd should already be somewhere around >2.7V. This difference does not hurt the device but >we are checking with the pin design group what could happen. Then talk to your pin design group on how they forgot to do something with 4 pins that turned out to be 4 NC pins. Or why not rectify the SSEL pin issue! There is no excuse for letting you coustomer be a test car dummy. Kind but reserved Regards KD
2004-12-18 by Peter Jakacki
Ease up there KD, we all have some real issues with the lpc21 family, with any chip in fact. I know the I/O sucks badly and it does need to be addressed, I would of prefered to see this fixed before anything else! But it is unusual to have manufacturer feedback on any group, let alone having a say. So don't go cheesin the apps guys off for the rest of us. Hell, who knows, they probably rip into the design guys for us, they're on our side. But remember, we are not the ones paying them.... -Peter dalenkarl wrote: >Give us a break? You mean give you a break! >No , absolutely not! >You give me/us the "user/s" a break instead! > > <snip snip snip> >There is no excuse for letting you coustomer be a test car dummy. > >Kind but reserved Regards >KD > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.0 - Release Date: 12/17/04
2004-12-19 by lpc2100_fan
Hi Karl, you have made your point and I agree that the I/O performance of ARM7 sucks. However, his is not first of all a Philips problem, it is an architecture problem. Last but not least, I understand that the apps-team is trying to help out in this group, may be, just may be, they did not quite deserve this harsh feedback? Bob --- In lpc2000@yahoogroups.com, "dalenkarl" <dalenkarl@y...> wrote: > > --- In lpc2000@yahoogroups.com, "philips_apps" <philips_apps@y...> > wrote: > > > > Hi Karl, > > Hi philips, the manufacturer! > > > > give us a break, please. > > Give us a break? You mean give you a break! > No , absolutely not! > You give me/us the "user/s" a break instead! > > >There are things we could improve, e.g. the > > Flash interface and we did (fastest ARM7 microcontroller running > >from > > Flash). There are things that are just not the major strength of an > > ARM microcontroller, port switching is definitely one of them. > > Honestly, our LPC900 family can switch a port just about as fast as
> > the ARM can do. Now, if port switching is the major task, there > >might be better options than ARM, however, > > Well, we could turn that "very-late-provided-user-info around > and say that why didnt you mention the lousy GPIO speed in the > data sheet so the majority of users on this list havent had to > figure out that for themself! Im a minor player but i can > guarantee that there is some major players here that wasted > plenty of money to figure out that GPIO issue, what do you > have to say to them? > > >performance in toggeling a pin but an order of magnitude better > >performance in number crunching, why not use......Snip, snip.... > > Well, this is the usual, manufacturer complaints over the > user when the user exposes a fault in the manufacturers > design in public! Im for shure are very greatful to those > list mailers who exposed this matter in public so i could > take notice of it in time! > > >In regards to the 5V / 3.3V discussion, we think it is not > >really an issue. > > For me its not an issue but as you have seen some of your > customers on this list thinks it an issue and if you dont > you are out on deep water. Dont wine on me for this matter, > wine to those customer who complain about it. > > Besides i had no idea that you spooked for Philips entierly?! > > >3.3V, the Vdd should already be somewhere around > >2.7V. This difference does not hurt the device but > >we are checking with the pin design group what could happen. > > Then talk to your pin design group on how they > forgot to do something with 4 pins that turned > out to be 4 NC pins. Or why not rectify the SSEL > pin issue! > > There is no excuse for letting you coustomer be a test car dummy. > > Kind but reserved Regards > KD
2004-12-19 by dalenkarl
--- In lpc2000@yahoogroups.com, Peter Jakacki <peterjak@t...> wrote: > Ease up there KD, Oh, im pretty eased, but our customer are not!! >But it is unusual to have manufacturer feedback on any group, let >alone having a say. So don't go cheesin the apps guys off for the >rest of us. I think Stephen Pelc in his mail pretty much put the issue on the spot, read and learn. If PH are in it for lost market shares, well be my guest! >Hell, who knows, they probably rip into the design guys for us, >they're on our side. As long as you pay they are on your side, you see, its all about getting hard core shares of a huge market,otherwise the simply do something else. >But remember, we are not the ones paying them... Thats right, but our customers does and they pay only for working things,to schdule, on time, to callculated costs, so any thing of "unmentioned issues" regarding to a device adds of everything and thats hard core loss of invested money. The project im involved at the moment involves at least 2K LPC2106 evry third month, and probably more, so summed over a 1-3 year period it starts to be costly and by all rights if our customers not happy we are not happy. Thats quite minor in volume, but in the past i have been involved with the biggest of elephants in wich we did purcases every 6 monts in numbers of 10's of millions devices, each device costing in these volumes 1,5euro you can imagine the money involved, the contracts, insurances, and the whole big holabaluba around just the purcases, one unmentioned "minor" issue here can and have havoced entire projects! Best regards KD
2004-12-20 by lpc2100_fan
Karl, can't help it, have to answer. Is it just my limited knowledge of the English language why I missed the constructive element in your previous 3 postings or ..? If you or your customer buy millions of devices, you have a very personal caretaker at any semiconductor vendor who will dig out any relevant information, assumed it does exist because your business pays for several heads at this vendor. Also there are many software engineers involved looking at related websites such as the www.arm.com, where timing information for I/O through APB or AHB bus has been available for many years. It would be nice if you could stop wining because I am convinced you have a lot of valuable know-how that this group could really benefit from. We have all been burned some time in the past but usually we pull the project off anyhow, often with, sometimes without the help of the semiconductor vendor. So, let's pull together and be a little bit more constructive again, please :-) Every ARM device has some unmentioned issues, e.g. the LPC has an Errata Sheet for the CAN block that tells you the FullCAN option is not functional at this time but there is a good basic CAN example posted here in the files section. Another weakness of the LPC is the poor EEPROM simulation capability. On the other hand the Atmel devices with 64 pins offer about as much I/O capability as the Philips devices with 48-pins. Also ST and Atmel devices are substantially slower in code execution from Flash. For limitations concerning vendor 1 one you have to ask vendor 2 and 3 (not vendor 1) This has nothing to do with hiding information but everything to do with selling what is best about a device. Did you ever hear in a commercial for the Dodge Hemi any mentioning of the mileage? This engine is powerful, so the advertising is about being powerful, not about fuel efficiency. The LPC is small, low power and fast executing from Flash. That is what Philips is advertising and it seems correct to me. Enough now, it's late in the day where I live. Please continue to provide challenging feedback for Philips but try to be a little more constructive. Bob --- In lpc2000@yahoogroups.com, "dalenkarl" <dalenkarl@y...> wrote:
> > --- In lpc2000@yahoogroups.com, Peter Jakacki <peterjak@t...> wrote: > > Ease up there KD, > Oh, im pretty eased, but our customer are not!! > > >But it is unusual to have manufacturer feedback on any group, let > >alone having a say. So don't go cheesin the apps guys off for the > >rest of us. > > I think Stephen Pelc in his mail pretty much put the issue > on the spot, read and learn. If PH are in it for lost market > shares, well be my guest! > > >Hell, who knows, they probably rip into the design guys for us, > >they're on our side. > > As long as you pay they are on your side, you see, its all > about getting hard core shares of a huge market,otherwise > the simply do something else. > > >But remember, we are not the ones paying them... > > Thats right, but our customers does and they pay only for > working things,to schdule, on time, to callculated costs, > so any thing of "unmentioned issues" regarding to a device > adds of everything and thats hard core loss of > invested money. > > The project im involved at the moment involves at least > 2K LPC2106 evry third month, and probably more, so summed > over a 1-3 year period it starts to be costly and by > all rights if our customers not happy we are not happy. > > Thats quite minor in volume, but in the past i have been > involved with the biggest of elephants in wich we did purcases > every 6 monts in numbers of 10's of millions devices, > each device costing in these volumes 1,5euro you can imagine > the money involved, the contracts, insurances, and the whole > big holabaluba around just the purcases, one unmentioned "minor" > issue here can and have havoced entire projects! > > Best regards > KD
2004-12-23 by dalenkarl
--- In lpc2000@yahoogroups.com, "lpc2100_fan" <lpc2100_fan@y...> wrote: Bob, you are getting a bit silly now! > > Karl, > > can't help it, have to answer. > Is it just my limited knowledge of the English language why I missed > the constructive element in your previous 3 postings or ..? Yes you missed it. > or your customer buy millions of devices, you have a very > personal caretaker at any semiconductor vendor who will dig out any > relevant information, assumed it does exist because your business > >pays for several heads at this vendor. Im sorry to say but in your dreams there might be so, its clear that you dont have had the experience you get from beeing involved in millions of units purcasing.There is a big difference between vendor and manufacturer you can only get indepth info from the manufacturer "if" they are willing to give you the info, and that is certanily not the case always.Anything thats baad for sales, they wont even give you a hint.This is nothing new it has been there all the time and will continue to be there. This is not a particular named manufacturer issue, not even a engineering issue,its a money issue. > It would be nice if you could stop wining because I am convinced you > have a lot of valuable know-how that this group could really benefit > from. We have all been burned some time in the past but usually we > pull the project off anyhow, often with, sometimes without the help > of the semiconductor vendor. So, let's pull together and be a > little bit more constructive again, please :-) > Every ARM device has some unmentioned issues, e.g. the LPC has an > Errata Sheet for the CAN block that tells you the FullCAN option is > not functional at this time but there is a good basic CAN example > posted here in the files section. Another weakness of the LPC is > the poor EEPROM simulation capability. > On the other hand the Atmel > devices with 64 pins offer about as >much I/O capability as the > Philips devices with 48-pins. I think its the opposite. And Atmel offers more I/O. >Also ST and Atmel devices are >substantially slower in code execution from Flash. Offcourse they are but they are faster in IO as some users say! Peculiar isnt it! > For limitations concerning vendor 1 one you have to ask vendor 2 > and 3 (not vendor 1) This has nothing to do with > hiding information but everything to do with selling what is best > about a device. That has nothing to do with the LPC2106 GPIO issue discussed earlier. I get the impression that you sound like more of a philips sales men not an engineer! > Did you ever hear in a commercial for the Dodge Hemi > any mentioning of the mileage? This engine is powerful, so the > advertising is about being powerful, not about fuel efficiency. The > LPC is small, low power and fast executing from Flash. That is what > Philips is advertising and it seems correct to me. What as advertising to do with the discussion about GPIO? Absolutely nothing!Please stay to the issue bob you get confused otherwhise!;-) You see,different things concerns different people if you have noticed, some concerns SPI other about the CAN others and i about GPIO, some about software etc, etc. You are talking about sales techniques im and others are talking about engineering issues, who cares if the Dodge Hemi draws a litre or a million litre a european mile! Whats the point contra LPC2106???? Now Bob, im getting realy tierd ,what you are saying is a platitude! You could had swap what you previously said for: "My boeing 747 is so powerful, it draws 10000 litre per second and "we marketing it as super powerful and 350 people can fly with it. There is simply no point,you are comparing apple and grapes using sales terms! > Please continue to provide challenging feedback for Philips > but try to be a little more constructive. Bob, i dont buy your tesings,only this single one because of your complainits about wining wich in turn is not very constructive either. If you don't understand the content of folks mailings regarding problematic issues, ask for futher explenation. If other peoples style of writing dont fit you or it triggers your wine nerve simply ignore mail in question. If it do conserns you, focus on mail contents on device issues discussed in first place and not on the person who happends to write it. For my part matter ended. Regards KD