Ken Wada wrote:
>
> A lot of my buddies use a 'C' compiler for the PIC chip! And this
> thing is really resource constrained!
Yes but could they build a complete, full function ECU in a PIC12C674
running C? Or a 3D navigational system in a PIC16C73?
>
> My most extreme project is using the Philips 83C751 chip. I believe,
> it had no XDATA ram, and only 2K of code available. It had a bunch
> of features in it, (mktg. wanted it this way).
Thankfully my days of being jerked around by marketing are long gone.
correcting the overselling by salesmen is something I can live without.
I guess when it comes to extreme my most extreme, in terms of small,
other than the 8 pin ECU was a commercial white goods design done using
a PIC12C508. The client had been using a philips ASIC, but Philips
decided to compete in their market and withdrew the chip(s). Philips had
about 6 versions for different maisn voltages and motor control
sequences. The Philips solution cost $4.50 built and assembled in 100k
lots. The task was to match that with a single micro based design that
could fill all 6 versions, while meeting all international standards,
being able to operate on a biphase inverter etc. The whole thing used
268bytes of code and 15 bytes of RAM. It has sold massively world wide.
Due to the lack of interrupts on the '508 C was out of the question. It
simply couldn't respond to zero crossing fast enough, nor handle the
remaining processing, and timing , which was tightly bound to the
software, ie the whole thing was a series of hard wired timing loops.
Al
>
> did the entire thing using the Keil 'C' compiler with some
> hand-tweaked assembly language thrown in.
>
> If you want low-power consumption, then in my opinion, the Texas
> Instruments MSP430 chip is king! Couple this thing with that Pumpkin
> OS, and a decent 'C' compiler, and you can really make that chip
> rip!
>
>
I use the MSP430 a lot. It is the core of two of my main products, a
3D imaging and analysis system, and a military class data
accumulator. The former is cost and power constrained, the latter
size and power constrained. In fact I joined the LPC2000 group as I
needed something even faster, with low power, however, although I
haven't completed my LPc evaluation yet, it so far loses out hands
down to the ADuC7024 that I'm also evaluating, and, in terms of power
consumption per executed task both are looking a bit stiff against
the MAXQ2000, which is my third current evaluation part.
> Ken Wada
>
> --- In lpc2000@yahoogroups.com, Onestone <onestone@b...> wrote:
> > Of course it depends what you work on, I've been that path and come
> >
> >
> back
> > again (although a while ago now). The reason is simple. 99% of
> > everything I am currently working on has extreme size or power
> > consumption requirements, but often has a fair degree of
> computational
> > complexity. It would be real nice to bolt in an RTOS, and a few off
> >
> >
> the
> > shelf parts, patch it together with a little C and spit out a
> product.
> > The problem is I haven't yet found any combination that can do this
> >
> >
> fast
> > enough, or compactly enough for my needs. I do test the compilers
> and
> > other tools that come with development kits I buy, but haven't yet
> found
> > one that could do what I need. When I do I'll buy it.
> >
> > In the mean time my products create their own market niche. The
> market
> > for my two main products wouldn't exist if they were more
> > expensive, bigger, or ran for less time between charges. All
> > unachievable with
> COTs
> > ttechniques.
> >
> > Al
> >
> > kennethwada wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> heh...
> >>
> >> I used to do that! In fact, I was a big proponent of always doing
> >>
> >>
> the
> >> 1st project with some 'XYZ-processor architecture' ENTIRELY in
> >> assembler. With technological life-cycles now measured in months
> >> I
> no
> >> longer have the luxury of doing this 'old-school' thing anymore.
> >>
> >> About the only thing I will do hard-core assembly on is the
> >> highly-tweaked DSP/signal processing using FPGA cores, or
> specialized
> >> DSPs anymore. Squeezing every extra MIPS is usually worth the
> hassle
> >> of the extra effort and obtuseness of highly-crafted assembler in
> >>
> >>
> this
> >> case.
> >>
> >> In fact, I used to pooh-pooh shrink-wrapped RTOS's! I was of the
> >> following camp..."I can write my own RTOS, why...I only need
> >> that infinite while(1) loop, and I am fine!". Now that I have
> >> spec'd in
> a
> >> bunch of these shrink-wrapped RTOS's, and written drivers, and a
> bunch
> >> of other stuff like this; I now find myself recommending
> >> shrink-wrapped RTOS's, file-systems and communications servers
> too!
> >>
> >> The trick to successful deployment of this off-the-shelf
> technology is
> >> to wrapper this stuff so most of the details are hidden to the
> >> applications developers. All the apps-developers need to know is
> how
> >> to write generic C/C++ code in a generic environment like DOS,
> Linux,
> >> or Windows!
> >>
> >> Ken Wada
> >>
> >> --- In lpc2000@yahoogroups.com, Onestone <onestone@b...> wrote:
> >>> Ah but the objective of learnig ARM ASM was to understand the
> fine
> >>> details of the instruction set to write my own optimised code,
> not
> >> to
> >>> use C, or somebody elses generic optimisation.
> >>>
> >>> Al
> >>>
> >>> kennethwada wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> The fastest way to use this is to do the following: - Write a
> >>>> small piece of Keil "C" code - Compile with the listing and
> >>>> Assemble source options checked - look at dissassembled code
> >>>> with the "Arm Architeture
> Reference
> >>>> Manual at your side"
> >>>>
> >>>> I did this, and managed to get some quality assembly language
> >>>>
> >>>>
> code
> >> up
> >>>> and operational in an hour or two!
> >>>>
> >>>> Most of my asm code is in the startup. With the Keil tools,
> there
> >>>> really is very little, or no need to write your own
> >>>> assembler.
> >>>>
> >>>> Ken Wada
> >>>>
> >>>> --- In lpc2000@yahoogroups.com, Onestone <onestone@b...>
> wrote:
> >>>>> And a lot of time. It's 811 pages long! few days read for a
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >> decent
> >>>>> novel, but a lifetime for a reference book!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Al
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Ken Wada wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> RE:Learning ARM ASM
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Hello Chip; You need the "Arm Archtitecture Reference
> >>>>>> Manual"
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Ken Wada
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT
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> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
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