MOTM

In a message dated 3/14/2001 9:58:58 AM, synth1@... writes:

>> This is an eternally debated subject.
>
>Only among the wicked and ignorant :)


With an opening like that, how can I resist!


>> The general feeling about banana jacks seems to be that the stacking
>aspect
>> is a great plus (I don't think anyone DOESN'T like that aspect, except
>that
>> the plugs can quickly stick many inches out of a panel)
>
>So what?


To quote a friend of mine (circa 82) "multiples are a drag!" Beyond the 
obvious reasons why stacking makes patch tracing easier, and you need one 
fewer patch cord per patch, there is also the problem of physically running 
out of multiples (like no one on this list has ever run into that problem mid 
patch). I find this to be a huge drag when you need just one more output from 
some module. So you always need to buy (or build) more multiples than you 
imagine you need, just in case.


>Bananas suffer from:
>
>a) un-shielded connections. Name ONE PIECE of professional recording gear,
>besides
>Serge or Modcan, that uses them. If they are so "wonderful", why doesn't
>SSL
>use them on
>consoles?
>
>BECAUSE THEY ARE UNSHIELDED, THAT'S WHY!
>
>b) they force you to ONE SUPPLIER of patchcords (ITT Pomona).
>
>c) They can't offer switching jacks. Switching jacks are INTEGRAL TO MOTM
>SYSTEM DESIGN.


No argument here! Item c) was the proximate cause to my changing back from 
bananas to 1/4" jacks. But I understand Paul's desire to be the maker of the 
best (i.e., highest s/n, least crosstalk, least drift, coolest, etc.) 
modulars ever, and 1/4" seem to be the best choice for that.



In a message dated 3/14/2001 10:00:51 AM, nate@... writes:

>i can think of a few reasons i don't like banana plugs
>
>1 easier for noise to enter the patch [lack of shielding]
>2 no locking mechanism [bananas can be pulled out too easily]
>3 somewhere in the patch you need to have a banana to 1/4 convertor for
>interfacing other equipment
>4 banana patch cords aren't commonly found in stores [I love building
>modules, but have soldering patch cords]
>5 1/4" metal jacks look nicer than plastic banana jacks [purely cosmetic]

Nate is absolutely right with number 1, noticeable crosstalk. Serge T. may 
have minimized this by using a nonstandard output impedance of 330 ohms (he 
certainly implied this, but I've never gotten a definitive answer from an EE 
type) instead of 1K. I absolutely don't agree with 2 (if you use the Pomona 
made cables, which I like a lot), they stay well connected. As for 4, you can 
usually find ITT cables at any reasonably stocked electronic store (though 
over priced, good prices from Technitool if I recall), and RS carries kinda 
crappy stacking plugs in a pinch.


In a message dated 3/14/2001 10:01:30 AM, elhardt@... writes:

> Banana 
>plugs seem about as practical as RCA jacks on a modular.  Nor do I want
>to be 
>plugging and unplugging on top of or inbetween a stack of banana plugs.
> 
>Multiples are cleaner.  


The RCA comparison seems a bit farfetched since I've had numerous problems w
ith most any RCAs I've ever used (in terms of reliability) and they have that 
weird "tip makes before ground" problem which always makes for good listening 
-- and of course they don't stack.

I've never found it terribly difficult to pull out a few stacked plugs, 
remove one, and plug the rest back in. Nor do I expect to find it difficult 
to make sure the plug I pull from a MOTM multiple won't suddenly switch that 
group of multiples to an adjacent group -- it's just different.


  They just aren't plugs for patching audio.
>
>>>paul, care to comment on why you went 1/4"?  i know you've *GOT* to 
>have an opinion on this one.<<
>
>I can't comment for him, but it's a 1/4" world when it comes to a music
>
>studio and synth setup.  No need to introduce yet one more problem.


This is absolutely true, and is again one of the best reasons that one should 
choose 1/4". I'm glad Paul made that choice. But I'm under the impression 
that things weren't as clear cut in the mid seventies when Serge T. made the 
decision to use bananas (e.g., ARP was 1/8" or was it 3.5mm, home cassette 
recording was RCA, Moog used those fine CInch Jones plugs for the triggers). 

I believe (I could be wrong) that Serge was trying to make an instrument to 
make Krell music (thanks Ken) so one would have no preconceptions about how 
to patch it up -- what's more is that several useful functions required a 
module's output to be patched to its own input to cause it to function in a 
particular way. In those cases one would absolutely need lots of multiples or 
many additional switches to route the signals appropriately -- that would 
make it an even more confusing machine for a novice. I also believe that 
Serge was making a machine that would be relatively cheap for the student 
types among us who were interested in more avante garde EM, so bananas filled 
this bill as well.

I have to add that I've never had a bad jack on my small Serge (which I've 
had for about 15 years) and the few problems that I've had with my home brew 
stuff (using the embarrassingly cheapo Johnson jacks) haven't been as bad as 
some have mentioned. OTOH, I've had nothing but trouble with the jacks on my 
2600, and consequentially hate those ones -- they look like hell to replace 
too!

JB