MOTM

>>>>
Adam is very kind but I would simply change printing company
Enrico (Italy)
<<<<

There's nothing "simple" about it! Printing high resolution images on 
painted metal requires fine mesh screens, precise registration, the 
correct ink, and lots of experience. You can't just go to any old T-
Shirt maker. We worked with this printer over several print runs 
before we were satisfied with the quality. 

Most companies would not even fool with us at our run rates (100 to 
150 panels total per order, 1 to 25 panels per design - each design 
requires tearing down and reregistering a new screen).

We won't be doing stooge panels forever. We are running out of decent 
volume designs to do, and one off custom stuff won't be worth it in 
the future if that's all we are doing. When Larry and I get our 
behemoth systems finished we'll have all the custom panels we need, 
which was why I started this whole thing in the first place. When 
that day comes, we'll probably make another panel run or two to flush 
out everybody's anticipated needs, then retire to the Caribbean on 
our vast profits<g>.

If you find stooge panels useful, it's good that you are an MOTM 
customer now. People coming to our world a few years from now may not 
be able to buy them. Think of how the value of your stoogified 
modules will skyrocket!

Anyway, it doesn't make sense to try to train a new printer. I 
believe my current printer when he says he's not making any money on 
us, after he figures out the time he puts in. He was giving us a 
break to begin with because his son is an MOTMer. So, we'll pay him 
more next time.

Moe

----- Original Message -----

From: mate_stubb <mate_stubb@...>
Anyway, it doesn't make sense to try to train a new printer. I believe my
current printer when he says he's not making any money on us, after he
figures out the time he puts in. He was giving us a break to begin with
because his son is an MOTMer. So, we'll pay him more next time.

--LH--
Yes, I have to agree with Moe.  We are lucky to have the guy we do at the
prices we are getting.  We don't have the luxury of running just one or two
designs and getting 75 or so of each one as if we were doing larger runs
like Paul.  If so, the change from $10 to $20 would seem small spread across
that many panels.  But, sometimes we are spreading that cost across only 1
to 5 panels.  So, it makes a huge difference.  Plus, we already have the
screens all cut with this guy.  It would be very expensive to start over.
This guy has treated us very well.  I did not mean to imply otherwise.  But,
I did want to say that the pricing structure will be different in the
future.

So, in the future instead of saying a common 2U panel design is $23 as we do
today, prices will be ranged like say $25 to $40.  If I get orders for only
1 it might be $40, 2 might be $35 each, and if we get orders for close to 20
they would be at the bottom of the range as the $20 set up (above the cost
of cutting new screens) is spread across many panels.  These are not
calculated new prices, just an example of how future pricing will work for
existing screens.  Sort of similar to DIY pricing one-off price schedule,
but not as high.  I don;t think we will even be able to compete with
one-offs from a place like Schaeffer.  But, they will never make panels that
match MOTM as closely as we do.

And, as Moe has stated, Stooge panels is a short term project.   We will
most certainly be printing panels at least twice again in 2003.  Then, we
will have to evaluate what the future holds.  But, without question, this
has been a huge success.  While Paul counts his way toward exceeding the
number of modules sold by Moog, Stooge panels has no doubt already exceeded
the number of modules sold by some lesser known modular companies.

Larry

OK, now I almost need to apologize....
only my expression wasn't polemic though it might seem and, above all, 
not at all addressed to Larry or Moe.
I consider myself as being a good (or potentially) a good stooge 
customer. Whenever I write to Larry I first praise their incredible 
job that I consider a blessing for our community and I also consider 
it almost like a mission, even if in the end they get a nice profit (I 
really hope they do but it's easy to suspect that they probably don't)
It was just a simple reaction when I hear sentences like "doubling a 
price", it doesn't sound realistic so I just thought this guy (the 
printer)was somebody not so much happy to do this job and, since I 
thought silkscreening service wasn't something so exoteric neither so 
difficult to find around I just said that simplicictic expression. But 
there may be situations I'm not acquainted with and every time I learn 
that not a single opinion must be expressed when  one (me!)doesn't 
exactly know the reality he is talking about. I'm sorry that Moe had 
to point out how difficult and hard and at the same time useful is all 
this panels affair, done also to help each other in getting the 
modular of our dreams. This was absolutely out of discussion from my 
side and I think quite evident in each private correspondance I had in 
particular with Larry.
HAPPY MUSIC and HAPPY STOOGE PANELS till we are lucky to enjoy them.
Enrico (ITALY)

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: edibennardo <endiendi@...>
> OK, now I almost need to apologize....

No offense taken at all.  It did sound horrible -- double the price.  I
should have added something about how good the price still was...  We could
do a lot better on price if I would print 50 at a time.  But, my garage
space and pocket book could not stand that. We currently have 32 different
designs.

> I consider myself as being a good (or potentially) a good stooge customer.
Whenever I write to Larry I first praise their incredible job that I
consider a blessing for our community and I also consider it almost like a
mission, even if in the end they get a nice profit

Everyone here is a great customer and appreciative. That makes it a lot
easier.   Even though everybody has to pay well in advance, and we never
seem to deliver when we think we will, no one complains (well, I bitch now
and then). :)
This whole thing would be perfect if my business partner wasn't such a
stooge.... nyunk  nyuck  :)

> (I really hope they do but it's easy to suspect that they probably don't)

Moe and I make enough to put up with the trouble. We won't be feeding the
families or paying the mortgage with it.  But, it helps support the modular
habit.

Stooge Larry

> I don;t think we will even be able to compete with
> one-offs from a place like Schaeffer.  But, they will never make panels that
> match MOTM as closely as we do.

Just out of curiosity, has anyone here done business with Schaeffer? I
downloaded their design program, and if I'm understanding the demo file, the
prices are lower than I expected. OTOH it looks like one might spend more on
shipping than on the panels themselves, if one happens to live outside of
the EU.

I realize that they're not going to generate something that looks like a
MOTM panel, but I've already figured out that my ultimate sequencer (doesn't
everyone have an ultimate sequencer design?) isn't going to fit into the
MOTM form factor anyway.

--Adam

I've done a couple of panels through Schaeffer, one a custom job I 
created for a CGS Burst Generator, and a few designed by Tony 
Allgood.  They are inexpensive, even with shipping to the States.  
The paint is flat and the lettering is engraved so the panels look 
slightly different from MOTM.  On the other hand, you could send 
them a blank MOTM panel and they would use that (doubles your 
postage though).

I recommend them!

Mike

--- In motm@y..., Adam Schabtach <adam@s...> wrote:
> > I don;t think we will even be able to compete with
> > one-offs from a place like Schaeffer.  But, they will never make 
panels that
> > match MOTM as closely as we do.
> 
> Just out of curiosity, has anyone here done business with 
Schaeffer? I
> downloaded their design program, and if I'm understanding the demo 
file, the
> prices are lower than I expected. OTOH it looks like one might 
spend more on
> shipping than on the panels themselves, if one happens to live 
outside of
> the EU.
> 
> I realize that they're not going to generate something that looks 
like a
> MOTM panel, but I've already figured out that my ultimate 
sequencer (doesn't
> everyone have an ultimate sequencer design?) isn't going to fit 
into the

> MOTM form factor anyway.
> 
> --Adam

I think one of the great things about Schaeffer is they are fast (compared
to our slow process) and they panels can be very customized.  I think many /
most of JH's beautiful panels.  The only downside is you are responsible for
your own artwork as I see it.  I myself and computer art challenged.  That's
why Moe does it all. :)
Larry H

----- Original Message -----
From: mmarsh100 <mmarsh@...>
I recommend them!
Mike

> ----- Original Message -----
> Looking at Larry's schedule
http://www.wiseguysynth.com/larry/panel/panel-time.htm
> the panel delivery cycle is just about complete.

Yes, and no.  We are behind.  Delivery in September... Sigh....

> I'm wondering when  the next one will start.

Look for something around the end of the year to start the next one.
Delivery in early 2003.  Sound like a long time.  But it is only 4 1/2
months until the end of the year and we am still working on the May order.

Now I know why Paul sighs so much  :)