MOTM

By the way, I�m going to step out of this discussion because Paul is going
to solve my problem.�� I�ve got no need to discuss it publicly because Paul
S is going way out of his way to help me out.

If anyone wants to discuss it we me, pls do privately.

Thanks
p

> By the way, I’m going to step out of this discussion because Paul is going
> to solve my problem.   I’ve got no need to discuss it publicly because
> Paul
> S is going way out of his way to help me out.

Uh, if there's a known solution to an issue with MOTM modules that has come
up several times in discussion on this list, isn't it worth describing here?
I'm still somewhat puzzled by the whole thing, as there seems to have been a
lot of _general_ discussion about the theoretical constraints of fast attack
times, CV feedthrough, etc., but no _specific_ discussion of the combination
of the MOTM 800 EG and the MOTM 110 VCA. My own experimentation and
discussion with Paul led me to put bigger attack-timing caps in my 800s,
which made the combination behave more to my liking, but if there's some
other known issue and solution, I'd appreciate hearing it (as an owner of
four 800 EGs, two 110 VCAs, and one 190 VCA).

--Adam

--
Adam Schabtach
www.studionebula.com

On Fri, 8 Apr 2005, Adam Schabtach wrote:
> Uh, if there's a known solution to an issue with MOTM modules that has come
> up several times in discussion on this list, isn't it worth describing here?
> I'm still somewhat puzzled by the whole thing, as there seems to have been a
> lot of _general_ discussion about the theoretical constraints of fast attack
> times, CV feedthrough, etc., but no _specific_ discussion of the combination
> of the MOTM 800 EG and the MOTM 110 VCA. My own experimentation and
> discussion with Paul led me to put bigger attack-timing caps in my 800s,
> which made the combination behave more to my liking, but if there's some
> other known issue and solution, I'd appreciate hearing it (as an owner of
> four 800 EGs, two 110 VCAs, and one 190 VCA).

My guess is that if there is something wrong and it's not just perceptual 
it's a hardware problem. Resistor in wrong place or failed component, the 
problem Paul described with timing on cheap ADC inputs, who knows.  I've 
swapped parts on accident once or twice and got some weird behaviors with 
my modules. These things, they happen.

When I first heard clicking on my 190 I was pretty annoyed with it. See, 
like a lot of younger (loose term) musicians who have never owned an 
analog synth I had never had to deal with this issue. Most, if not all 
digital synths will trigger the VCAs at the zero cross point. It's 
laughably trivial to do in software (and if you don't customers tell you 
it's a bug...) Other ones will filter the attack, or other such stuff. 
Clicking is frequently undesirable, so it's usually compensated for in DSP 
based synths.

I'm guessing a lot of analog synthesis newcomers hear this for the first 
time and think something is broken. Then you get the "me too!"s when 
someone with a legitimate hardware problem complains about clicking. 
Anyway, that's what I see.

Analog just requires a different bag of tricks than DSP synths. Sometimes 
I'll use the sync i/o on a 300 with the gate to "reset" the oscillator and 
line it up to reduce clicking. (Works really well when using the LFO as 
sub oscillator...) You really get up close and personal with your signal 
on a modular...

--mikes

There are only 2 solutions:

a) your external gear (headphones, amps, mixer, whatever) is not as sensitive
b) you have to "slow down" the edges of the transient, because what you are 
making IS a transient

As JH pointed out, a 'kluge' for (a) is getting a good high-value *film* cap 
(like a 4.7uf poly) and using that on the output cable of the VCA. You might try 
even a 'Black Gate' 10uf (bring $$$).

It's easier to mess with (b), using cap C9 on the '800. You can do 2 things:

1- make the cap a 10uf NP, which slows down all 3 times (A/D/R) so that once the 
pots are off the '0' tick, the times are long enough

2 - make the cap *smaller* (say 1uf or even 0.47) as your "pounding bass EG". 
Now, if you do this, what will happen is from ticks '0' to probably '2' the time 
constant will be super fast (no help) BUT you will be able to 'dial in' a time 
that won't click and still be "snappy"

Paul S.

. >'m guessing a lot of analog synthesis newcomers hear this for the first 
>ime and think something is broken. Then you get the "me too!"s when 

I'm not a newcomer by *any* stretch of the imagination.  Nor is this my only
modular.

I know wrong when I hear it.  I'm not an idiot.