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Zeroscillator MOTM Style Panels are Here!

Zeroscillator MOTM Style Panels are Here!

2005-12-19 by Cynthia

Two-Hundred MOTM style Zeroscillator front panels arrived today, 
and I'm very happy to report that they match the actual factory MOTM panels perfectly!

The Cyndustries MOTM Zeroscillator front panels are an ~exact~ match for MOTM
and will fit seamlessly right into your MOTM rigs.

Hooray!

Please join in the discussion and see the latest photos at The Cyndustries List 

http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/The_Cyndustries_List/

Best Wishes!


Cynthia 

www.cyndustries.com

Zeroscillator and a thought for Paul

2005-12-19 by Luca

Hello Motm users,
I just made my order for zeroscillator, being a big FM programmer. I 
guess Paul could design more interesting modules in the future like 
this. I'm sure Paul can design beautiful and strange modules (I'm 
waiting for my filter bank too).
I'm a loyal fan of Motm for its sound and I'd like to have more unusual 
MOTM modules made by Paul, but for now I have to buy from others to add 
new sound sources... sorry Paul.
This is my prayer for Christmas :-))
Happy Holiday and Happy Motm
Luca
from Italy

Re: [motm] Zeroscillator and a thought for Paul

2005-12-20 by Paul Schreiber

Well, there are several ways to approach building 'strange' modules:

a) the #1 selling MOTM module is the MOTM-800 EG
b) the MOTM-510 WaveWarper has sold less than the MOTM-420 VCF by 2:1

I call this the 'Buchla Pyramid' effect: the stranger your modules, the smaller 
the customer base. You begin to approch the limit of only 1 person in the world 
wanting what you have :)

I have several 'strange' modules in the works. 2005 was spent trying to ship all 
the un-strange ones on order (mostly from June of last year, when prices were 
about to go up and over 700 modules were ordered in a span of *10 days*).

The other issue with 'strangeness' is people want *different degrees* of it. 
Again, take the '510. Larry Hendry told me he tried to use it for 10min before 
audio even came out. He never used it again. Robert Rich took the prototype and 
made *entire tracks* on his last CD 'Lithosphere' using it.

Paul S.

Re: [motm] Zeroscillator and a thought for Paul

2005-12-20 by Paul Haneberg

I too would love to have more strange modules and am looking forward to 
speculated additions to the 500 series.

But, I understand the economics that are at work here.

I sincerely hope that the zeroscillator is a smashing success.  At some 
point I may buy one or even several.  But the present SynthTech business 
model requires that a certain minimum number of any given module be sold in 
order to be a success.  The fewer modules of a given type that are going to 
sell the higher the price point must be.  Look at what Buchla modules cost! 
And $650 is not cheap for an oscillator, even one this interesting.  I would 
remind everyone that there have been complaints in the past about prices.

In order to be financially successful with small numbers requires that 
certain business functions must work on a small scale.
Just to give you some of my experience from working with Paul:

We can pack solder into 200 baggies at a lower per unit cost than 20.  Why? 
Because solder is cheaper in larger quantities, but also because we have a 
certain process we use which minimizes labor, but requires some setup time. 
So labor is also cheaper per unit with larger quantities.

The same applies to putting resistors in baggies.  The more resistors for 
any one kit done at a given time lowers the cost.

The same applies to every aspect of putting together the kits.  The more 
kits put together at a given time, the lower the cost per kit.

And then there is also the amortization of the design and prototyping 
expense to consider.  How much time and effort goes into getting a kit into 
production?  The design of the circuit must be done, breadboarded, tested, 
prototyped, beta tested, etc.  The PCB must be designed, the panel must be 
designed.  Parts must be spec'ed and purchased.  The manual must be written. 
The website must be revised.  How much is Paul's time worth?

The bottom line is that when Paul talks about making a certain kit, and the 
enthusiasm and preorders fail to reach a certain level, that kit may not get 
built, or it may not get built for a long time.  The demand could be said to 
be below the threshold required to generate the trigger for putting a module 
into production.

The threshold could be set lower, but then the selling price would have to 
be higher.

I personally believe that the threshold can be lowered somewhat by improving 
the process for manufacturing panels.  This is why I have chosen to pursue 
that direction.

But even if the threshold is lowered, that still doesn't mean the demand is 
there.  I remember a poll taken on this group not too long ago.  The most 
requested modules were things like the VCEG, not the cloud generator.

If the members of this group want the new modules, go online and order a 520 
or a 450 or even a 600.  I'd sure like to get mine sooner rather than later 
or not at all.  And I have ordered mine long ago.  I'd like to see that 
threshold crossed.

I could name any number of ideas for strange modules.  But what if only 20 
are likely to be sold?  What if the demand is only 10 or 15?  Is there a 
viable way to design and manufacture modules or kits that can be profitable 
with sales that low?

Possibly, but the price must be high enough to justify the effort.

So I'll pose this question to the group:  How many of you would pay $650 for 
a cloud generator?  I probably wouldn't.  How many would pay $1000?  I 
definitely wouldn't.  How about $400?

How many will pay $650 for the zeroscillator?  I might.  I haven't decided 
yet.  I'd really like to have 4, but not at $2400.  If they were $350 each I 
would have placed the order by now.

If you're not sure you can sell enough of a certain module, strange or not, 
to make a reasonable profit, you're not going to sell it at all.

Re: [motm] Zeroscillator and a thought for Paul

2005-12-20 by John Laudicina

--- Paul Haneberg <phaneber@...> wrote:

> I too would love to have more strange modules and am
> looking forward to 
> speculated additions to the 500 series.
> 
> But, I understand the economics that are at work
> here.
> 
> I sincerely hope that the zeroscillator is a
> smashing success.  At some 
> point I may buy one or even several.  But the
> present SynthTech business 
> model requires that a certain minimum number of any
> given module be sold in 
> order to be a success.  The fewer modules of a given
> type that are going to 
> sell the higher the price point must be.  Look at
> what Buchla modules cost! 
> And $650 is not cheap for an oscillator, even one
> this interesting.  I would 
> remind everyone that there have been complaints in
> the past about prices.

> How many will pay $650 for the zeroscillator?  I
> might.  I haven't decided 
> yet.  I'd really like to have 4, but not at $2400. 
> If they were $350 each I 
> would have placed the order by now.

I agree completly,  I didnt order a zeroscillator due
to the cost.  650 is way out of my buget.  I am not a
musician and this is a hobby, for me to spend this
kind of money on something that is not making me money
is hard to justify.  
If the prices keep going the way they are going I
think we will price ourselves out of a market.

It has been my dream to own a modular synth since
1970.   Thanks to Paul S. my dream has come true.  I
started by the kits, After building MANY of Pauls kits
I built a couple of Blacet kits (MUCH   MUCH HARDER
than MOTM)  I have found building MOTM kits to be like
a drug to me it calms me down and I find relaxation in
doing something besides work.   I build my own
cabinets and MULTS and all of my cables, to keep my
cost down and to stay out of a divorce court.  If my
wife had any idea that I would even consider spending
650 on one module she would kill me.
> 
> If you're not sure you can sell enough of a certain
> module, strange or not, 
> to make a reasonable profit, you're not going to
> sell it at all.
> 
I guess this is a catch 22.

Paul and Paul Keep up the great work, and hopefull
next year will be a prosperious year (less Hurricanes)
and I can order my USEQ...

John in Miami
> 
> 
> 


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Re: Zeroscillator and a thought for Paul

2005-12-20 by Mike Marsh

To me, *any* module triggers thoughts about how to use it.  An unusual
module may trigger unusual thoughts more than a usual module and may
lead to something interesting, though simply hooking usual modules up
'wrong' can lead to nifty stuff, too.

I guess my point is that, to quote god (obscure reference), "it's in
the way that you use it".  I built a pretty comprehensive usual system
and then have added many unusual modules.  I am not a pro, or even a
semi-pro, but I am a musician and I can justify pretty much any
expenditure as long as it results in music.  

Music is better than money.

Mike

--- In motm@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Schreiber" <synth1@a...> wrote:
>
> Well, there are several ways to approach building 'strange' modules:
> 
> a) the #1 selling MOTM module is the MOTM-800 EG
> b) the MOTM-510 WaveWarper has sold less than the MOTM-420 VCF by 2:1
> 
> I call this the 'Buchla Pyramid' effect: the stranger your modules,
the smaller 
> the customer base. You begin to approch the limit of only 1 person
in the world 
> wanting what you have :)
> 
> I have several 'strange' modules in the works. 2005 was spent trying
to ship all 
> the un-strange ones on order (mostly from June of last year, when
prices were 
> about to go up and over 700 modules were ordered in a span of *10
days*).
> 
> The other issue with 'strangeness' is people want *different
degrees* of it. 
> Again, take the '510. Larry Hendry told me he tried to use it for
10min before 
> audio even came out. He never used it again. Robert Rich took the
prototype and 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> made *entire tracks* on his last CD 'Lithosphere' using it.
> 
> Paul S.
>

Re: [motm] Zeroscillator and a thought for Paul

2005-12-21 by john mahoney

> ... The pricetag isn't the main reason I won't be buying a
> Zeroscillator.
> -- Adam


Adam,
Would you care to elaborate? Are you aware of some technical issues of
relevance, or...?
--
john

RE: [motm] Zeroscillator and a thought for Paul

2005-12-21 by Adam Schabtach

> Adam,
> Would you care to elaborate? Are you aware of some technical issues of
> relevance, or...?

I've purchased one item from Cyndustries and am not a happy customer, so I
don't plan to transact further business with them. 'Nuff said for here; if
you want the gory details, contact me privately.

--Adam

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