MOTM

Hi,

While waiting for the motm MOTM to arrive I'll be having loads of  
time to think about a nice cabinet.

I see that the original MOTM rails are 19" wide. But I'll be building  
my own cabinet anyway, and somehow a bit wider looks better to me.  
For example, the 48" wide synthesizers.com cabinets look good to me.

Also, what is a good depth? The synthesizers.com is 8.5" I see.

What do you generally do? Are there any widths (except 19") and  
depths that can be considered 'standard'?

Do you always use rails to mount the modules, or is wood okay too?

Is any cooling needed? I'll probably get a 40 or 60 W Power-One  
linear supply. With an efficiency of about 50%, that is a lot of heat  
to get rid of. I've read on these lists that they are used by other  
people too, with good results. Are those also used in the original  
MOTM power supplies?

With kind regards,
Ben

Thoughts below.

Richard Brewster
http://www.pugix.com

Ben Stuyts wrote:
> Hi,
>
> While waiting for the motm MOTM to arrive I'll be having loads of  
> time to think about a nice cabinet.
>
> I see that the original MOTM rails are 19" wide. But I'll be building  
> my own cabinet anyway, and somehow a bit wider looks better to me.  
> For example, the 48" wide synthesizers.com cabinets look good to me.
>   
I like mine a lot.  It is not too hard to convert one, if you can get 
the right rails.  I don't remember who, if anyone, is supplying these now.

http://www.pugix.com/cabinet_new.htm

> Also, what is a good depth? The synthesizers.com is 8.5" I see.
>   
I need the 8.5 inch depth for Blacet and other conversions.  If you have 
only MOTM modules, then half that depth should be sufficient.  The 8.5 
inch depth also allows me to mount MOTM-depth modules in front of my 
power supplies, which as you can see I mount in a non-standard way, off 
the panel.
> What do you generally do? Are there any widths (except 19") and  
> depths that can be considered 'standard'?
>   
The cabinet width is largely up to you.  I have seen a lot of 24U width 
cabinets out there.  Dot com conversion cabinets provide 26U, because 
MOTM modules are narrower than dot com.  For me that comes to an extra 
10U across all five cabinets.
> Do you always use rails to mount the modules, or is wood okay too?
>   
I highly recommend rails.  You will be dismounting modules a lot and 
wood holes deteriorate quickly.  Steel rails with good machine screws 
last a long time, and if you cross thread a hole, it can be fixed.
> Is any cooling needed? I'll probably get a 40 or 60 W Power-One  
> linear supply. With an efficiency of about 50%, that is a lot of heat  
> to get rid of. I've read on these lists that they are used by other  
> people too, with good results. Are those also used in the original  
> MOTM power supplies?
>   
Yes, MOTM supplies use Power One units.  Ventilation is important, but 
you want convection, not noisy fans.  I removed the back from my 
single-height dot com cabinets for serviceability, and this helps 
ventilation.  The big slant cabinet has a closed back except for around 
the power supply area, and a slit in front on each end of the top row, 
where end caps are supposed to go.  I have wondered if that is enough 
air flow.

> With kind regards,
> Ben
>
>
>
>

I suggest a depth of a *least* 8in, because you need air flow and the largest 
MOTM depth is about 5 inches. You need additional area for the power cables, 
too.

Paul S.

> Also, what is a good depth? The synthesizers.com is 8.5" I see.

That's probably fine. Mine are a bit shallower than that, even.

> Do you always use rails to mount the modules, or is wood okay too?

I use wood. I haven't had any trouble with the threads wearing out, but I am
careful when I put screws back in, and I use high-quality square-drive wood
screws rather than cheap hardware-store screws. I personally don't see
enough advantages in metal rails to merit the expense, although it depends
on whether or not you like drilling lots of holes. :-)

> Is any cooling needed?

I use pegboard for the backs of my cabinets, on the assumption that it
provides some convective cooling while keeping out most of the dust. I don't
know whether "pegboard" translates well into your language. :-) It's
wood-like material about 5mm thick, made from some sort of compressed
fibers, with holes about 5mm in diameter every couple of cm. People
traditionally use it to hang tools on by attaching sheets to walls and
inserting pegs (actually hooks) into the holes.

> Are those also used in the original MOTM power supplies?

Yes, SynthTech uses Power One supplies.

--Adam

If wood is a viable choice, then I suppose you could simply buy a dot 
com walnut cabinet and start mounting modules.  You would need to drill 
pilot holes, because the ones supplied don't match MOTM.

Adam, do you have a part number for the wood screws you use?  And can 
you explain 'square-drive', please.

-Richard Brewster

Adam Schabtach wrote:

> I use wood. I haven't had any trouble with the threads wearing out, but I am
> careful when I put screws back in, and I use high-quality square-drive wood
> screws rather than cheap hardware-store screws. I personally don't see
> enough advantages in metal rails to merit the expense, although it depends
> on whether or not you like drilling lots of holes. :-)
>

They have square recesses in the heads, rather than a single slot or a pair
of crossed slots. The manufacturer, McFeely's, can explain them far better
than I can:
http://www.mcfeelys.com/tech/faq.asp

I use part # 0806-PSK-C for mounting modules.

--Adam 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Richard Brewster [mailto:pugix@...] 
> Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2006 12:48 PM
> To: Adam Schabtach
> Cc: 'MOTM litserv'
> Subject: Re: [motm] Cabinet and power requirments
> 
> If wood is a viable choice, then I suppose you could simply 
> buy a dot com walnut cabinet and start mounting modules.  You 
> would need to drill pilot holes, because the ones supplied 
> don't match MOTM.
> 
> Adam, do you have a part number for the wood screws you use?  
> And can you explain 'square-drive', please.
> 
> -Richard Brewster
> 
> Adam Schabtach wrote:
> > I use wood. I haven't had any trouble with the threads wearing out, 
> > but I am careful when I put screws back in, and I use high-quality 
> > square-drive wood screws rather than cheap hardware-store screws. I 
> > personally don't see enough advantages in metal rails to merit the 
> > expense, although it depends on whether or not you like 
> drilling lots 
> > of holes. :-)
> >   
> 
> 
> 
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

Square head screws are very popular in my part of the world. One 
thing I didn't see mentioned on McFeelys website is that you can 
often jamb a screw onto the screwdriver so that it doesn't fall off. 
This is incredibly useful when you are trying to insert a screw into 
a hole at various angles; gravity becomes irrelevant. Try doing that 
with a philips or a slotted screw head.

>They have square recesses in the heads, rather than a single slot or a pair
>of crossed slots. The manufacturer, McFeely's, can explain them far better
>than I can:
>http://www.mcfeelys.com/tech/faq.asp
>
>I use part # 0806-PSK-C for mounting modules.
>

Hi,

Thank you all for your comments. Lots of useful information, also on  
the linked websites. I have a lot of reading to do. :-)

I've ordered about 30 U width of kits, so maybe a slanted cabinet of  
22U wide x 10 U high would be a good idea. (Similar to the QSC44 from  
synth.com.) I'll probably go with some sort of rails, probably self- 
made, as I can see things moving around a lot before they find their  
final place.

Do you move modules around a lot? Or do they stay in their place  
after a while? (For example, do you put all VCO's together, what do  
you do when you add another one?)

Thanks,
Ben

I am always shifting things around, everytime I get a
new module things get shifted  I have yet to come up
with the perfect set up. 
 It seems I am always building another cabinet, last
weekend I built another side wing cabinet and I use
the stooges rails for all of the MOTM modules, for the
dot com modules I use no rails, just drill into the
wood, I wish the rails went both ways...  having the
rails make moving things around allot easier for me. 
When I built my first cabinet I made my own rails and
to be honest it was a pain in the ass, it took several
hours with the drill press and taps.  I used aluminum
angle iron.  On that cabintet I still have those rails
on it but all of my newer ones are stooge rails. 
worth every penny.
If you have any wood working skills you should build
your own cabinets, the money you save you can buy more
MOTM modules.

John
--- Ben Stuyts <ben@...> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Thank you all for your comments. Lots of useful
> information, also on  
> the linked websites. I have a lot of reading to do.
> :-)
> 
> I've ordered about 30 U width of kits, so maybe a
> slanted cabinet of  
> 22U wide x 10 U high would be a good idea. (Similar
> to the QSC44 from  
> synth.com.) I'll probably go with some sort of
> rails, probably self- 
> made, as I can see things moving around a lot before
> they find their  
> final place.
> 
> Do you move modules around a lot? Or do they stay in
> their place  
> after a while? (For example, do you put all VCO's
> together, what do  
> you do when you add another one?)
> 
> Thanks,
> Ben
> 
> 


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I like to keep similar modules together.  But as I add modules it 
requires moving things around to keep adherence to this principle.  If I 
add another VCO, then I make room for it next to the other VCO's.  That 
probably means moving something that is not a VCO that was next to the 
VCO's.  That leads to yet another shift.  Musical modules!  The last 
time I played this game, two of them didn't get 'chairs'.  They await 
the next cabinet.  But that does not mean they will necessarily go into 
the new cabinet.  It means that space will open up somewhere.  Adding a 
new cabinet results in a big placement upheaval.  The synthesizer that 
does not get modules moved around is probably one that is not growing.

Richard Brewster
http://www.pugix.com

Ben Stuyts wrote:

> Do you move modules around a lot? Or do they stay in their place  
> after a while? (For example, do you put all VCO's together, what do  
> you do when you add another one?)
>
> Thanks,
> Ben
>

On 3 Sep 2006, at 23:49, John Laudicina wrote:

> I am always shifting things around, everytime I get a
> new module things get shifted  I have yet to come up
> with the perfect set up.

Ok, yeah, I can understand that.

Do you keep patch sheets? There's probably no use in keeping patch  
sheets that mimic the physical layout then.

>  It seems I am always building another cabinet, last
> weekend I built another side wing cabinet and I use
> the stooges rails for all of the MOTM modules,

I just saw that the stooge rails are still available on the  
stoogeindustries.com site. I thought that had come to an end after  
the sad passing of Larry Hendry. But I'm still considering making my  
own, just to use metric thread in stead of 8-32.

> If you have any wood working skills you should build
> your own cabinets, the money you save you can buy more
> MOTM modules.

Good point. :-)

Ben

Hi Richard,

On 4 Sep 2006, at 00:04, Richard Brewster wrote:

> I like to keep similar modules together.  But as I add modules it
> requires moving things around to keep adherence to this principle.   
> If I
> add another VCO, then I make room for it next to the other VCO's.   
> That
> probably means moving something that is not a VCO that was next to the
> VCO's.  That leads to yet another shift.  Musical modules!

Wonderful! I hope to have similar problems one day. :-D

In the booklets accompanying Wendy Carlos' Switched on Bach box set,  
there are a few patch sketches. It is hard to tell if they are just  
schematic, or have any resemblance to the physical position of the  
modules. Schematic is probably the way to go.

Ben

My modular has many different brands of modules,
mostly MOTM, this is what I started with and is my all
time favorite format.  I had a problem trying to keep
all of the VCO's together due to the fact that I have
3 motm and 2 .com's (vco's) the problem is that the
.com dont fit into the MOTM holes so I found it was
easier to make a seperate cabinet for the .com oddball
size instead of putting filler spacers (which I did
for awhile, I made mults out of them).  
The reason I like the modular setup is all of our
modulars are different due to the fact of mixing and
matching  equipment.  I dont think I will ever go the
route of the frac rack, those 1/8" jacks are too
tempramental for my big old hands, let alone my eyes.
I have been making my own panels out of aluminum and
painting them with a gray spray primer and then
painting them with a textured black spray paint that I
get at home depot, it looks pretty close to the MOTM,
not as durable.  My cabinets stay indoors and do not
leave the studio so they are pretty safe.  I would
rather spend my money on modules than on panels and
cabinetry.  My only mistake is I made the width of my
ccabinet only 18 units wide, I wish I made it 28 units
instead.  With the 2 wing cabinets it is now 30 units
wide.  The truth of the matter is I did not realize
that this is a addiction, I think drugs would have
been cheaper.
I enjoy building this monster more than trying to play
it, oh the insanity of it all.

John, I need to get off my ass and make more patch
cords and much longer....





--- Richard Brewster <pugix@...> wrote:

> I like to keep similar modules together.  But as I
> add modules it 
> requires moving things around to keep adherence to
> this principle.  If I 
> add another VCO, then I make room for it next to the
> other VCO's.  That 
> probably means moving something that is not a VCO
> that was next to the 
> VCO's.  That leads to yet another shift.  Musical
> modules!  The last 
> time I played this game, two of them didn't get
> 'chairs'.  They await 
> the next cabinet.  But that does not mean they will
> necessarily go into 
> the new cabinet.  It means that space will open up
> somewhere.  Adding a 
> new cabinet results in a big placement upheaval. 
> The synthesizer that 
> does not get modules moved around is probably one
> that is not growing.
> 
> Richard Brewster
> http://www.pugix.com
> 
> Ben Stuyts wrote:
> > Do you move modules around a lot? Or do they stay
> in their place  
> > after a while? (For example, do you put all VCO's
> together, what do  
> > you do when you add another one?)
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Ben
> >   
> 
> 


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> Square head screws are very popular in my part of the world. 
> One thing I didn't see mentioned on McFeelys website is that 
> you can often jamb a screw onto the screwdriver so that it 
> doesn't fall off. 
> This is incredibly useful when you are trying to insert a 
> screw into a hole at various angles; gravity becomes 
> irrelevant. Try doing that with a philips or a slotted screw head.

Indeed. I've startled people who are unfamiliar with square-drive screws by
inserting a screwdriver into one of the screws in the vertical face of my
modular and letting go of it. It will hang supported only by the head of the
screw, nearly parallel to the floor.

McFeely's screws are to generic philips screws as Bourns sealed
potentiometers are to Radio Shack carbon pots.

--Adam

>Do you move modules around a lot? Or do they stay in their place 
>after a while? (For example, do you put all VCO's together, what do
>you do when you add another one?)

Out of 6 cabinets, I have one cabinet that hasn't changed in two 
years, the rest are always in a state of flux.

>Do you keep patch sheets? There's probably no use in keeping patch
>sheets that mimic the physical layout then.

I keep patch sheets, but they do not resemble the physical layout. 
Mine are hideously ugly, no graphics whatsoever, just a huge table to 
write every pot/switch setting and which jack is plugged into which 
other jack.

On Sep 4, 2006, at 11:40 AM, Scott Juskiw wrote:

>
> I keep patch sheets, but they do not resemble the physical layout.
> Mine are hideously ugly, no graphics whatsoever, just a huge table to
> write every pot/switch setting and which jack is plugged into which
> other jack.
>
>

Me too.  The thought has occurred to me that if I were sufficiently
clever, I could devise an XML schema for these settings and routings.
I could then write a program that would spit out graphical patch sheets
that would match whatever layout I'm using at the time.  But right now,
I'm not motivated enough to be that clever.