MOTM

Hey!!
I miss this forum.
Am I the only one here ALSO using MOTM euro??

Maybe we can give this a kick in The ASS!!!

> From: Ritchie
> Hey!!
> I miss this forum.
> Am I the only one here ALSO using MOTM euro??
> 
> Maybe we can give this a kick in The ASS!!!


Speaking of old guys on the list, or more appropriately, long time members of the list, just yesterday I was thinking of a lot of names that I haven't seen a post from in years either on this list or Analog Heaven. Made me wonder if they're still alive. I was wondering what happened to Andrew Sanchez for instance. Last post 2010 on AH. John Mahoney bought my Deltalab Effectron, seems to have disappeared. Les Mizzell disappeared though I had seen some him post on a couple of other lists, but even there, it's been a while. Carbon111, disappeared into the non existence. Mike Peake, erratic behavior an errant post or two, then no more. Unknown Freak is now Unseen Freak, though I did track down his website and maybe he's just busy scoring TV shows and not dead.

Are these people still alive and just fed up with all the inane banter on these forums?

A lot of people have moved over to Muffwiggler. Peake posts there, although not as over-the-top as years past.

I think the 2008-2009 economic hardship forced many folks to sell off or mothball their gear. And also "life gets in the way"
as this is what happened to me (now raising my 2yr old grandson and having 3 jobs in 2 years).

Paul S.


--- elhardt@... wrote:

From: Kenneth Elhardt <elhardt@...>
To: motm@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [motm] Old guys on this list
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2013 14:16:39 -0700 (PDT)

> From: Ritchie
> Hey!!
> I miss this forum.
> Am I the only one here ALSO using MOTM euro??
> 
> Maybe we can give this a kick in The ASS!!!


Speaking of old guys on the list, or more appropriately, long time members of the list, just yesterday I was thinking of a lot of names that I haven't seen a post from in years either on this list or Analog Heaven. Made me wonder if they're still alive. I was wondering what happened to Andrew Sanchez for instance. Last post 2010 on AH. John Mahoney bought my Deltalab Effectron, seems to have disappeared. Les Mizzell disappeared though I had seen some him post on a couple of other lists, but even there, it's been a while. Carbon111, disappeared into the non existence. Mike Peake, erratic behavior an errant post or two, then no more. Unknown Freak is now Unseen Freak, though I did track down his website and maybe he's just busy scoring TV shows and not dead.

Are these people still alive and just fed up with all the inane banter on these forums?



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

> I guess most goes to Muffs.

Ugh. I've tried, I really have, but sheesh, that place is like MySpace,
Facebook and Yahoo OMG! all combined into one. It's as if you find
yourself in a mega mall when all you really wanted was a little
specialty shop...

On Wed, 5 Jun 2013, Jason Proctor wrote:

> sync-blocking beat out async-nonblocking, sadly.

An empty victory, a rigged game.  Those who are able to understand
the limitations, always seek to move beyond.

--
Monty Brandenberg

Maybe not that bad (have you actually looked on myspace - holy attention deficit 
disorder) but generally I agree with this view.  Alas.

George

----- Original Message ----
From: Doug Wellington <doug@...>
To: motm@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, June 5, 2013 5:24:49 PM
Subject: Re: [motm] Old guys on this list

> I guess most goes to Muffs.

Ugh. I've tried, I really have, but sheesh, that place is like MySpace,
Facebook and Yahoo OMG! all combined into one. It's as if you find
yourself in a mega mall when all you really wanted was a little
specialty shop...

Well, sirs - 

Assuming you mean "old" as in been around this forum for five or so years - and not "old" as in age (ahem) - I'm still here <g> and so is Dad (who qualifies as old no matter how you look at it despite his vehement denial), although he's been in hospital and convalescing these last six months or thereabouts.

We moved last year - everything - studio, home, everything.  Began renovating our place in Massachusetts.  Began troubleshooting our modules - some were damaged in transport.  All of it took 12 months longer than we estimated.  Then Dad got a staff infection.

But soon, we'll be back at it.  We think about you guys all the time.  We've missed you.  And we owe some of you visits and dinners etc.  Haven't forgotten.

Will (Dragonfly Alley et al)



--- In motm@yahoogroups.com, "Ritchie" <ritchiedrums@...> wrote:

>
> Hey!!
> I miss this forum.
> Am I the only one here ALSO using MOTM euro??
> 
> Maybe we can give this a kick in The ASS!!!
>

Wow!

On 5 Jun 2013, at 22:16, Kenneth Elhardt <elhardt@...> wrote:

> > From: Ritchie
> > Hey!!
> > I miss this forum.
> > Am I the only one here ALSO using MOTM euro??
> > 
> > Maybe we can give this a kick in The ASS!!!
> 
> Speaking of old guys on the list, or more appropriately, long time members of the list, just yesterday I was thinking of a lot of names that I haven't seen a post from in years either on this list or Analog Heaven. Made me wonder if they're still alive. I was wondering what happened to Andrew Sanchez for instance. Last post 2010 on AH. John Mahoney bought my Deltalab Effectron, seems to have disappeared. Les Mizzell disappeared though I had seen some him post on a couple of other lists, but even there, it's been a while. Carbon111, disappeared into the non existence. Mike Peake, erratic behavior an errant post or two, then no more. Unknown Freak is now Unseen Freak, though I did track down his website and maybe he's just busy scoring TV shows and not dead.
> 
> Are these people still alive and just fed up with all the inane banter on these forums?
> 
>

From: Doug Wellington
>> Ugh. I've tried, I really have, but sheesh, that place is like MySpace, Facebook and Yahoo OMG! all combined into one. It's as if you find yourself in a mega mall when all you really wanted was a little specialty shop...<<

There are two kinds of forums/lists now. Those that are dying or are dead do to apathy and superficial dialog, and those that are a busy zoo of superficial dialog. Harmony Central, Gearslutz, and so on are all the same that way, but the few times I've ended up in Muffwiggler, it seemed to lower the bar even further, and it seemed like it consisted of nothing but no talent [EDIT BUTTON ON] ***-hoppers, ra**ers, glitchers, *******, ecstacy pop**** - light wand waving - pacifier sucking ravers, ********, and every other form of music hating, ***** producing/consuming destroyers of culture. [EDIT BUTTON OFF] The idea of an intellectually stimulating conversation about synthesis or gear is nil there. Any audio file you click on, your senses are assaulted with ugly [EDIT ON] ***** [EDIT OFF]. All of those forums consist of the blind leading the blind; dumb questions with dumb answers.

That's right, there's your cranky old guy with some edit button usuage. But hey, perhaps 1st, 2nd and 3rd impressions can be wrong and I just ended up in the wrong places there. I'll give it another look and see if there's more than just tweakers and their robo-porn.

Ah, "robo-porn" reminded me of a music reviewer on Guido's site (of Thelonious Moog fame). Guido's website now gone, last post 3 years ago on youtube, so another person who disappeared. That music reviewer is also sick of all the current synth garbage:

"The current revival in analog synthesizers has spawned a lamentable abundance of mechanically repetitive, amelodic, soulless robo-porn tracks that are banal at best and enervating at worst. Thelonious Moog once again treats us to real musicians playing real music by a real composer. Let's hope it starts a trend."

I'm still here lurking! My MOTM system reached fruition quite some time ago,
although I do have some incomplete DIY projects that I pick at from time to
time. Sadly I'm not seeing much conversation on the list lately so I don't
feel the need to chime in...

 

Al

From: motm@yahoogroups.com [mailto:motm@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Ritchie
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2013 10:24 AM
To: motm@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [motm] Old guys on this list

 

  

Hey!!
I miss this forum.
Am I the only one here ALSO using MOTM euro??

Maybe we can give this a kick in The ASS!!!

Somebody has to go *first*! J

 

Paul S.

From: motm@yahoogroups.com [mailto:motm@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Aardvark
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2013 10:02 PM
To: motm@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [motm] Old guys on this list

 






I'm still here lurking! My MOTM system reached fruition quite some time ago,
although I do have some incomplete DIY projects that I pick at from time to
time. Sadly I'm not seeing much conversation on the list lately so I don't
feel the need to chime in...

 

Al

 

From: motm@yahoogroups.com [mailto:motm@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Ritchie
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2013 10:24 AM
To: motm@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [motm] Old guys on this list

 

  

Hey!!
I miss this forum.
Am I the only one here ALSO using MOTM euro??

Maybe we can give this a kick in The ASS!!!

On Jun 5, 2013, at 6:07 PM, Kenneth Elhardt wrote:
> *******, ecstacy pop**** - light wand waving - pacifier sucking ravers, ********, and every other form of music hating, ***** producing/consuming destroyers of culture.

like AH was before the prog rockers showed up?
---
Suit & Tie Guy
suitandtieguy.com
stgsoundlabs.com


Sent from my LG Touchpoint 1100

"My MOTM system reached fruition quite some time ago, although I do have
some incomplete DIY projects that I pick at from time to time. Sadly I'm not
seeing much conversation on the list lately so I don't feel the need to
chime in..."

 

This pretty much says it for me, too. 

 

Ken T

(Bought my first MOTM module in the 90's when there were only three types
available)

> From: Suit & Tie Guy
> Elhardt wrote:
> > *******, ecstacy pop**** - light wand waving - pacifier
> sucking ravers, ********, and every other form of music
> hating, ***** producing/consuming destroyers of culture.
> 
> like AH was before the prog rockers showed up?


Like AH was and still is. Any prog rockers are a tiny fraction. I'd like to see a synth list where people are actually interested in synthesis and composing synth/electronic music and actually have some musical ability and knowledge. Not likely though.

-Elhardt

'evening--

 

Well, it's like the guy on AH who posted a couple years ago that he'd done a
re-creation of part of Tomita's "Firebird" - I sent him an email thanking
him for the posting and complimenting him on his effort, and he wrote back
with something like "You're the only person that commented on it".
Figures.and says a lot about the average AH'er.  I still read the list
anyways.sometimes I don't know why exactly!

 

Cheers,

FrankV

From: motm@yahoogroups.com [mailto:motm@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Kenneth Elhardt
Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2013 5:34 PM
To: MOTM List; Suit & Tie Guy
Subject: Re: [motm] Old guys on this list

 

  

> From: Suit & Tie Guy
> Elhardt wrote:
> > *******, ecstacy pop**** - light wand waving - pacifier
> sucking ravers, ********, and every other form of music
> hating, ***** producing/consuming destroyers of culture.
> 
> like AH was before the prog rockers showed up?

Like AH was and still is. Any prog rockers are a tiny fraction. I'd like to
see a synth list where people are actually interested in synthesis and
composing synth/electronic music and actually have some musical ability and
knowledge. Not likely though.

-Elhardt

>>>"That was me that did the Tomita Firebird re-creation. . nobody cares to
listen to stuff so far out on the fringes. It's a bit disappointing"

 

I would love to hear! I just don't frequent those sites.

 

KT

I decided Paul's herd of cats is big enough, so I went and made other 
modules in my road map and sell them directly.  Assembled or bare board 
w/build doc.  Kitting, that is preparing all the parts for a kit,  is a 
*real* time-killer, so I don't do kits.  I find most DIY types have 
their own stock of parts anyway.  I offer .fpd files for panels which 
can be used to get expensive-but-high-quality panels from Schaeffer/FPE 
or export to .dxf and have you favorite metal shop or home-brew panel 
system.  I am going to try a 3D-printed panel, for example.  Mianly for 
prototyping but given the color variety of the plastic filament stock, 
and multicolor printing of say the Makerbot Replicator, who knows?

   Anyway, I've mentioned my stuff elsewhere as while in the MOTM form 
factor, this is Paul's ml and I would feel odd advertising my stuff here. ;)

   Worthy of note: I am making the M480 MkII using the V2164.  Just 
waiting for boards to come back from oshpark.

Crow
http://www.cs80.com/
/**/

Anybody can advertise any MOTM stuff here. Anytime.

Just don't put a FS for your AN1X.

Paul S.

-----Original Message-----
From: motm@yahoogroups.com [mailto:motm@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of The
Old Crow
Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2013 9:47 PM
To: motm@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [motm] Old guys on this list


   I decided Paul's herd of cats is big enough, so I went and made other
modules in my road map and sell them directly.  Assembled or bare board
w/build doc.  Kitting, that is preparing all the parts for a kit,  is a
*real* time-killer, so I don't do kits.  I find most DIY types have their
own stock of parts anyway.  I offer .fpd files for panels which can be used
to get expensive-but-high-quality panels from Schaeffer/FPE or export to
.dxf and have you favorite metal shop or home-brew panel system.  I am going
to try a 3D-printed panel, for example.  Mianly for prototyping but given
the color variety of the plastic filament stock, and multicolor printing of
say the Makerbot Replicator, who knows?

   Anyway, I've mentioned my stuff elsewhere as while in the MOTM form
factor, this is Paul's ml and I would feel odd advertising my stuff here. ;)

   Worthy of note: I am making the M480 MkII using the V2164.  Just waiting
for boards to come back from oshpark.

Crow
http://www.cs80.com/
/**/



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

From: Frank Vanaman
>>‘evening-- 
Well, it’s like the guy on AH who posted a couple years ago
that he’d done a re-creation of part of Tomita’s “Firebird”
– I sent him an email thanking him for the posting and complimenting him
on his effort, and he wrote back with something like “You’re the
only person that commented on it”. Figures…and says a lot about the
average AH’er.  I still read the list anyways…sometimes I don’t
know why exactly!<<


'morning--- Frank,

I see Andrew commented about that, but way back then he emailed me personally with a link to his Firebird re-creation, and I complimented him on it as being one of the most impressive things I've heard someone do on a modular on these lists. Every once in a while when I run across it on my hard drive I'll play it, and it's so close to sounding like Tomita, like I told him, if I were walking through a room with it playing in the background, I might have thought it was Tomita's actual recording. But that also shows the problem with the level of most people on these lists; you put something of quality and skill in front of them it's like putting calculus in front of a monkey. They have no concept of musicianship, skill, effort, or even who the hell Tomita is. It's that whole destroyers of culture thing I mentioned earlier. The death of synthesis and electronic music.

BTW Frank, speaking of something impressive, the guy's Orchestral performance on a Yamaha Stagea organ at the link below is probably the most impressive I've seen to date.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1kxwTHfOYM

-Elhardt

'morning-

 

Ah, there it is again! Thanks for sharing [again]! Still like it quite a
bit!   J

 

Cheers,

FrankV

From: motm@yahoogroups.com [mailto:motm@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of A S
Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2013 10:18 PM
To: MOTM List
Subject: Re: [motm] Old guys on this list

 

  

 Hi Ken,
 Thanks for asking! To give some background, I used both my modular (mostly
MOTM at that time), and a Korg PCI sound card. The choir sound and strings
(both heavily-edited) are the Oasys PCI. All other sounds are from the
modular. I hope you enjoy it:

https://sites.google.com/site/synthasaurus/Firebird_Intro.mp3

 Andrew

 

On Thu, Jun 6, 2013 at 8:04 PM, Ken Tkacs <kentkacs@...> wrote:

  

 

>>>"That was me that did the Tomita Firebird re-creation. . nobody cares to
listen to stuff so far out on the fringes. It's a bit disappointing"

 

I would love to hear! I just don't frequent those sites.

 

KT

I hadn't planned on chiming in on the topic, but had to comment after 
viewing the link below.

After playing "keyboard stuff" for 55 years as well as attending 
countless concerts over that time, I've never seen/heard anything like this.

Thanks for posting it Ken.

Scott E.

On 6/7/2013 1:45 AM, Kenneth Elhardt wrote:
>
> <edit>
>
> BTW Frank, speaking of something impressive, the guy's Orchestral 
> performance on a Yamaha Stagea organ at the link below is probably the 
> most impressive I've seen to date.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1kxwTHfOYM
>
> -Elhardt
>
>

I suppose I'm an old guy in that I started my MOTM system around 10 years
ago, and have been on the list most of the time since then. My system is
constructed almost entirely from MOTM kits, with a few Oakley modules and a
couple of modules from other companies adapted to MOTM format. Some years
back my system reached a size at which it was big enough to do pretty much
anything that I want a modular synth to do, and I shifted from mostly
building the system to mostly using it. Occasionally I make modules from
scratch. The most recent of which was a quad clock divider; each of the four
dividers has independent divisors from 2 to 16, reset inputs, and three
different output modes.

I agree with the Suit & Tie Guy that the somewhat fanatical devotion to
exactly reproducing the Synthesis Technology look and feel exhibited by some
members of the MOTM-using community has stifled the growth of the market.
This slavish adoration of silkscreen-on-speckle-paint panels has always
puzzled me, for several reasons: 1) it's the sound that counts in the end!
Visual esthetics are very important, but they have zero effect on the
signals behind the panels. Your audience doesn't hear your panel font. 2)
The MOTM products themselves are full of inconsistencies. In my system I can
count at least three different distinct versions of dial markings. Some
modules have labels above the jacks, some have them below. 3) There isn't
necessarily a consensus that the MOTM quasi-standard is a good one. This
mailing list itself has seen more than one debate about panel appearance.
For instance, old-timers will recall people complaining that one module
isn't visually differentiated from the next, and putting strips of tape on
their modules to divide them.

Given all that, what's an aspiring MOTM module maker to do? Doing a small
run of panels that exactly match the MOTM convention is expensive and
approaching impossible because of the lack of metal shops in this country
that will still do speckle painting. On the other hand, doing a small run of
panels by some other process (e.g. anodizing and in-filled engraving) runs
the risk of being rejected by the market because it doesn't match the
convention (overlooking the fact that the convention is not self-consistent
to begin with). On the other side of the fence, the Eurorack community
seemingly has accepted a diversity of panel appearances, knob styles, etc.
Whether or not this diversity jibes with your personal taste is obviously a
personal choice, but it does contribute to a growing marketplace and hence
growing community. It's far easier for a manufacturer to enter a market
where diversity and originality are embraced rather than shunned.

So while it saddens me to hear from the Suit & Tie Guy that one of the very
few attempts for a new vendor of MOTM modules to enter the field was
discouraged by some members of the MOTM customer base itself, it doesn't
surprise me in the slightest. 

And yes, the previous discourse is the result of both personal and
professional cogitation on the topic.

--Adam

I agree with the Suit & Tie Guy that the somewhat fanatical devotion to
exactly reproducing the Synthesis Technology look and feel exhibited by some
members of the MOTM-using community has stifled the growth of the market.

It's a double-edged sword.

a) The pots/jacks were 'on grid' for a very *specific reason*: people
complained that there was too much front panel wiring on prior kits, and it
was the #1 source of errors. Also, there were NO vertical mounted pots like
the P260T I use now in Euro. Third: I wanted a consistent 'build experience'
module-to-module, with common hardware and brackets.

I think I succeeded quite well in this regard. 

This slavish adoration of silkscreen-on-speckle-paint panels has always
puzzled me, for several reasons:

b) Me, too. I think the text on the powder coating "pops" more (easier to
read). But it seems some folks are just very particular about 'the synth as
fine furniture' thing.

Favorite: one person complained that all the jack nuts were not exactly
lined up as in the renders. So he told me he spent *hours* trying to line
them all up.

 1) it's the sound that counts in the end!

c) Correct, but that is not a major factor to some people. Trust me: I had
at least 6 heated discussions about the font. This would be the same font as
Moog used (and I should know, Bob & I talked about it at length. It
originated from Chart-Pak rub-on lettering)

 2) The MOTM products themselves are full of inconsistencies. In my system I
can count at least three different distinct versions of dial markings. Some
modules have labels above the jacks, some have them below.

d) I suck at panel design. Suck, I say! Now I use an outside person from
Euro and he does a great job.

 3) There isn't necessarily a consensus that the MOTM quasi-standard is a
good one. This mailing list itself has seen more than one debate about panel
appearance.
For instance, old-timers will recall people complaining that one module
isn't visually differentiated from the next, and putting strips of tape on
their modules to divide them.

e) I *purposely* did not want to look like a Moog modular in that regard. I
feel that is a specific "design embellishment" unique to Moog (and wish it
would have stayed that way....sigh....)

Given all that, what's an aspiring MOTM module maker to do? Doing a small
run of panels that exactly match the MOTM convention is expensive and
approaching impossible because of the lack of metal shops in this country
that will still do speckle painting. On the other hand, doing a small run of
panels by some other process (e.g. anodizing and in-filled engraving) runs
the risk of being rejected by the market because it doesn't match the
convention (overlooking the fact that the convention is not self-consistent
to begin with). On the other side of the fence, the Eurorack community
seemingly has accepted a diversity of panel appearances, knob styles, etc.

f) To misquote Hamlet: "Therein lies the rub."

Whether or not this diversity jibes with your personal taste is obviously a
personal choice, but it does contribute to a growing marketplace and hence
growing community. It's far easier for a manufacturer to enter a market
where diversity and originality are embraced rather than shunned.

So while it saddens me to hear from the Suit & Tie Guy that one of the very
few attempts for a new vendor of MOTM modules to enter the field was
discouraged by some members of the MOTM customer base itself, it doesn't
surprise me in the slightest. 

g) After the great RoHS debacle, at least 2 GOOD things emerged that solve
these issues

1 -- vertical Switchcraft jacks (first used on the MOTM-730/newer MOTM-910)
2 -- vertical P260T BI pots, so that makes all the modules 1" deep (so, yes
a MOTM skiff is possible), eliminated the pcb bracket AND allows the pots
'to be anywhere' on the panel.

The jacks WILL remain at the bottom......sorry.

And yes, the previous discourse is the result of both personal and
professional cogitation on the topic.

At least this is getting people to post. Some of which I haven't heard from
in years.

Paul S.





------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

On 6/7/2013 3:34 PM, Paul Schreiber wrote:
> exactly reproducing the Synthesis Technology look
>
>
   For me, speaking as a manufacturer, I committed to this "look" not so 
much in terms of the actual appearance but for manufacturing 
efficiency.  Once you choose the tooling for a production process, you 
tend to stick with it, mainly because re-tooling is expensive in terms 
of re-engineering all the hard points (jack to jack spacing, no. of pots 
in a line, etc.)  This is why we have standards like MU, 5U frac and 
Euro: because they all adhere, more or less, to common design methodologies.

   Recently, someone admonished me for not wanting to customize the 
front panel for a module, saying something like "cmon, its *2013*!" 
Well, no matter what year it is, manufacturing efficiency is still the 
top priority for someone who is making more than one or two of a given 
module.  Consider: it is fun to built the first one.  The 100th of the 
same module? Not so fun.  So, you take whatever steps you can to make 
the assembly of many of a given module as efficient and un-tedious as 
possible.  This is why I make jack boards and pot boards even if the 
cost of the extra parts offsets the cost savings in man-hours: it still 
*saves time* and that is the one commodity I do not has as much of as I 
once did.

   The same is true for the two, soon to be four, module series I 
currently sell.  I made the VCO153 (Yamaha IG00153 VCO chip in 
non-custom form with IG00158 waveshaper also in non-custom form 
attached) in SMT because I have an SMT assembly line, and after the 
soul-crushing drudgery of loading the feeders for the pick and place 
machine, you can assemble 25 boards in about an hour.  Once the paste 
printer stencil is aligned and the feeders are loaded, and the reflow 
oven's zones are all at operating temperature, the actual build process 
takes about 2.5 minutes per board.  Thus you try to get as many boards 
through the line as you can before you have to reload for a different 
product.  (This is also why we try to design around a basis of common 
SMT parts--we *hate* loading the deck feeders with parts reels--it takes 
as much time as the assembly run!)

   I took a different path with the GX1BPF: the boards are all 
through-hole, and I hired an assembly house build them from my 
construction notes and a provided assembled sample.  That cost me $500 
(for 25) but that is 50 hours of my time not spent assembling boards.  
Especially the same board over and over.  Why through-hole?  The BPF is 
the older design from my spree of module engineering back in 2003-4.  I 
built exactly three back then: Robert Rich and Lester Barnes have one 
each, and I have the 3rd prototype. The VCO, while prototyped at that 
time, was never fully tooled for production until late 2011.  By that 
time I had my SMT assembly line, and The VCO got the SMT approach.  The 
BPF will eventually--I've already made the board layout--but not until 
these BPFs I have on hand sell out.  Or down to less than 5 units.

   Panels are another thing: good ones aren't cheap.  The VCO153 uses a 
Schaeffer/FPE black anodized, engraved with paint-fill panel that looks 
very nice, but costs me $40.  In quantity.  The GX1BPF uses 3mm epoxy 
spray-painted aluminium stock with a traditional silkscreen.  It looks 
decent, but not as good as the FPE or Paul's panels.  But these were $17 
each.  You take what you can get when the getting is good, which is why 
the modules sport different panel types.  The point here is that 
changing the tooling for panels where the non-refundable engineering 
costs are per revision greatly affect the cost of the panel. The $125 
NRE charge for the GX1BPF panel (for example) would need to be applied 
again, and all of a sudden the $17/panel has become $22/panel.

   In any case, while I am open to evolving the form factor of a module 
family, it has to occur along lines that are friendly to the 
manufacturer.  There needs to exist a comfortable medium between "module 
as art" and "module is manufacturable without driving the manufacturer 
stark raving mad."

   Even while I to stick to this design paradigm, I still try to be 
accommodating.  I offer cabling pads for direct-wired pots and jacks in 
addition to my jack & pot board headers.  In the case of the upcoming 
MOTM-480 Mark II (CA3280s gone, V2164s now used) I will have 
user-configurable jumpers and extra filter stage outputs to allow a full 
split filter configuration without the need to cut traces or solder 
directly to parts leads.  The board will allow the use of a 3-pot 
bracket as well as a 4-pot bracket, without the need for the steel 
stud-mounted plate Paul uses. (I like that plate, I just don't like 
having to get PEM bolts mounted into panels. ;)

   This is pretty much the stance I work from, and while I try to evolve 
things along their logical path, at the end of the day the devices still 
need to be efficient to manufacture.

Crow
/**/

>>https://sites.google.com/site/synthasaurus/Firebird_Intro.mp3

 This is VERY nice! It's just different enough from Tomita's that it has a
fresh sound that really rekindled the experience of hearing Tomita's for the
first time so many years ago! I was heartbroken when the clip ended!

Ken

From: Ken Tkacs
>>This is VERY nice! It’s just different enough from Tomita’s that it has a fresh sound that really rekindled the experience of hearing Tomita’s for the first time so many years ago! I was heartbroken when the clip ended!<<

It's very similar sounding in general. A little bit thicker sounding in places, maybe the phase shifter doesn't quite sound the same, some timbres slightly different, and things like that, as would be expected. Yet there are a few places, most notably a part that starts at 2:14, that's such a dead ringer for Tomita that I can't tell the difference off hand. Andrew stopped just as the piece gets into the fast part, which would be more a lot more challenging to play, especially without the written score, which he didn't use.

I have a book of the piano version of the Firebird, but decided just now to check a website that has almost any classical score for download that you could ever want, and they too have a piano version in addition to the full orchestral version. It can be downloaded from the link below under the tab "Arrangements and Transcriptions (1)". It's a website anybody who can read music should know about.

http://imslp.org/wiki/The_Firebird_(Stravinsky,_Igor)

That imslp website is absolutely mind blowing!  A virtual paradise of sheet music bliss.  I remember visiting Patelson's Music House by Carnegie Hall to browse their endless collections.  Of course, it's closed now:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/13/arts/music/13pate.html?_r=0

But this imslp site is like owning everything in the store - freely accessible anywhere, anytime.  How things change.  According to the Times article, Kurt Masur was a patron of Patelson's.  By coincidence, I own his old piano, a Bluthner from the turn of the last century.  Analog indeed.

Sincere thanks from another old guy on the list,
Roger

--- In motm@yahoogroups.com, Kenneth Elhardt <elhardt@...> wrote:

>
> I have a book of the piano version of the Firebird, but decided just now to check a website that has almost any classical score for download that you could ever want, and they too have a piano version in addition to the full orchestral version. It can be downloaded from the link below under the tab "Arrangements and Transcriptions (1)". It's a website anybody who can read music should know about.
> 
> http://imslp.org/wiki/The_Firebird_(Stravinsky,_Igor)
>

Having a clear out and I have a number of the Oakley 820 upgrade PCB’s
http://www.oakleysound.com/oms-820.htm
free to anyone who wants one 

just send me an email

cheers 

Paul

AKA Krisp1

Heh.  Well, as a long time user of the site... it has its weaknesses.  I've found mistakes on Brahms scores because the edition scanned was an old, unauthorized copy and if you need a specific edition of a Bruckner symphony... well, good luck!  :)
 
But for most purposes it works very well.  Caveat (non-)emptor!  
 
cheers,
eric

From: rogerpellegrini <rogerpellegrini@...>
>To: motm@yahoogroups.com 
>Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 10:25 AM
>Subject: [motm] Re: Old guys on this list
>
>  
>That imslp website is absolutely mind blowing! A virtual paradise of sheet music bliss. I remember visiting Patelson's Music House by Carnegie Hall to browse their endless collections. Of course, it's closed now:
>
>http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/13/arts/music/13pate.html?_r=0
>
>But this imslp site is like owning everything in the store - freely accessible anywhere, anytime. How things change. According to the Times article, Kurt Masur was a patron of Patelson's. By coincidence, I own his old piano, a Bluthner from the turn of the last century. Analog indeed.
>
>Sincere thanks from another old guy on the list,
>Roger
>
>--- In mailto:motm%40yahoogroups.com, Kenneth Elhardt <elhardt@...> wrote:
>>
>> I have a book of the piano version of the Firebird, but decided just now to check a website that has almost any classical score for download that you could ever want, and they too have a piano version in addition to the full orchestral version. It can be downloaded from the link below under the tab "Arrangements and Transcriptions (1)". It's a website anybody who can read music should know about.
>> 
>> http://imslp.org/wiki/The_Firebird_(Stravinsky,_Igor)
>>
>
>
>

From: rogerpellegrini
>>That imslp website is absolutely mind blowing!  A virtual paradise of sheet music bliss.  I remember visiting Patelson's Music House by Carnegie Hall to browse their endless collections.  Of course, it's closed now:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/13/arts/music/13pate.html?_r=0<<

That article makes it sound like the closing of that store was do to online sales. I wonder how true that is. I've been seeing stores that sell music scores disappearing for years. In the 1980's I used to make periodic trips into the bowels of Los Angeles to Carl Fischer, the biggest store in all of LA. Then one day I drove all the way out there only to find they disappeared. And that was way before the internet. Just two days ago I learned that Barrage Music in Raleigh closed down in April. 57 years in business and the largest out here, in fact about the only place out here to buy sheet music. The internet is the only way for me to get music scores now. I think a lot of this has to do with the continued decrease in musicianship and most musicians these days not able to even read music.


From: Eric
>>Heh.  Well, as a long time user of the site... it has its weaknesses. I've found mistakes on Brahms scores because the edition scanned was an old, unauthorized copy and if you need a specific edition of a Bruckner symphony... well, good luck!  :) But for most purposes it works very well.<<

I've found mistakes in music books I've bought. But online, sometimes you can find more than one edition. There are some other similar sites out there, though not a large, they might provide other alternate editions.

The only thing I have't been able to find is the complete Monteverdi 1610 Vespers. What W. Carlos did with Monteverdi's Orfeo, by selecting the best short movements from it and putting them together in a small suite and beautifully synthesize and perform them, I'd like to do similar with his 1610 Vespers or "Vespro della Beata Vergine 1610" to be accurate. Guess I'll just making periodic visits and maybe it will appear one day.

-Elhardt