MOTM

Basic additive, yes, but not FM unless they are through-zero and modulating
each other.

When I originally started this thread, musing about messing with the
frequency of partials, I wasn't even thinking exclusively on the signal
*generating* end. I was just pondering the dearth of *modifiers* that
affected the frequency of harmonics; it had hit me that most modifying
modules act on amplitude in various ways rather than frequency. I guess it's
natural since as soon as you start talking frequency, you're stepping into
the time domain. But I was wondering if there wasn't something like a Ring
Modulator or filter that could move *existing* partials around in some way.

With the Ring Modulator, a concept that comes to us from radio, we have the
multiplication of two signals which creates the upper and lower sidebands,
and a Frequency (not 'pitch,' I say again!) Shifter does the same thing but
only passing the upper sideband.

I guess I was just singing "Is That All There Is?" to affecting the
placement of partials along the frequency axis. Is there nothing new under
the sun in this area? No creative way to "schmoosh" partials around? (Sorry
about the technical jargon there.) Who knows, maybe if there was it would
end up sounding like a Ring Modulator anyway.

But still, in the traditional thinking of analog synthesis, you have your
VCOs to make harmonic sounds. When you want "sound effects" you use your
white noise, and when you want metallic sounds, you use a ring modulator.
Considering that 99% of the sounds in the universe are not strictly
harmonic, and that the complex attack portions of even natural harmonic
sounds have non-harmonic complexity in them, it seems like there should be
more tools in this area. And there aren't many.

You know, even when you're doing gongs and bells, the ring modulator has a
very recognizable sound. It's not bad, but there ought to be a way to make
even metallic sounds a different way. I guess... [shrugging] _additive_,
right? An additive synth oscillator has long been discussed in EM circles...
if it ends up being as expensive as an equal number of VCOs then why bother.

It sure would be cool to have a "parametric oscillator" though, where the
partials could be specified and modulated in real time. This probably drifts
into the digital domain.

 -----Original Message-----
From: 	revtor@... [mailto:revtor@...] 
Sent:	Tuesday, 21 March, 2000 12:47 PM
To:	motm@onelist.com
Subject:	[motm] Modules for pushing partials around




MOTM'ers
how about a module that is 6 or so very simple sine generators, with a cv in

on each for lfo's or env generators, and of course a master freq knob for 
each sine.  Sum all of these at one output and there you go.
maybe even have a few onboard simple lfo's or a/r env. generators
wouldn't this be considered basic FM?
or basic additive?
I posted this idea a month or so ago..   I still think it would be cool   
feasible?
~Steve

In a message dated 00-03-21 12:47:53 EST, you write:

<< I still think it would be cool   
 feasible? >>



steve,
cool, yes........feasible........well.........maybe. the technology is in 
place much better than in years gone by ( there were several non-commercial 
devices using this idea and at least buchla, and maybe others i`ve forgotten 
or missed, did too ). its more a matter of "concept space". you would 
probably be better served by having the separate modules and patching this 
idea up as needed. more overall versatility, IMHO. at least nowadays.
best,
dave v.

In a message dated 00-03-21 13:02:13 EST, you write:

<< 
 It sure would be cool to have a "parametric oscillator" though, where the
 partials could be specified and modulated in real time. This probably drifts
 into the digital domain.
  >>


ken,
yeah, this would probably be most readily accomplished with a digital gizmo 
or synthesis program.  the closest analog equivelent that springs to mind 
would be using an "overclocked" vco to drive a sequencer to produce a complex 
stepped wave that could then be slewed / filtered as needed. 
i agree that some "new" devices would be interesting beyond the rm / freq. 
shifter ! don`t know what might be possible or practical however.
re : gongs - i always seem to get better sounds using fm, even limited 
non-through zero, than with rm`s. might just be my ears though. i do like the 
rm for its ability to create very dissonant metallic type sounds, etc..
best,
dave v.