MOTM

In a message dated 3/23/2000 9:34:44 PM, revtor@... writes:

<< Any comments on any nice sounding spring reverbs out  there?... I hate to 
start this debate here but whould the (analog modular) sound be any  better 
through a tube amp as opposed to ...  un tube (transistor) amp? >>

Try finding a Mastermix (was that the name?  MasterRoom?) spring reverb on 
eBay.  They were great sounding.  Klark Teknik had a nice one too.  Either 
should be pretty cheap these days.

I like tubes to warm things up sometimes.... other times I like things VERY 
sterile.  I have a few Tubeworks pedals; they also make some rackmount units. 
 Nice for everything from a touch of warmth to full-tilt grinding distortion. 
 Tube amps are nice but can be very expensive for wide-bandwidth reproduction 
at high levels.

Ivan

> From: revtor@...
> Has anyone built Paias hotspring reverb?  

I built it.  It is an interesting piece if you like spring reverbs.  I
built mine behind a 1U rack face plate.  However, I turned it on last week
and it has quit working.  I'll dig into it AFTER the AHMW gathering

As the nature of a spring tank, you lose most of the higher frequencies. 
It is a nice break from digital 'verbs for some variety.

Larry Hendry

>>Try finding a Mastermix (was that the name?  MasterRoom?) spring reverb on 
 eBay.  They were great sounding.  Klark Teknik had a nice one too.  Either 
 should be pretty cheap these days.<<

Actually it is Micmix that makes the MasterRoom reverbs.  I have a couple of 
MasterRoom and Furman reverbs.  Both sound good for spring reverb units, as 
long as you keep them away from other electronic equipment, as they tend to 
pick up or generate a lot of hum quite easily.

-Elhardt

I built two channels of Paia's Hot Springs behind a 1u panel when it first
came out. At the time, I was very impressed with it. Although, once
reasonably-priced digital reverbs hit the market, I put it in the closet and
never went back to it.

Now that I'm building a monster modular, however, I find myself really
wanting that spring reverb sound in my arsenal. I'm planning on hauling it
out, and if it still works, making an MOTM-style panel for it and mounting
the four tanks in an enclosure on the floor somewhere (I doubt I could make
them fit in a cabinet behind the modules, and they'd probably pick up hum or
something anyway. I'll have to build some kind of mixer for the wet/dry
effect control, because the HS was designed to run off a board.

Spring reverbs, even great ones, don't replace the better digital reverbs,
but it is a unique sound that I'd like to continue to have access to.

>Spring reverbs, even great ones, don't replace the better digital
reverbs,
but it is a unique sound that I'd like to continue to have access to.

I agree. I've managed to get my ex-Fender one in the base pan of my
mixing desk. Because of the slope on the panel, it is usually possible
to squeeze quite a lot of gear in there in the older desks.

Sounds great on Moogy synth solos... even better on guitars.

Regards,

Tony Allgood  Penrith, Cumbria, UK

TB303 clone and Filter Rack

http://www.techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk/projects.htm

I really like the Furman RV-2 (stereo as opposed to RV-1 mono) I have.
Limiter, EQ, great sound; you can use it subtly or extremely to great
effect.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: elhardt@... [mailto:elhardt@...]
> Sent: Friday, March 24, 2000 2:23 AM
> To: motm@onelist.com
> Subject: Re: [motm] Spring reverb and amps
>
>
> From: elhardt@...
>
> >>Try finding a Mastermix (was that the name?  MasterRoom?)
> spring reverb on
>  eBay.  They were great sounding.  Klark Teknik had a nice one
> too.  Either
>  should be pretty cheap these days.<<
>
> Actually it is Micmix that makes the MasterRoom reverbs.  I have
> a couple of
> MasterRoom and Furman reverbs.  Both sound good for spring reverb
> units, as
> long as you keep them away from other electronic equipment, as
> they tend to
> pick up or generate a lot of hum quite easily.
>
> -Elhardt
>
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In a message dated 3/23/2000 7:34:58 PM, revtor@... writes:

>Has anyone built Paias 
>hotspring reverb?  Any comments on any nice sounding spring reverbs out
>there?  Ive also heard that a spring reverb shouldn't be solidly mounted
>but 
>suspended so the feedback stays undercontrol.  This makes sense, has anyone
>played with this, ala old fender amps?  

Yes! I have two (for stereo) of the old Hot Springs kits behind a 1U rack 
panel. Because of the wacky phase reversal stuff going on, there actually is 
a fair amount of high end info present at the output (compared to say the 
2600 or most spring reverbs -- so this may not be what you're looking for if 
you want a classic guitar style reverb sound). I like the sound of them 
(bought them over 10 years ago when digital was not really an affordable 
option) but they might be kind of expensive comparatively at this time. I 
also like that cheesy old effect of physically hitting the case that holds 
the cans for that train wreck kind of sound.

I've never had problems with reverbs going into feedback in either guitar 
amps or the Hot Springs -- and believe me, I've tried! There was an 
interesting thread on the diy list some months back about electronic feedback 
(and the resultant chaotic effects) with certain modules. I believe it was 
Grant Richter who mentioned getting some wild sounds by plugging a reverb 
output back into its input (??!!!!!!) I haven't tried this, and I'd be very 
careful if I was to do some experiments like this. I think the idea of 
physically isolating the can from the amp cabinet or mixing desks has more to 
do with the physical transmission of vibrations (from the usual bumping and 
grinding that can happen on a stage or in a studio).

>Oh yeah   
>I hate to start this debate here but whould the (analog modular) sound
>be any 
>better through a tube amp as opposed to ...  un tube (transistor) amp?
>later

I won't enter into the tube/transistor debate (which do you like more) but 
the was also a thread (same diy list) about playing synths through musical 
instrument amplifiers and home stereo equipment. Since amplifiers (guitar 
specifically) are often known for particular "sounds," this could be another 
area of timbre experimentation -- especially if one were interested in 
getting particular guitar lead type sounds from a synth. Me? I just use an 
old (80s) receiver with all the loudness and tone as flat as I can get it, 
through some of those cheap Tannoy mini monitors -- which sound quite good 
for their size.

JB

In one of my tracks from a couple of years ago, "sickbug," I use a reverse
reverb from the cheap-o Zoom 1201 and feed it back into the input. The
result sounds like seraphim singing--very eerie (it's on my site--you can
hear the effect most clearly at the beginning and end of the track). Of
course, this is digital, and feedback probably behaves differently than in
analog (anyone have an analog reverse feedback module? :)), but I thought
the effect was fantastic.

I've been considering rerecording that track... hmmm...

David.

> (and the resultant chaotic effects) with certain modules. I
> believe it was
> Grant Richter who mentioned getting some wild sounds by plugging a reverb
> output back into its input (??!!!!!!) I haven't tried this, and
> I'd be very
> careful if I was to do some experiments like this. I think the idea of

Well, here's a mid-way perspective.  My Yamaha A3000 sampler has a reverb
effect called "Grand Canyon".  I can't think of any instrument being played
in the grand canyon.  Well, maybe a harmonica, or 6-string acoustic slide
guitar.  And a wolf.  Definately a wolf.  Or coyote.  But not too many
pianos, or drums, or anything else.  Would I use it for anything other than
a harmonica?  Hell yes!

Since we're artificially creating sounds of all types, why not use
artificial ambiances of all types?  And when I say artificial, I'm talking
about the process, not just the result-- articial is electric, "real" is
mechanical.

--PBr, pbr, pbr, br, br, r, r, r...

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	David Bivins [SMTP:dbivins@...]
> Sent:	Tuesday, March 28, 2000 5:39 PM
> To:	motm@onelist.com
> Subject:	RE: [motm] Spring reverb and amps
> 
> Funny--I've been thinking more and more that it's kind of hilarious to use
> a
> good digital reverb (i.e. one that emulates a "real" space) on sounds that
> don't occur naturally in an acoustic space (don't nit-pick me)--know what
> I
> mean? For example, medium hall reverb on guitar, bass and drums makes
> sense--you get the illusion of a group playing in a certain space. But in
> what space is a modular playing? Mind you, I'm talking about synth-only
> stuff, not synth stuff in the context of a rock or jazz or orchestral
> group.
>

David Bivins wrote:

Ken "Hot Springs" Tkacs:
> Spring reverbs, even great ones, don't replace the better digital reverbs,
> but it is a unique sound that I'd like to continue to have access to.

Funny--I've been thinking more and more that it's kind of hilarious to use a
good digital reverb (i.e. one that emulates a "real" space) on sounds that
don't occur naturally in an acoustic space (don't nit-pick me)--know what I
mean? For example, medium hall reverb on guitar, bass and drums makes
sense--you get the illusion of a group playing in a certain space. But in
what space is a modular playing? Mind you, I'm talking about synth-only
stuff, not synth stuff in the context of a rock or jazz or orchestral group.

So I've been using the hell out of my Furman RV-2 with the MOTM stuff. I
love it. Has anyone used one of these old, consumer hi-fi spring reverbs
with their synths? I have three here at work that I haven't brought home yet
(three of us are temporarily using them as monitor stands!); I put CD audio
through one of them and was pleasantly surprised... Just curious to know
before I schlepp one home.

David.

> From: "Brousseau, Paul E (Paul)" <noise@...>
>
> Well, here's a mid-way perspective.  My Yamaha A3000 sampler has a reverb
> effect called "Grand Canyon".  I can't think of any instrument
> being played
> in the grand canyon.  Well, maybe a harmonica, or 6-string acoustic slide
> guitar.  And a wolf.  Definately a wolf.  Or coyote.  But not too many
> pianos, or drums, or anything else.  Would I use it for anything
> other than
> a harmonica?  Hell yes!

Well, you got me there ;)

> Since we're artificially creating sounds of all types, why not use
> artificial ambiances of all types?  And when I say artificial, I'm talking
> about the process, not just the result-- articial is electric, "real" is
> mechanical.

I wasn't criticizing reverbs, and I agree that digital reverbs are
artificial by their nature. What I was trying to communicate is that I think
using a reverb that is intended to sound like an acoustic space with purely
synthetic sounds is very strange and amusing. That's all. I know it can be
useful for some people, and I certainly do it/have done it myself. It's just
funny to me.

David.

In a message dated 3/29/2000 8:42:45 AM, dbivins@... writes:

>What I was trying to communicate is that I think
>using a reverb that is intended to sound like an acoustic space with purely
>synthetic sounds is very strange and amusing.

Of course all sound is experienced in some sort of acoustic space and it's 
great to live in a time where we can manipulate that space. I often (usually) 
vastly different reverb types on different "instruments" in the same mix in 
order to distort the preconceptions one might have of any particular acoustic 
space (e.g., a quiet distant object in a large reverberant room accompanied 
by an equal volume loud close object in a small dead room). I know it's not 
terribly novel, but still it's fun.

I also wanted to add that, while the Hot Springs kits are not that cheap 
(aren't they over $50 for one channel?) there is a simple alternative. Buy a 
couple of reverb cans (maybe $20 each) and drive them with a headphone amp 
(maybe you've got an unused one on a mixer somewhere), take the output from 
the cans to the "spare" mic inputs that we all have (yeah, that's the 
"expensive" part unless you have unused mic inputs at the moment).

JB

What's a reverb can?

--PBr

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	jwbarlow@... [SMTP:jwbarlow@...]
> Sent:	Wednesday, March 29, 2000 7:40 PM
> To:	motm@onelist.com
> Subject:	Re: [motm] Spring reverb and amps
> 
> I also wanted to add that, while the Hot Springs kits are not that cheap 
> (aren't they over $50 for one channel?) there is a simple alternative. Buy
> a 
> couple of reverb cans (maybe $20 each) and drive them with a headphone amp
> 
> (maybe you've got an unused one on a mixer somewhere), take the output
> from 
> the cans to the "spare" mic inputs that we all have (yeah, that's the 
> "expensive" part unless you have unused mic inputs at the moment).
>

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=296175259

Tube sound and reverb all in one; a fixer-upper.

Ivan

In a message dated 3/30/2000 12:37:24 PM, noise@... writes:

>What's a reverb can?

It's where the reverb happens. A metal enclosure with the springs and 
transducers inside. I think they have them at Antique Electronics in AZ (I 
can't remember), they aren't too hard to find, but you do have to look (often 
where they deal with getar amps).

JB