MOTM

To those of you who have or are planning to make wooden cabinets for your
modules:

How are you treating the back? Leaving it open? Finishing it with nice
plywood? Peg board for ventilation?

Also, what kinds of wood are you using? The only reasonable thing I can find
around here is Red Oak, which wouldn't be bad, but I'm interested in what
others have had success with. Buying a table saw on Saturday to get this
show on the road.

Thanks in advance.

My back will be like the Emu cabs, a fairly stiff (1/16") piece of aluminum
with captive machine screws. There will be a notch in one corner for a fixed
back plate attached permanently to the cabinet, which will have the
fuseholder and power connector, power switch, 1/4" outputs for busses, and
multiconnectors for CV snakes to rack mounted Expressionist, and to other
cabinets. I don't want ventilation, because the electronics shouldn't get
that hot, and creating an airflow through the cabinet invites dust.

For wood, oak is extremely hard, thus very hard to work and not that pretty
IMO. Walnut is one of the most beautiful, and only medium hard so not that
bad to work. It's getting very expensive. Put a red mahogany stain on it to
lighten it up to a beautiful golden color. Cherry is gorgeous but you can't
find it anymore. Stay away from poplar, it's a very soft wood that will dent
if you look at it funny. Same for pine, if you are going for an elegant
look.

What does that leave? All kinds of exotic woods, that you might run into a
special deal for by chance. Or, if you take extra care, you can consider a
fine walnut veneer over plywood. At least some of the Emu modulars did this,
and their cabinets looked fine to me.

Just avoid buying your wood at a big chain like Home Depot or Lowes. It's
not the place to look for hardwood. There are specialty hardwood suppliers
in most areas of the country, you just have to dig for them.

Dave Bradley
Principal Software Engineer
Engineering Animation, Inc.
daveb@...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tkacs, Ken [mailto:ken.tkacs@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2000 9:01 AM
> To: 'MOTM Forum All'
> Subject: [motm] Open Cabinet Question
>
>
> From: "Tkacs, Ken" <ken.tkacs@...>
>
>
> To those of you who have or are planning to make wooden cabinets for your
> modules:
>
> How are you treating the back? Leaving it open? Finishing it with nice
> plywood? Peg board for ventilation?
>
> Also, what kinds of wood are you using? The only reasonable thing
> I can find
> around here is Red Oak, which wouldn't be bad, but I'm interested in what
> others have had success with. Buying a table saw on Saturday to get this
> show on the road.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>

Thanks. I don't know what we have around here (well, we have Home Depot and
Lowe's...). Hardwoods just seem very hard to come by. Everyone in the
Northeast seems to think pine is good for everything. I'm not going for the
'knotty synth' look.

 -----Original Message-----
From: 	Dave Bradley [mailto:daveb@...] 
Sent:	Wednesday, 29 March, 2000 10:30 AM
To:	motm@onelist.com
Subject:	RE: [motm] Open Cabinet Question



For wood, oak is extremely hard, thus very hard to work and not that pretty
IMO. Walnut is one of the most beautiful, and only medium hard so not that
bad to work. It's getting very expensive. Put a red mahogany stain on it to
lighten it up to a beautiful golden color. Cherry is gorgeous but you can't
find it anymore. Stay away from poplar, it's a very soft wood that will dent
if you look at it funny. Same for pine, if you are going for an elegant
look.

What does that leave? All kinds of exotic woods, that you might run into a
special deal for by chance. Or, if you take extra care, you can consider a
fine walnut veneer over plywood. At least some of the Emu modulars did this,
and their cabinets looked fine to me.

Just avoid buying your wood at a big chain like Home Depot or Lowes. It's
not the place to look for hardwood. There are specialty hardwood suppliers
in most areas of the country, you just have to dig for them.

What a cool link! Mail order wood, wow!

 -----Original Message-----
From: 	Thomas Hudson [mailto:thudson@...] 
Sent:	Wednesday, 29 March, 2000 10:44 AM
To:	motm@onelist.com
Subject:	Re: [motm] Open Cabinet Question

From: Thomas Hudson <thudson@...>

"Tkacs, Ken" wrote:

> Also, what kinds of wood are you using? The only reasonable thing I can
find
> around here is Red Oak, which wouldn't be bad, but I'm interested in what
> others have had success with. Buying a table saw on Saturday to get this
> show on the road.
> 
I purchased paduak from Woodcraft. The wood is a deep orange red,  
and machines well. See
http://woodworkerssource.woodmall.com/woodworkerssource/paduakafrican.html

The picture shown is lighter than what I have. The grain is so nice
that I plan on using a clear finish with no staining.

You can also view various wood types at:
http://shop.woodcraft.com/woodcraft/dept.asp?dept%5Fid=2123

Oak is pretty heavy and tough to work with. Buy some extra saw blades.
Same is true for maple.

Walnut is nice to work with. Had I found a good deal on some walnut
I would have used it. I think it would look great with the MOTM
modules. 

If you decide to go with any exotic hardwoods, be sure to wear a 
dust mask. Dusk from some exotics is carcinogenic.

Thomas

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"Tkacs, Ken" wrote:

> Also, what kinds of wood are you using? The only reasonable thing I can find
> around here is Red Oak, which wouldn't be bad, but I'm interested in what
> others have had success with. Buying a table saw on Saturday to get this
> show on the road.
> 
I purchased paduak from Woodcraft. The wood is a deep orange red,  
and machines well. See
http://woodworkerssource.woodmall.com/woodworkerssource/paduakafrican.html

The picture shown is lighter than what I have. The grain is so nice
that I plan on using a clear finish with no staining.

You can also view various wood types at:
http://shop.woodcraft.com/woodcraft/dept.asp?dept%5Fid=2123

Oak is pretty heavy and tough to work with. Buy some extra saw blades.
Same is true for maple.

Walnut is nice to work with. Had I found a good deal on some walnut
I would have used it. I think it would look great with the MOTM
modules. 

If you decide to go with any exotic hardwoods, be sure to wear a 
dust mask. Dusk from some exotics is carcinogenic.

Thomas

Speaking of cabinets, what form factor are people planning on using for
large systems? I had planned on the Moog IIIC style bottom cabinet, 10U by
26U, with one or two 5U high top cabinets (not including rows for Larry's
Magic Buss(tm). But I don't know how ergonomic that is. I'm kind of leaning
more toward the U shape now, where you go 5 rows tall, with the top rows
slanting back towards you. This is like some of the large Serge or Buchla
systems I've seem (or the Luther Moog). It's easier to reach stuff at the
top and bottom, but almost requires one large cabinet to hold everything.
Maybe you could build a 16U wide by 25U high U shaped cab, then a second
identical one for expansion.

Am I dreaming? Probably, yes. But I envision a 12 VCO system, with 2 step
sequencers, 10 spaces reserved for a vocoder, etc. etc. and it looks REALLY
good on paper!

Dave Bradley
Principal Software Engineer
Engineering Animation, Inc.
daveb@...

> From: "Tkacs, Ken" <ken.tkacs@...>
>
>
> To those of you who have or are planning to make wooden cabinets for your
> modules:
>
> How are you treating the back? Leaving it open? Finishing it with nice
> plywood? Peg board for ventilation?
>
> Also, what kinds of wood are you using? The only reasonable thing
> I can find
> around here is Red Oak, which wouldn't be bad, but I'm interested in what
> others have had success with. Buying a table saw on Saturday to get this
> show on the road.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds!
> 1. Fill in the brief application
> 2. Receive approval decision within 30 seconds
> 3. Get rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR
> Apply NOW!
> http://click.egroups.com/1/975/3/_/529958/_/954342519/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>

(Sigh) I keep modifying my plans. Originally I was going for the IIIC "Wendy
Carlos Look-alike" console/permanent fixture design. Then I decided to go
for the "Tomita IIIp" system because I wanted to be at least a LITTLE
portable. The advantage of the IIIp type cabinets is that they allow you to
distribute modules amongst the cabinets in such a way that you can take one
or two with you and have a small core system with you. I was going to do
this in black Tolex, 10u across and three rows high.

Then everyone yelled at me that Tolex was crap and I should use fine woods,
which, the more I thought about it, the more I liked it. I used to do a
little woodworking in college, and I really do like wood as a material! And
I'm really not going to be going on the road *that* often, just to a
friend's studio for the occasional fun fest.

I still liked the idea of "smaller" cabinets as opposed to a huge console,
though, not only for portability and flexibility if I want to rearrange my
already cramped studio, but *mainly* because this modular will continue to
grow over the years. So either I make a HUGE console and have it 90% empty
for a while, or I can make my cabinet system "modular," if you will, so that
I can make new cabinets as I need them.

On the other hand, I like the ergonomics of the slanted console style!

*So*:  My current plan, always subject to change, is to have IIIp-type
cabinets sitting atop slanted base cabinets, made from a decent hardwood.
The lower cabinets will probably house sequencers, etc., things I probably
won't need to take with me (also the sequencer is rumored to be deeper, so
if I relegate it to the bottom I can make the upper cabinets more shallow).
The bottom slanted cabinets can also be replicated and flipped upside down
on top of the portable cabinets for that "C-shaped" ergonomic space-capsule
thing. I may need to clamp the top cabinets to the bottoms in the back
because they may not weigh enough to prevent falling backwards as I stab a
patchcord into a high module in exuberance.

Attached is a quick Photoshop sketch of what my current plan is for the
starter system. It occupies roughly the same space, and vaguely echoes the
look, of the Carlos Moog at its peak. Ignore the actual modules-I just
rubber stamped a few modules around so that I can see some knobs. My plan is
to initially make the top two portable cabinets (I already have enough
modules to start the second cabinet, and they're still coming). I expanded
the width to 12u from 10u because I figure the MOTM-900 power supply can
support a few more modules. I'm figuring on a PS for each portable cabinet,
and one shared along the bottom, stationary ones. I could make these slanted
bottom cabinets into one, but firstly, it wouldn't match up with the
portable cabinets that way, and second, I want those to be modular too, so
that I can add a third "column" to the right if need be.

 <<Cabinets4b.jpg>> 
I'm still debating mounting the MOTM-900 PS's in front or on the back. Or
going with internal supplies with a 1u front panel that has power and maybe
a meter or headphone amp or something.

So this is the current plan. I'm buying a table saw Saturday, because I'm
sick of changing my mind about it and I want to mount my modules! It sounds
like the rails will be available shortly, so I just want to settle on
something and get it done!!

But I'm open to criticism and suggestions if any of you have sage counsel
that will throw my plans into disarray and set me back a few weeks ;) .

 -----Original Message-----
From: 	Dave Bradley [mailto:daveb@...] 
Sent:	Wednesday, 29 March, 2000 11:12 AM
To:	motm@onelist.com
Subject:	RE: [motm] Open Cabinet Question

From: "Dave Bradley" <daveb@...>

Speaking of cabinets, what form factor are people planning on using for
large systems?

Ken,

For my cabinet, I was planning to keep it open, like Moog cabinets, but I will keep
it fairly close to a wall so there should be a lower "dust flow" than there would be
in the middle of a room.  However, for some other racks where I have MOTM stuff, I
was going to attach some chintz (sp) to the back of the rack to keep the dust down.

For wood, I think my woodworker friend is going to use either some walnut or maple
that he has around.  I know this can be the expensive part but I think as long as it
is a decent 3/4" or so hardwood, just about anything will work.

Be careful with that table saw!  You need those fingers for twiddling knobs too!

Eric (who tries to stay away from whirling metal objects)....

--- "Tkacs, Ken" <ken.tkacs@...> wrote:
> 
> To those of you who have or are planning to make wooden cabinets for your
> modules:
> 
> How are you treating the back? Leaving it open? Finishing it with nice
> plywood? Peg board for ventilation?
> 
> Also, what kinds of wood are you using? The only reasonable thing I can find
> around here is Red Oak, which wouldn't be bad, but I'm interested in what
> others have had success with. Buying a table saw on Saturday to get this
> show on the road.
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> 
> 

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Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
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Moog cabinets were open? I never knew that!

 -----Original Message-----
From: 	alt-mode [mailto:alt_mode@...] 
Sent:	Wednesday, 29 March, 2000 12:03 PM
To:	motm@onelist.com
Subject:	Re: [motm] Open Cabinet Question



For my cabinet, I was planning to keep it open, like Moog cabinets....

> If I didn't live in a small, Brooklyn apartment, I'd have a workshop...
> <grumble>


so when you hear that david has moved to the country, it won't be from city
life, but rather to have room to build modulars and support products.

i am trying to come up with a nice cab. for my setup, but i know that when i
do, i will buy more modules than i have allotted for.

-steve

>From: "Tkacs, Ken" <ken.tkacs@...>
>
>
>To those of you who have or are planning to make wooden cabinets for your
>modules:
>
>How are you treating the back? Leaving it open? Finishing it with nice
>plywood? Peg board for ventilation?

I left the back of my rack open, but I put rack rails on the back as well
as the front. I have the power supply and extension power board mounted on
the rear, in the bottom part of the rack. I figure I could cut a piece of
plywood for the back if I wanted to close it. Actually, now I'm wondering
too, should I close the back? I haven't yet because I'm futzing around in
there fairly often.

>
>Also, what kinds of wood are you using? The only reasonable thing I can find
>around here is Red Oak, which wouldn't be bad, but I'm interested in what
>others have had success with. Buying a table saw on Saturday to get this
>show on the road.

I just used 3/4" good quality plywood, and it looks quite good.

____________________________________________
Dave Trenkel : improv@...
Minus Web Site: http://listen.to/minusmusic
Minus MP3's: http://www.mp3.com/-minus-
____________________________________________

At one point I was considering buying some of those cheap Raxxess racks,
including the slanted cabinets, and doing this--one slanted "properly" on
the bottom, one vertical on top of that, and an inverted slanted unit on
top, held in the back with clamps. I figured that since they come un-built,
I could cut the wood down to a more reasonable depth (8 or 10 inches),
redrill some holes, etc. before putting them together. Still not a bad
idea...

If I didn't live in a small, Brooklyn apartment, I'd have a workshop...
<grumble>

David.

> The bottom slanted cabinets can also be replicated and flipped upside down
> on top of the portable cabinets for that "C-shaped" ergonomic
> space-capsule
> thing. I may need to clamp the top cabinets to the bottoms in the back
> because they may not weigh enough to prevent falling backwards as I stab a
> patchcord into a high module in exuberance.

Concerning backs:  I have planned to use a thin plywood (1/4") for the
back.  However, I plan to put mounting in the back for a 3U or 4U MOTM size
panel.  That panel "might" be a 900 power supply , or it might be a panel
drilled for a variety of other contraptions and connectors.

For example, my bottom cabinet will have a place for the AC cable to
connect on that panel, switched AC outlets so when I turn the bottom
cabinet on, the power supplies for cabinets 2, and 3 come on.  The magic
buss (tm) wiring will require some 1/4 phone jacks for inter-cabinet
connections.  In general, any backside connections will be on this panel. 
That way, they will be stationery and will not be effected by taking the
back on and off.

Larry H

> From: "Dave Bradley" <daveb@...>
> 
> Am I dreaming? Probably, yes. But I envision a 12 VCO system, with 2 step
> sequencers, 10 spaces reserved for a vocoder, etc. etc. and it looks
REALLY
> good on paper!

Gear up production Paul, Bradley's order for 8 more VCOs and $1000 deposit
for two DOMOAS sequencers is on the way.

Stooge Larry

Yes, the backs are open on the "C" or wood console cabinet systems.  Of course, the
portable cabinets are not open.  However, you have to remember that Moog modules
have a metal frame around the back of them that is the same size as the front panel.
(See: http://www.synthfool.com/images/m9212b.jpg to get an idea).  This protects the
boards and keeps the dust down around the boards,... well more or less.  It is
amazing the kind of crud that can accumulate over 30 years...  

Each board has an edge connector that peeks out from the metal.  Every edge
connector has all the front panel signals as well as power and ground (some modules,
such as the 901 VCO family, require additional voltages).  It is possible to have
normalized connections but the only place I have seen them used is with the CV and
S-Trigger to the VCOs, VCF, and EGs.  There is a harness that collects all the edge
connectors back to a large terminal strip.  Reconfiguring the modules in a Moog is
not a trivial task.  Unless the modules are of the same size and have identical edge
pinouts, you need to redo the harness and that's not something you do in in an hour
or two ;)

Of course, MOTM doesn't have this problem.  Polyfusion also fixed this by having a
consistent edge connection used throughout.

...OK, back to work....

Eric

--- "Tkacs, Ken" <ken.tkacs@...> wrote:
> 
> Moog cabinets were open? I never knew that!
> 
>  -----Original Message-----
> From: 	alt-mode [mailto:alt_mode@...] 
> Sent:	Wednesday, 29 March, 2000 12:03 PM
> To:	motm@onelist.com
> Subject:	Re: [motm] Open Cabinet Question
> 
> 
> 
> For my cabinet, I was planning to keep it open, like Moog cabinets....
> 

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In a message dated 03/29/2000 11:25:58 AM, ken.tkacs@... writes:

<<  Hardwoods just seem very hard to come by. >>

Most cities, even small ones, have hardwood dealers.  There's a small one 
near here in Woonsocket, RI.  Talk to your local cabinet makers, or go to a 
place like Woodworker's Supply and ask them.

Ivan

In a message dated 3/29/2000 9:21:52 AM, daveb@... writes:

>Speaking of cabinets, what form factor are people planning on using for
>large systems? I had planned on the Moog IIIC style bottom cabinet, 10U
>by
>26U, with one or two 5U high top cabinets (not including rows for Larry's
>Magic Buss(tm). But I don't know how ergonomic that is. I'm kind of leaning
>more toward the U shape now, where you go 5 rows tall, with the top rows
>slanting back towards you. This is like some of the large Serge or Buchla
>systems I've seem (or the Luther Moog). It's easier to reach stuff at the
>top and bottom, but almost requires one large cabinet to hold everything.
>Maybe you could build a 16U wide by 25U high U shaped cab, then a second
>identical one for expansion.

Forget what those other knuckle heads say Moe! Stooges have to stick together 
(???) right? I've been thinking a lot about this over the past few months 
since I don't want to build one cabinet, only to need another shortly after. 
I'd much rather have a cabinet fifty per cent full ("than fifty per cent 
empty?"), than have only enough room for 8 more 2U modules.

While I actually agree to some extent about the fatigue of having one's arms 
over one's head, I wonder how much less fatiguing it is to have ones arms at 
say a 30 degree angle above one's shoulder. Also taking into account that the 
higher rows of modules may require stretching an already fully extended arm 
to reach anyway, unless they are pitched back.

The main reason I've been looking at this is due to wanting to stay in one 
place as much as I can if I'm wearing a guitar. I've also been thinking (a 
little more realistically) about a 15U by 24U sloped cabinet, but I like the 
Apollo 11 look of the overhead panels a lot.

Keep thinkin Moe!
JB
Hey! What's the Luther Moog? Bob's jealous, evil brother?

The more pictures I see of the top row of modules sloping down, the more I 
consider changing my cabinet design.  On page 24 of the April issue of 
Keyboard magazine, there is a Moog that is 4 modules high that has the a mild 
slope on the top and on the bottom, and it looks pretty good.

-Elhardt

Roger Luther was the factory manager for Moog for years and put together a
jaw-dropping custom Moog that was recently shown at NAMM, then donated to
Dave Kean's synth museum Audities. It has lots of custom features including:

EGs that can be retriggered for LFO behavior,
Filters repanelled to take up only 1 space,
VCOs modified so that they don't require slave controllers.

It also features a 5 octave scale programmer and 2 keyboards, 1 with
velocity, in a slide out drawer under the main cabinet.

Hold onto your jaw, and click here:

http://www.audities.org/images/moogmisc/roger_luther.htm

Moe

>
> From: jwbarlow@...
> Keep thinkin Moe!
> JB
> Hey! What's the Luther Moog? Bob's jealous, evil brother?
>

In a message dated 3/30/2000 11:36:19 AM, daveb@... writes:

>Roger Luther was the factory manager for Moog for years and put together
>a
>jaw-dropping custom Moog that was recently shown at NAMM, then donated
>to
>Dave Kean's synth museum Audities. It has lots of custom features including:
>
>EGs that can be retriggered for LFO behavior,
>Filters repanelled to take up only 1 space,
>VCOs modified so that they don't require slave controllers.
>
>It also features a 5 octave scale programmer and 2 keyboards, 1 with
>velocity, in a slide out drawer under the main cabinet.
>
>Hold onto your jaw, and click here:
>
>http://www.audities.org/images/moogmisc/roger_luther.htm


Very cool (picking up my jaw)! It also features the J. Larry Hendry memorial 
meter panel. 

The caption for this might read, "the University Board reluctantly agree to 
pay the tens of thousands of dollars to purchase the system initially, but 
put it's foot down when it came to the additional request for patch cables. 
They did allow, in their magnanimity, the Department a budget of $20 annually 
for cables since the Department Head seemed so adamant about the request."

I think I'd prefer my topmost row to be far more sloped, however.
John B.

Hi Everybody,
 I put a back on my wood cabinet also. I constructed
it with wood and aluminum. For the aluminum, I made
a panel the width of my cabinet and 10"long. Then I
put a 90 deg. bend in the middle. This gave me a 5"
bottom inside the cabinet to mount power busses and
the power supply. The 5" on the back is for mounting
the AC cord receptacle and any other jacks and outlets
I may need in the future. The rest of the opening is
covered by 1/8" birch plywood. I still have to stain
and finish this in walnut to match the rest of the wood.
Put some pics up if anyone cares to have a look.
Here's the back without the plywood.
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Frontrow/4877/back2.jpg
A couple front views of the power supply.
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Frontrow/4877/psupply1.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Frontrow/4877/psupply2.jpg
The back with the unfinished plywood.
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Frontrow/4877/back3.jpg
And a front pic.(It's getting there.)
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Frontrow/4877/front2.jpg
Sorry if the pics are too large!
Terry