MOTM

Ken,
I agree with you 100%. My MOTM is in a tall 7' freestanding rack instead of 
a cabinet but I still want my ASM and other stuff to have at least the same 
color scheme and knob/jack type. I see it as a fine instrument too. I 
personally like to be able to see the "guts" as well. Looks high tech.

Do you use the same type of paint as is on the MOTM panels? If so how does 
it spray? I have yet to find a place that sells it. I heard sherman williams 
does but can't find one that carries it. I don't mind drilling aluminum and 
painting it. I just wish there was a good way to get the knob patterns and 
labels silk screened for a reasonable price.

>From: "Tkacs, Ken" <ken.tkacs@...>
>Reply-To: motm@egroups.com
>To: "'motm@egroups.com'" <motm@egroups.com>
>Subject: RE: [motm] Blacet Chop-Up Question
>Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 09:43:12 -0400
>
>
>I must echo Mr. Hendry's sentiments regarding the front panels. Simply
>mounting a Blacet module in the center of a 2ux5u panel just seems like
>making a bad thing worse. First of all, it's really ugly, worse than just
>having a separate rack of 'Frac Rack' gear on the side. If that isn't
>enough, you still have the weeny little jacks, tiny knobs, and cramped
>spacing, very important factors in a modular that we decided not to put up
>with when we went MOTM, no?
>
>You can look at the modular and see a big machine like a telephone
>switchboard, or you can see it as a beautiful musical instrument. I see it
>as the latter; I assume so many of us are discussing fine hardwood cabinets
>because we want our modulars to be more than just some sheet metal with
>holes in it and wires sticking out the sides. We want them to look 
>beautiful
>and feel beautiful. It's a musical instrument! You have to have a
>relationship with it. We put a lot of work into this stuff; let's put a
>little more in and be really proud of it! (I bought a table saw this past
>Saturday pretty much justified by my wanting to make cabinets for my 
>modular
>as good as I can possibly make them.)
>
>The MOTM form factor, in my opinion, is unquestionably the best on the
>market in terms of appearance and functionality. So for my money, anything
>else I have must conform to *it*. Sure, it's a lot of work converting these
>other odd modules to the MOTM style. You can build an MOTM kit in one
>sitting, usually, and be done with it, while converting other PCBs/kits can
>take many hours and a lot of extra money replacing parts to get them to
>match MOTM. But nothing beats having a consistent appearance and
>functionality across the entire modular.
>
>For instance, I plan on converting my old Hot Springs reverb units to MOTM
>format in the near future. If MOTM made a spring reverb unit, I wouldn't
>bother, because it's probably going to take me as much time to create 
>panels
>for those units as it would to build ten MOTM-300 VCOs. But if there's
>something that I really want to be a part of my modular, and I can't get it
>through MOTM, then it has to at least match. That goes for old stuff I have
>in my rack, DIY projects, or interesting/unusual circuits from other
>manufacturers. That's all there is to it.
>
>You know, when I decided to build a big modular, there was a reason I 
>didn't
>go with Doepfer, Serge, or the 'Frac Rack' camp of Paia & Blacet as my
>basis. It goes beyond the electronics---the ergonomics and the appearance
>are critical factors as well. So when deciding to add a few odd modules 
>from
>one of those other manufacturers, or tinkering together a circuit of my 
>own,
>it seems clear that making quality front panels for them as well as one can
>is the way to go. If I had no tools or never took shop in school, then 
>maybe
>I would be satisfied with sticking my DIY stuff in a shoebox. But if I'm
>coordinated enough to solder these kits together and have them work every
>time, I'm skilled enough to drill holes in aluminum and wave a spray paint
>can at them to do it up right.
>

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> Do you use the same type of paint as is on the MOTM panels? If so
> how does
> it spray? I have yet to find a place that sells it. I heard
> sherman williams
> does but can't find one that carries it. I don't mind drilling
> aluminum and
> painting it. I just wish there was a good way to get the knob
> patterns and
> labels silk screened for a reasonable price.

Some of us are seriously working on this very thing offlist. When we have a
breakthrough, you'll all be the first to know.

Dave Bradley
Principal Software Engineer
Engineering Animation, Inc.
daveb@...

In a message dated 4/6/2000 7:56:50 AM, daveb@... writes:

>Some of us are seriously working on this very thing offlist. When we have
>a
>breakthrough, you'll all be the first to know.

All 70 of you will be the first to know.

Seriously working!
JB

On Thu, 6 Apr 2000, james holloway wrote:

> Do you use the same type of paint as is on the MOTM panels? If so how does 
> it spray? I have yet to find a place that sells it. I heard sherman williams 
> does but can't find one that carries it. I don't mind drilling aluminum and 
> painting it. I just wish there was a good way to get the knob patterns and 
> labels silk screened for a reasonable price.

  The metalshop I "have the keys to" we usually make own paint of this
sort:  we use something like a 1:4 mix of epoxy enamel and black enamel in
the spray jar, and the usual compressed-air hose and nozzle system.  It is
important of course to pre-coat all the metalwork with a primer (the grey
stuff).  Then the epoxy-enamel mixture goes on, yielding that
"fingerprint-hiding" mottled look.

  I can go dig up the catalog numbers of the paint, epoxy, etc. if needed.

  Silkscreening is another matter.  We used to do it, but have outsourced
it for years.

Crow

/**/

In a message dated 4/6/2000 7:55:15 AM, Moe rhetorically writes:

>Is the DarkStar worth all this? 

No! It's not! 

>Frankly, it's kind of an underwhelming
>module to me. It's just a 1970's video game chip, no more, no less. 

Exactamundo! Even if it had a bunch of simple AD/ARs and LFOs, it's still not 
as much fun to play with as I thought it would be.

>The
>point is that I'm developing the techniques I'll need to integrate DIY
>modules or pcbs made by others into my system.

This might make it worth the expense/experience -- but I can't justify it for 
this module especially. Which is why I'm willing to purchase two DSC front 
panels and a bunch of pots and knobs from people (anyone?) who are changing 
out their stuff. I need to use rack mounted stuff for other stuff anyway so 
the FracRack isn't as big of an issue in this regard (BTW, it actually is a 
good format for mounting a bunch of rack mounted guitar effects). I do plan 
on adding DIY modules to my MOTM, but the DSC doesn't cut it. I'd prefer to 
have more useful (real synth type) modules in my MOTM. At this point I'd like 
to just get the PCBs out of my hair.

JB
BTW, I've been working on a high density (Serge style) format for my (very 
few) successful diy projects. The holes are laid out in a grid with the 
vertical height EXACTLY the same as the Blacet knob distance (though I use 
smaller diameter knobs -- 0.5" when I can find them). I find my layout to be 
a bit better than the Blacet since I ALWAYS have the attenuating pot right 
above or next to the input jack. Way to tight for you excessive twiddlers, 
but it does cause one to think, "what knob was I going to grab, and why?"

Seems like that method would work well if one can not find Poulane paint. 
Paint isn't as much a factor as the labelling though. I guess I'll just have 
to bite the bullet and hire a Sign shop to do silkscreening.

>From: The Old Crow <oldcrow@...>
>Reply-To: motm@egroups.com
>To: motm@egroups.com
>Subject: RE: [motm] Blacet Chop-Up Question
>Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 11:34:21 -0400 (EDT)
>
>
>On Thu, 6 Apr 2000, james holloway wrote:
>
> > Do you use the same type of paint as is on the MOTM panels? If so how 
>does
> > it spray? I have yet to find a place that sells it. I heard sherman 
>williams
> > does but can't find one that carries it. I don't mind drilling aluminum 
>and
> > painting it. I just wish there was a good way to get the knob patterns 
>and
> > labels silk screened for a reasonable price.
>
>   The metalshop I "have the keys to" we usually make own paint of this
>sort:  we use something like a 1:4 mix of epoxy enamel and black enamel in
>the spray jar, and the usual compressed-air hose and nozzle system.  It is
>important of course to pre-coat all the metalwork with a primer (the grey
>stuff).  Then the epoxy-enamel mixture goes on, yielding that
>"fingerprint-hiding" mottled look.
>
>   I can go dig up the catalog numbers of the paint, epoxy, etc. if needed.
>
>   Silkscreening is another matter.  We used to do it, but have outsourced
>it for years.
>
>Crow
>
>/**/
>

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>In a message dated 4/6/2000 7:55:15 AM, Moe rhetorically writes:
>
>>Is the DarkStar worth all this?
>
>No! It's not!

Yes! It is! :-)
>
>>Frankly, it's kind of an underwhelming
>>module to me. It's just a 1970's video game chip, no more, no less.
>
>Exactamundo! Even if it had a bunch of simple AD/ARs and LFOs, it's still not
>as much fun to play with as I thought it would be.
>
I have 2 Dark Stars, and I love 'em! Dif'rent strokes, I guess. Yeah.
there's a video game quality to the sound, but I don't mind that in the
least. My only criticism is that the built-in envelope is not very snappy,
especially for something that makes such great percussion sounds, so I
usually route it through an external EG/VCA. I just keep mine mounted in a
frac rac in the same rack as my MOTM. They seem to co-exist peacefully.

Anybody built John's new Final Filtre yet? I'm intrigued as to how unique a
sound it really is.


____________________________________________
Dave Trenkel : improv@...
Minus Web Site: http://listen.to/minusmusic
Minus MP3's: http://www.mp3.com/-minus-
____________________________________________

At 03:00 PM 04/06/2000 -0700, Dave Trenkel <improv@...> wrote:
>>In a message dated 4/6/2000 7:55:15 AM, Moe rhetorically writes:
>>
>>>Is the DarkStar worth all this?
>>
>>No! It's not!
>
>Yes! It is! :-)

I'm with Dave here.  I only own one, but I love it!  It certainly *does*
have the "digital video game" sound to it, but I like to have that in my
available tonal palette (even if it's not for everyone).  The sound and
control methods are quite different from "traditional" analog noise
sources.  I've come to appreciate digital circuits under analog control,
and I like how the Dark Star can be controlled for fairly-specific sounds
if you want, but can also get very random.

I'm sure it helps, too, that I have tiny violinist's fingers, which
definitely makes it easier to deal with the smaller knobs, 1/8" cords, and
side-by-side jacks and knobs (even though I do prefer the more standard
knobs-on-top, jacks-below).  So for that reason, I don't feel any need to
upgrade the packaging to MOTM standards.

>I just keep mine mounted in a
>frac rac in the same rack as my MOTM. They seem to co-exist peacefully.

Works for me.  A FracRack of Blacet, a row of MOTM, and an Ibanez AD202
analog delay make for a very nice way to fill a 10U rack.

>Anybody built John's new Final Filtre yet? I'm intrigued as to how unique a
>sound it really is.

Mine (pre-assembled) arrived today, but my weekend schedule may not allow
me to try it out until next week :^(.  Yes, I'm definitely hoping that it's
as different from the MOTM-420 & -440 as those two are from each other.
I'm really glad that the MOTM filters are so different from each other
(can't wait for the Xpander-style multimode filter!) ... I'm really liking
the MOTM-440 and I can really see how switching a patch from the -420 to
-440 could inspire a musical piece to go in a completely different
direction from something harsh to something soft and bubbly ...

	-Doug
	 ceres@...