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RE: [motm] more with less

RE: [motm] more with less

2000-04-21 by Brousseau, Paul E (Paul)

I would think that an analog delay could delay a trigger, as I imagine it's
just a voltage spike.  I suppose you might just need to be sure you get the
same amplitude coming out as in.  And I suspect there might be some slew or
jitter...?

BTW, I listened to the 410-track yesterday, and I enjoyed it!  Nice use of
minimalism and cut-ups.  One possible recommendation: on headphones, the
panning is a little extreme and perhaps disorienting.  I imagine its not
quite as noticable on regular moniters / speakers.  Or maybe, that's what
you were aiming for; the rest of the piece is enveloping, so perhaps a bit
of disorientation is good.  (Nice track by Hazard on the 'Lech' CD to that
effect.)

--PBr
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> -----Original Message-----
> From:	David Bivins [SMTP:dbivins@...]
> Sent:	Friday, April 21, 2000 12:48 PM
> To:	MOTM
> Subject:	[motm] more with less
> 
> I really love using one sequence to spawn many distinctly different
> events.
> I'm hoping that the lag processor will really open things up for me in
> this
> respect. I'd also be interested in something that can delay a trigger...
> can
> an analog delay be used to delay voltage triggers? Or do I need something
> like a string of capacitors?
>

RE: [motm] more with less

2000-04-21 by Brousseau, Paul E (Paul)

Cut-ups was a word I used haphazardly; I was referring to a certain sound (I
forget which) that came in and out of the mix seemingly randomly.

Speaking of disorientation and tracks that make one ill, take a listen to
Orphx's first album on Malignant Records (Fragmentation) on headphones.
There's one track that starts with a hard rapid drumming, with each beat
panned hard to an alternating side (R,L,R,L, etc).  When I first heard it I
had to pull off my headphones before I fell over.

I know of a couple other audio tricks that I've never tried.  Firstly,
frequencies in the range of 40kHz can cause headaches... without the
recipient knowing why, because they can't audibly hear the tones.  Secondly,
ultra-low frequencies (1-10Hz) are supposed to cause a variety of effects.
Unfortunately, its damn hard to get something in the audible range, so you
have to use beat-frequencies (play two tones whose differences are 1-10Hz).
At least one effect, as I understand, is to help sleep more soundly is
listened to as you're about to fall asleep.

Getting back to your track, I'm glad you decided to stick with the extreme
panning, I think it makes the track more interesting.  Perhaps something you
can try if you want more irregularity is to modulate the LFO, perhaps with
itself through the upcoming VCLag (sine out to shape in?), or with another
LFO.

--PBr
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> -----Original Message-----
> From:	David Bivins [SMTP:dbivins@...]
> Sent:	Friday, April 21, 2000 2:50 PM
> To:	motm@egroups.com
> Subject:	RE: [motm] more with less
> 
> It does pan a bit wide. I had the left and right channels more toward
> center
> at first, but then, as I was venturing into unknown territory (for myself,
> that is), I decided to keep it extreme. I think it's interesting for the
> listener to realize at some point that the panning is frequency dependent.
> I
> think overall the track can be somewhat unsettling, especially with the
> clicky stuff that comes out of the 440.
> 
> I had a long discussion with Kristen (my significant other) last night
> about
> this track. She thought that there was a regularity to it that she felt I
> could/perhaps should have broken free from. It was kind of disappointing
> because, though there is a specific regularity to the single note that the
> 303 plays each measure (which you only hear at certain points), the 320
> LFO
> and the 410 LFOs are moving at different rates, and I was actively
> changing
> the rates over the course of the track to counter their "natural"
> regularity. So based on her take on the track, I failed!
> 
> I'll have to check out that Hazard track.
> 
> Speaking of disorientation in music: Is anyone into The Anti-Group A.K.A.
> The Anti-Group Conspiracy (TAGC)? Brainchild of Adi Newton (Clock DVA). I
> brought home the Meontological Research CD (took years tracking a copy
> down)
> and I had to take it off because it was making Kristen feel physically
> ill.
> I don't know a lot about psychoacoustic stuff and physical effects of
> acoustic stuff (I've read a lot, but I'm not an expert by any stretch),
> but
> Newton is rather insane about it all and has written tons of pages
> regarding
> this kind of thing; also see Coil and William S. Burroughs in Daniel
> Odier's
> book "The Job: Interviews with WSB." Not as unsettling by far, the TAGC
> album "Digitaria" is beautiful.
> 
> BTW--I'm not sure what you meant by cut-ups--there are no edits or
> overdubs
> in the track. It was recorded live. Perhaps you mean structurally--that I
> understand.
> 
>

RE: [motm] more with less

2000-04-21 by David Bivins

It does pan a bit wide. I had the left and right channels more toward center
at first, but then, as I was venturing into unknown territory (for myself,
that is), I decided to keep it extreme. I think it's interesting for the
listener to realize at some point that the panning is frequency dependent. I
think overall the track can be somewhat unsettling, especially with the
clicky stuff that comes out of the 440.

I had a long discussion with Kristen (my significant other) last night about
this track. She thought that there was a regularity to it that she felt I
could/perhaps should have broken free from. It was kind of disappointing
because, though there is a specific regularity to the single note that the
303 plays each measure (which you only hear at certain points), the 320 LFO
and the 410 LFOs are moving at different rates, and I was actively changing
the rates over the course of the track to counter their "natural"
regularity. So based on her take on the track, I failed!

I'll have to check out that Hazard track.

Speaking of disorientation in music: Is anyone into The Anti-Group A.K.A.
The Anti-Group Conspiracy (TAGC)? Brainchild of Adi Newton (Clock DVA). I
brought home the Meontological Research CD (took years tracking a copy down)
and I had to take it off because it was making Kristen feel physically ill.
I don't know a lot about psychoacoustic stuff and physical effects of
acoustic stuff (I've read a lot, but I'm not an expert by any stretch), but
Newton is rather insane about it all and has written tons of pages regarding
this kind of thing; also see Coil and William S. Burroughs in Daniel Odier's
book "The Job: Interviews with WSB." Not as unsettling by far, the TAGC
album "Digitaria" is beautiful.

BTW--I'm not sure what you meant by cut-ups--there are no edits or overdubs
in the track. It was recorded live. Perhaps you mean structurally--that I
understand.

Thanks for listening!

David.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brousseau, Paul E (Paul) [mailto:noise@...]
> Sent: Friday, April 21, 2000 11:54 AM
> To: 'motm@egroups.com'
> Subject: RE: [motm] more with less
>
>
> I would think that an analog delay could delay a trigger, as I
> imagine it's
> just a voltage spike.  I suppose you might just need to be sure
> you get the
> same amplitude coming out as in.  And I suspect there might be
> some slew or
> jitter...?
>
> BTW, I listened to the 410-track yesterday, and I enjoyed it!  Nice use of
> minimalism and cut-ups.  One possible recommendation: on headphones, the
> panning is a little extreme and perhaps disorienting.  I imagine its not
> quite as noticable on regular moniters / speakers.  Or maybe, that's what
> you were aiming for; the rest of the piece is enveloping, so perhaps a bit
> of disorientation is good.  (Nice track by Hazard on the 'Lech' CD to that
> effect.)
>
> --PBr
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:	David Bivins [SMTP:dbivins@...]
> > Sent:	Friday, April 21, 2000 12:48 PM
> > To:	MOTM
> > Subject:	[motm] more with less
> >
> > I really love using one sequence to spawn many distinctly different
> > events.
> > I'm hoping that the lag processor will really open things up for me in
> > this
> > respect. I'd also be interested in something that can delay a trigger...
> > can
> > an analog delay be used to delay voltage triggers? Or do I need
> something
> > like a string of capacitors?
> >
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> High rates giving you headaches? The 0% APR Introductory Rate from
> Capital One. 9.9% Fixed thereafter!
> http://click.egroups.com/1/3010/3/_/529958/_/956339570/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>

RE: [motm] more with less

2000-04-21 by David Bivins

> this kind of thing; also see Coil and William S. Burroughs in
> Daniel Odier's
> book "The Job: Interviews with WSB." Not as unsettling by far, the TAGC

Sorry--Coil and Burroughs are not in that book together. I should have
written "also see Coil, and separately, Burroughs thoughts in Odier's
book..."

RE: [motm] more with less

2000-04-21 by james holloway

>From: "Brousseau, Paul E (Paul)" <noise@...>
>Reply-To: motm@egroups.com
>To: "'motm@egroups.com'" <motm@egroups.com>
>Subject: RE: [motm] more with less
>Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 13:34:27 -0700
>
>Cut-ups was a word I used haphazardly; I was referring to a certain sound 
>(I
>forget which) that came in and out of the mix seemingly randomly.
>
>Speaking of disorientation and tracks that make one ill, take a listen to
>Orphx's first album on Malignant Records (Fragmentation) on headphones.
>There's one track that starts with a hard rapid drumming, with each beat
>panned hard to an alternating side (R,L,R,L, etc).  When I first heard it I
>had to pull off my headphones before I fell over.
>
>I know of a couple other audio tricks that I've never tried.  Firstly,
>frequencies in the range of 40kHz can cause headaches... without the
>recipient knowing why, because they can't audibly hear the tones.  
>Secondly,
>ultra-low frequencies (1-10Hz) are supposed to cause a variety of effects.
>Unfortunately, its damn hard to get something in the audible range, so you
>have to use beat-frequencies (play two tones whose differences are 1-10Hz).
>At least one effect, as I understand, is to help sleep more soundly is
>listened to as you're about to fall asleep.
>

Human brainwaves are in Theta (most relaxed) at 6.7 Hz. Frequencies at or 
close to there cause an effect of the brain trying to sync-up with them 
making you very relaxed. There are some tapes and machines designed to 
binaurally beat at these frequencies just for this purpose.

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RE: [motm] more with less

2000-04-21 by james holloway

>From: "David Bivins" <dbivins@...>
>Reply-To: motm@egroups.com
>To: <motm@egroups.com>
>Subject: RE: [motm] more with less
>Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 18:56:06 -0600
>
> > Human brainwaves are in Theta (most relaxed) at 6.7 Hz. Frequencies at 
>or
> > close to there cause an effect of the brain trying to sync-up with them
> > making you very relaxed. There are some tapes and machines designed to
> > binaurally beat at these frequencies just for this purpose.
>
>I've done this with a tape--I think it was called the Silva method (years
>ago, not sure). It worked wonderfully for deep relaxation.
>
>There are tutorials in Cool Edit (shareware PC audio program available from
>http://www.syntrillium.com) that guide you through various "brainwave 
>audio"
>exercises; the program has rudimentary synthesis capabilities, so you can
>construct an entire session of various waves. It's lots of fun! (must
>develop equivalent MOTM patches to put the crowd to sleep at my next 
>gig...)
>
>David.
>
That's what I'm referring to, Silva was an early poineer. There are others, 
and considerable research being done. Anyway, does the "trance" type of 
music really invoke a trance. Maybe we could create a "sleepy" patch and 
eventually control the world. MOTM rules!!!
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RE: [motm] more with less

2000-04-22 by David Bivins

> Human brainwaves are in Theta (most relaxed) at 6.7 Hz. Frequencies at or
> close to there cause an effect of the brain trying to sync-up with them
> making you very relaxed. There are some tapes and machines designed to
> binaurally beat at these frequencies just for this purpose.

I've done this with a tape--I think it was called the Silva method (years
ago, not sure). It worked wonderfully for deep relaxation.

There are tutorials in Cool Edit (shareware PC audio program available from
http://www.syntrillium.com) that guide you through various "brainwave audio"
exercises; the program has rudimentary synthesis capabilities, so you can
construct an entire session of various waves. It's lots of fun! (must
develop equivalent MOTM patches to put the crowd to sleep at my next gig...)

David.

Re: [motm] more with less

2000-04-22 by doctor universalis

hello all,
> Speaking of disorientation in music: Is anyone into The Anti-Group A.K.A.
> The Anti-Group Conspiracy (TAGC)? Brainchild of Adi Newton (Clock DVA). I
> brought home the Meontological Research CD (took years tracking a copy
down)
> and I had to take it off because it was making Kristen feel physically ill

yep, that was a particularly good album - cia cia cia fbi fbi fbi :-)
those DVA & TAGC fans amongst you will be happy to note that Mute/Grey Area
are finally getting around to re-issuing all the DVA stuff and some of the
TAGC stuff
being a native of Sheffield i've had several odd evenings talking with Adi
about psychoacoustics - i'm happy to report he's not the type (not
mentioning any names) who thinks psychoacoustics is about mounting a
gigantic set of speakers on a tank then inviting loads of jounalists to
watch them scare a herd of cows
i wrote several articles on psychoacoustics for an experimental music
magazine called Noisegate (edited by Paddy from Bow Gamelan and put on the
net by Bob Baker from DVA) - my own computer is down at the moment, but i'll
dig out the URL
half the reason i bought MOTM equipment is that the 300 & 320 are both
perfect for psychoacoustic work, not that i've had much chance in the last
year thanks to workload and my frequency counter being up the spout

cheers
paul b

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