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stupid electronics tricks

stupid electronics tricks

2000-12-28 by Celeste H

i was listening to Alvin Lucier's _Music on a Long Thin Wire_ and i got
the idea that it might be possible to run the output from MOTM modules
down guitar strings (Solder the tip of a plug to an aligator clip attached
to the string by the guitar head, solder ground to a aligator clip
attached to the bridge) and that perharps the fluctuating signal along
the wire would cause the magnets in the pickups to bounce around and thus
generate a signal out through the guitar's jack.

Questions:

Will this hurt the MOTM?
Will this hurt the guitar?
Could this harm somebody holding the guitar?  (i was going to play some
led zepplin but i got a huge shock when i touched the strings!)

Should I put a resistor in here someplace?

Is there a way to electrically seperate the current running down the
guitar string from the MOTM so that doing something weird like dropping
the guitar in a bathtub full of saltwater would not hurt the MOTM?  Or
would it not get hurt anyway?

Is this how spring reverb works?  (now with string reverb!)

thanks,
Celeste


----------------------------------------------------------
celesteh@...   http://www.casaninja.com/celesteh
                               http://www.mp3.com/celesteh

Re: [motm] stupid electronics tricks

2000-12-28 by alt-mode

Celeste,

The output of the MOTM is an electrical signal, not a mechanical signal.  So, it
won't vibrate the string (well, not at the voltages from the MOTM; I'm sure Stooge
Larry has some amazing high voltage wire bending stories ;).  What you would want is
the output of a transducer that changes the electrical energy to mechanical energy. 
This would cause the wire to vibrate and yes, it is the basic principle of a spring
reverb.  A guitar pickup translates mechanical energy (a vibrating string) to
electrical energy.

Eric

--- Celeste H <celesteh@...> wrote:
> 
> i was listening to Alvin Lucier's _Music on a Long Thin Wire_ and i got
> the idea that it might be possible to run the output from MOTM modules
> down guitar strings (Solder the tip of a plug to an aligator clip attached
> to the string by the guitar head, solder ground to a aligator clip
> attached to the bridge) and that perharps the fluctuating signal along
> the wire would cause the magnets in the pickups to bounce around and thus
> generate a signal out through the guitar's jack.
> 
> Questions:
> 
> Will this hurt the MOTM?
> Will this hurt the guitar?
> Could this harm somebody holding the guitar?  (i was going to play some
> led zepplin but i got a huge shock when i touched the strings!)
> 
> Should I put a resistor in here someplace?
> 
> Is there a way to electrically seperate the current running down the
> guitar string from the MOTM so that doing something weird like dropping
> the guitar in a bathtub full of saltwater would not hurt the MOTM?  Or
> would it not get hurt anyway?
> 
> Is this how spring reverb works?  (now with string reverb!)
> 
> thanks,
> Celeste
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> celesteh@...   http://www.casaninja.com/celesteh
>                                http://www.mp3.com/celesteh
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


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Re: [motm] stupid electronics tricks

2000-12-28 by jwbarlow@aol.com

I agree with Eric. I'll try and answer the questions too!

First, is this Lucier piece available now? BTW, I never was able to get that 
Henry "Music for a Door and a Sigh" since it is now out of print (sigh).

In a message dated 12/27/2000 4:15:31 PM, celesteh@... writes:

>i was listening to Alvin Lucier's _Music on a Long Thin Wire_ and i got
>the idea that it might be possible to run the output from MOTM modules
>down guitar strings (Solder the tip of a plug to an aligator clip attached
>to the string by the guitar head, solder ground to a aligator clip
>attached to the bridge) and that perharps the fluctuating signal along
>the wire would cause the magnets in the pickups to bounce around and thus
>generate a signal out through the guitar's jack.
>
>Questions:
>
>Will this hurt the MOTM?

Probably not, but bridge and the string are electrically connected, so you 
will be shorting out the output from the MOTM which is never a good idea.

>Will this hurt the guitar?

Naw. Guitars are hard to hurt. Mic stands, sliding off from leaning against 
amps, and throwing them at speaker cabinets are tried and true ways to hurt 
guitars.

>Could this harm somebody holding the guitar?  (i was going to play some
>led zepplin but i got a huge shock when i touched the strings!)

Serves you right too <grin>! Especially if it was "Stariway to Heaven"


Actually you can get nasty shocks if you get between guitars and other 
electrical stuff like mics. It's best to touch the tuning machines against 
the mic and watch for arcing to avoid getting zapped. If there is arcing, 
change the position of the ground switch on the guitar amp.


>Should I put a resistor in here someplace?


>Is there a way to electrically seperate the current running down the
>guitar string from the MOTM so that doing something weird like dropping
>the guitar in a bathtub full of saltwater would not hurt the MOTM?  Or
>would it not get hurt anyway?
>
>Is this how spring reverb works?  (now with string reverb!)

The reverb PU apparatus is kind similar to the guitar string PU, but the way 
you get the mechanical information into the guitar string is typically by 
plucking it (with ones fingers or finger nails), picking it (plastic picks, 
finger picks, metal picks, coins, etc.), bowing it (thanks to Jimmy Page -- 
but that Spinal Tap bit with the violin is priceless) or an E-Bow (which is 
more germane to this question). The information is delivered to a spring on a 
reverb unit via a transducer (can anyone comment on this transducer here? I'd 
like to know more about one for an idea similar to what Celeste is asking 
about) -- the transducer turns the electrical information into mechanical 
information much like a speaker does.

Many years ago, I bought a Chapman Stick from a guy who had a reverb made 
from piano strings (the "harp" part of the piano) -- a tuned reverb unit! It 
sounded great! So this must be possible.

I think an E-Bow is some sort of oscillator which generates a magnetic field 
which in turn induces the guitar string (or other magnetic objects) to vibra
te. What I'd like to see is a device like an E-Bow which will take a line 
level output, and generate a magnetic field at that frequency, and then build 
a multi string reverb device around it. I recently saw Trey Gunn (with King 
Crimson) use some device which I believe to be something like I've described. 
He would hold it in front or behind the neck of his "guitar" at certain 
positions which gave interesting feedback type sounds.

You might also try applying a speaker and microphone to an acoustic guitar 
(or better yet an autoharp). Also try physically playing the spring reverb 
unit with felt tip mallets (at a low level) and talking into it to see if 
that's interesting. I like running sounds through the reverb with no dry 
level in the mix -- really cheesy 50s sci fi stuff!

Hey Ken! I think The Prisoner series is available in sets of three. So that 
would make six total -- if it's $28 for three episodes, that's pretty good!

JB

Re: [motm] stupid electronics tricks

2000-12-28 by J. Larry Hendry

This is one of the most thought provoking questions I have heard in quite
sometime.  Since Eric has pointed out some of the facts and how the guitar
pick up is already your pick up transducer, maybe we should focus on how to
induce a signal into the guitar string, and if doing so would even be
useful.  Certainly, magnetic AC fields could cause the guitar string to
vibrate.   Some type of coil could be constructed to cause that to happen I
suppose.  However, I wonder if it would do anything interesting.  Once the
guitar string starts to vibrate, it would seem to me that the guitar pick up
will still just pick up the sound of the string vibrating at the frequency
determined by its length, tension, and finger placement on the fretboard.  I
cannot imagine that the inducing signal characteristics would have much
effect on the sound.  Still, this is an interesting idea for discussion.  I
would love to hear what some of you more guitar oriented people have to say
on the subject.  I am pretty guitar stupid.
Larry H
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message -----
From: alt-mode <alt_mode@...>
To: <motm@egroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2000 6:43 PM
Subject: Re: [motm] stupid electronics tricks


Celeste,

The output of the MOTM is an electrical signal, not a mechanical signal.
So, it
won't vibrate the string (well, not at the voltages from the MOTM; I'm sure
Stooge
Larry has some amazing high voltage wire bending stories ;).  What you would
want is
the output of a transducer that changes the electrical energy to mechanical
energy.
This would cause the wire to vibrate and yes, it is the basic principle of a
spring
reverb.  A guitar pickup translates mechanical energy (a vibrating string)
to
electrical energy.

Eric

--- Celeste H <celesteh@...> wrote:
>
> i was listening to Alvin Lucier's _Music on a Long Thin Wire_ and i got
> the idea that it might be possible to run the output from MOTM modules
> down guitar strings (Solder the tip of a plug to an aligator clip attached
> to the string by the guitar head, solder ground to a aligator clip
> attached to the bridge) and that perharps the fluctuating signal along
> the wire would cause the magnets in the pickups to bounce around and thus
> generate a signal out through the guitar's jack.
>
> Questions:
>
> Will this hurt the MOTM?
> Will this hurt the guitar?
> Could this harm somebody holding the guitar?  (i was going to play some
> led zepplin but i got a huge shock when i touched the strings!)
>
> Should I put a resistor in here someplace?
>
> Is there a way to electrically seperate the current running down the
> guitar string from the MOTM so that doing something weird like dropping
> the guitar in a bathtub full of saltwater would not hurt the MOTM?  Or
> would it not get hurt anyway?
>
> Is this how spring reverb works?  (now with string reverb!)
>
> thanks,
> Celeste
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> celesteh@...   http://www.casaninja.com/celesteh
>                                http://www.mp3.com/celesteh
>
>
>
>
>


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Re: [motm] stupid electronics tricks

2000-12-28 by alt-mode

> First, is this Lucier piece available now? BTW, I never was able to get that 
> Henry "Music for a Door and a Sigh" since it is now out of print (sigh).
> 

A nearly 7 minute edit of the Lucier piece is available on the 3 CD collection "Ohm:
the early gurus of electronic music: 1848-1980" from Elipsis Arts.  This is a very
cool collection that is an excellent reference history of electronic music.  It is
just a taste of lots of different artists; some more enjoyable than others IMO but a
great retrospective with everyone from Clara Rockmore through John Cage, Varese,
Stockhousen, Raymond Scott, all the way up to Brian Eno.  I must say that the Eno
stuff sounds pretty weak against the early stuff.  Some of it is truly amazing what
folks did with just some oscillators and tape recorders in the 50s and early 60s! 
Hugh Le Caine's "Dripsody" from 1955 puts most modern sampler work to shame...

I ordered my copy on-line from Elipsis Arts.  I can't find the web site, but you can
probably find it if you search the AH archives at www.midiwall.com.

Eric



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Re: [motm] stupid electronics tricks

2000-12-28 by baron swodeck

>If I understand what your trying to do, it would be easier with a e-bow. 
>It's all I use to play guitar. You can gat crazy harmonics and feedback if 
>you abuse it enough. Michael Brook has a system called infinite guitar that 
>works as an e-bow under all the strings so you can sustain chords. 
>Fernandes makes guitars with the sustainer system that does the same thing, 
>it's on my wish list. There's also something called a sustainiac, I think 
>it's like the sustainer. The e-bow is why I want a pitch-to-cv converter, 
>oh The noise I could make...
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: Celeste H <celesteh@...>
>Reply-To: motm@egroups.com
>To: motm <motm@egroups.com>
>Subject: [motm] stupid electronics tricks
>Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 18:13:05 -0600 (CST)
>
>
>i was listening to Alvin Lucier's _Music on a Long Thin Wire_ and i got
>the idea that it might be possible to run the output from MOTM modules
>down guitar strings (Solder the tip of a plug to an aligator clip attached
>to the string by the guitar head, solder ground to a aligator clip
>attached to the bridge) and that perharps the fluctuating signal along
>the wire would cause the magnets in the pickups to bounce around and thus
>generate a signal out through the guitar's jack.
>
>Questions:
>
>Will this hurt the MOTM?
>Will this hurt the guitar?
>Could this harm somebody holding the guitar?  (i was going to play some
>led zepplin but i got a huge shock when i touched the strings!)
>
>Should I put a resistor in here someplace?
>
>Is there a way to electrically seperate the current running down the
>guitar string from the MOTM so that doing something weird like dropping
>the guitar in a bathtub full of saltwater would not hurt the MOTM?  Or
>would it not get hurt anyway?
>
>Is this how spring reverb works?  (now with string reverb!)
>
>thanks,
>Celeste
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------
>celesteh@...   http://www.casaninja.com/celesteh
>                                http://www.mp3.com/celesteh
>

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Re: [motm] stupid electronics tricks

2000-12-28 by jwbarlow@aol.com

Yeah! We were talking about this several months ago -- great collection! I 
think this would be a good overview for anyone with even the most elementary 
interest in the history of EM. I'm interested in having complete copies of 
certain pieces which were important to me. I made mono cassettes copies of 
many EM art pieces from music libraries when I was taking EM classes (these 
libraries always used the best equipment and the finest care you'd expect 
from community colleges and state universities when making tape copies), but 
now I'd enjoy having these on CD if they are available.

I can't believe I missed getting that Henry piece!
JB

In a message dated 12/27/2000 7:18:21 PM, alt_mode@... writes:

>A nearly 7 minute edit of the Lucier piece is available on the 3 CD 
collection
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>"Ohm:
>the early gurus of electronic music: 1848-1980" from Elipsis Arts.  This
>is a very
>cool collection that is an excellent reference history of electronic music.
> It is
>just a taste of lots of different artists; some more enjoyable than others
>IMO but a
>great retrospective

RE: stupid electronics tricks

2000-12-28 by Celeste H

I was thinking that the signal going down the wire would generate an
electric field around the string and that would make the pickups go, just
like the vibrator trick somebody mentioned.  There  it's not the
motor rattling the string that makes sounds, but the electromagnetic
field.  If that's not the case, i could just hook the output to a piezo
speaker or something, and solder that to a string to get mechanical
motion.  I guess running an AC poer line over pickups doesn't do anything,
so electric signals in a string wouldn't either....unless you used them to
power a vibrator motor or something... ;)

I just got _Music on a Long Thin Wire_ for xmas, so it ought to
beavailable someplace.  I think it's out with Lovely Music.

----------------------------------------------------------
celesteh@...   http://www.casaninja.com/celesteh
                               http://www.mp3.com/celesteh

Re: [motm] RE: stupid electronics tricks

2000-12-28 by jwbarlow@aol.com

In a message dated 12/28/2000 11:07:38 AM, celesteh@... writes:

>If that's not the case, i could just hook the output to a piezo
>speaker or something, and solder that to a string to get mechanical
>motion.  

This is a good start on one of the ideas that I mentioned. 

When I was about 8 years old, I accidentally plugged the mic from a tape deck 
into the external speaker output. Suddenly there was music coming out of the 
microphone -- but that is impossible!!!! Of course a speaker and a mic are 
almost exactly the same thing electronically. So how can we induce a string 
to vibrate? Maybe we can just use a guitar PU to generate the electromagnetic 
field which induces the string to move. We would first need to build an 
amplifier module which would be capable of driving the PU impedance of 
approx. 10K ohms. This would probably be a trivial module to build and you 
might be able to drive the PU from a standard MOTM module (1K output). I also 
would buy some of those cheapo EMG PUs from Stewart Macdonald's (I think 
they're about $25) and suspend these over the guitar. I wouldn't just plug in 
a 59 Les Paul with original PAF PUs and see if that worked.


>I just got _Music on a Long Thin Wire_ for xmas, so it ought to
>beavailable someplace.  I think it's out with Lovely Music.


Thanks! I'll look into this.
JB

Re: [motm] RE: stupid electronics tricks

2000-12-28 by J. Larry Hendry

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Celeste H <celesteh@...>
> I was thinking that the signal going down the wire
> would generate an electric field around the string
> and that would make the pickups go
----
Electromagnetic fields can be generated around a wire.  However, what is
required is that current actually pass through the string / wire.  It is the
presence of current in a conductor the creates the EM field.  Simply
applying a signal to one end would not work for two reasons:  1. The current
is not passing through the string  2. the signal is probably not of
sufficient amplitude.

But, that brings up another crazy idea.  How about taking the "post
amplified" synth signal and making one or two of the guitar strings part of
the electrical path between the amp and the speaker.  Since I imagine most
strings are electrically common at a metal bridge, but isolated at the keys,
you could conduct from one key down one string, through the brigde, and back
out another key.

A quick check of an electric guitar I have here yeild from 2 to 6 ohms for
the key-string-bridge-string-key  round trip depending on whether you use
big strings or little ones.

Disclaimer:  This is a stupid electonic trick  Care need to be excercised to
keep a proper load on your amplifier at all times.  And, care needs to be
excercised in the amount of power used.  Even with these small resistances,
I would think it might be possible to actually heat the strings somewhat.

> If that's not the case, i could just hook the output
> to a piezo speaker or something, and solder that
> to a string to get mechanical motion.

Now there is a better idea as speakers are already efficient transducers of
electrical to mechanical energy.  However, I would think you would need
something a little beefier than a piezo or tweeter.

Larry H

Re: [motm] RE: stupid electronics tricks

2000-12-28 by ivancu@aol.com

In a message dated 12/28/00 11:07:20 AM, celesteh@... writes:

<< I was thinking that the signal going down the wire would generate an
electric field around the string and that would make the pickups go >>

You could wind what essentially would be an electromagnet, which would be 
driven by an amplifier which was fed your input from the MOTM (or whatever 
you like).  If brought near your guitar strings it would in effect make the 
strings the moving part of a transducer (speaker).  Essentially how a pickup 
works, but in reverse.  Don't forget, speakers can be microphones too!

Ivan

Re: [motm] RE: stupid electronics tricks

2000-12-28 by ivancu@aol.com

In a message dated 12/28/00 11:37:57 AM, jlarryh@... writes:

<< A quick check of an electric guitar I have here yeild from 2 to 6 ohms for
the key-string-bridge-string-key  round trip depending on whether you use
big strings or little ones. >>

That's 2 to 6 ohms DC resistance.  The key would be to check the impedance of 
the strings at the frequency being used.  I would bet that a string is 
essentially a non-inductive conductor in an AC circuit.

Ivan

Re: [motm] RE: stupid electronics tricks

2000-12-28 by Frank Vanaman

Hi Y'all!

Well, since this thread is still going, here's something else that's
sorta neat, though a one-trick pony:

Some time ago, I had a set of tuned steel bars (like glockenspiel or
celesta bars- mine came from a pipe organ 'harp' stop) which were
mounted over resonators. Obviously you could thwack them with something
relatively soft and get a sound like a vibraphone with the motors off,
or with something hard and get a glockenspiel 'tink'.

My dad and I had some electromagnets, basically iron cores with many,
many turns of wire around them, and we took a top octave generator
(50204), fed into a series of divide-by-two dividers, which then fed
what was basically a transistor pair-in-a-chip (ULN-2003?), which in
turn was connected to the electromagnet. You could select the
appropriate note, and drive the coil with a square wave-- holding it
over the center of the correct bar would cause the bar to vibrate at
it's fundamental pitch. Made an eerie sinewave voice which would
gradually build and then ring for a bit once the current was switched
off. 

We never made it into a keyboard instrument, but it was certainly an
interesting sound. Using frequencies other than a bar's fundamental
pitch tended to have little or no effect, though we didn't go to a lot
of trouble messing around with harmonics...

Fun though!

Frank Vanaman
Baltimore

Re: [motm] RE: stupid electronics tricks

2000-12-29 by J. Larry Hendry

---- Original Message ----- 
> From: <ivancu@...>
> That's 2 to 6 ohms DC resistance.

Right, which will be at least close to total Z.

> The key would be to check the impedance 
> of the strings at the frequency being used.  
> I would bet that a string is essentially a
> non-inductive conductor in an AC circuit.

Well, there is no such thing as a non-inductive
conductor in a AC circuit.  However, I do admit that
the string Z would be much more R than L compared
to the speaker coil.  

Remember, this is all under the guise of "stupid electronic
tricks" rather than proven or working plans.  That's
what makes the speculation fun.

LH

Re: [motm] RE: stupid electronics tricks

2000-12-29 by Al Wagner

Hmmm.. A guitar string has resisitance... I wonder... What if you had a CV circuit where the positive end was connected to a guitar string, and that guitar string was streched over a metal strip of the same length connected to the negative end... As you pressed the guitar string to make contact with the metal strip wouldn't the amount of resitance increase and decrease as you moved up a down the string... Would we be able to create a psuedo ribbon controller? Just thinking about Del Dettmars axe again...
Al
----- Original Message -----
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: ivancu@...
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2000 6:20 PM
Subject: Re: [motm] RE: stupid electronics tricks


In a message dated 12/28/00 11:37:57 AM, jlarryh@... writes:

<< A quick check of an electric guitar I have here yeild from 2 to 6 ohms for
the key-string-bridge-string-key round trip depending on whether you use
big strings or little ones. >>

That's 2 to 6 ohms DC resistance. The key would be to check the impedance of
the strings at the frequency being used. I would bet that a string is
essentially a non-inductive conductor in an AC circuit.

Ivan

Re: [motm] RE: stupid electronics tricks

2000-12-29 by jwbarlow@aol.com

Very cool, Frank. Does this device still exist? Of course this set up (minus 
the top octave generator) would be perfect for what we've been talking about 
here. Are these electromagnets available anywhere?

JB

In a message dated 12/28/2000 4:31:02 PM, fvanaman@... writes:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>My dad and I had some electromagnets, basically iron cores with many,
>many turns of wire around them, and we took a top octave generator
>(50204), fed into a series of divide-by-two dividers, which then fed
>what was basically a transistor pair-in-a-chip (ULN-2003?), which in
>turn was connected to the electromagnet. You could select the
>appropriate note, and drive the coil with a square wave-- holding it
>over the center of the correct bar would cause the bar to vibrate at
>it's fundamental pitch.

Re: [motm] RE: stupid electronics tricks

2000-12-29 by J. Larry Hendry

It would seem to me that the accuracy would not be so hot since the resistance is so low. I would also think a guitar string might vary significantly from one to another.
Larry H
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message -----
From: Al Wagner
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2000 8:57 PM
Subject: Re: [motm] RE: stupid electronics tricks

Hmmm.. A guitar string has resisitance... I wonder... What if you had a CV circuit where the positive end was connected to a guitar string, and that guitar string was streched over a metal strip of the same length connected to the negative end... As you pressed the guitar string to make contact with the metal strip wouldn't the amount of resitance increase and decrease as you moved up a down the string... Would we be able to create a psuedo ribbon controller? Just thinking about Del Dettmars axe again...
Al

Re: [motm] RE: stupid electronics tricks

2000-12-29 by norman fay

Amazing that no-one's mentioned this - the "Ondes Martenot" 1930's
electronic keyboard was used with a couple of "speciality" speakers -
the "palme" had a bunch of tuned wires running across it and there was
another speaker which was attached to a cymbal, all in the interests of
quirky sound colouration.  If you get thee chance, check out Olivier
Messaien's works "Turangalila Symphonie" and "Trois Petits liturgies
pour la prescence divine" (I may have spelled that last one incorrectly
;)
Apparently radiohead may have used one on some recent gigs, tho' I
haven't seen any evidence...

Hey, perhaps @ some point in the distant future we might get a MOTM
ondes martenot? ;)

typing "ondes martenot" into google did turn up a couple of hits, but
nothing as detailed as I'd have liked...

best etc
-- 
norman fay

Re: [motm] RE: stupid electronics tricks

2000-12-29 by Frank Vanaman

Hello again!

jwbarlow@... wrote:
> 
> Very cool, Frank. Does this device still exist? .... Are these electromagnets > available anywhere?
> 
> JB
> 

Now that I think of it, I think I may still have at least part of the
breadboard we used for this.

I'll try to look over the weekend and see what I can dig up. As I
recall,
other than the chips themselves and the interconnections, there were
very
few other components on the board. Obviously the ULN-2003 was just an
on-off
device, so using a waveform other than a square wave would not work with
this configuration. We never tried any sort of PWM on the signal either.
Since we were really exciting a steel bar, I'm not sure that the use of
something other than a 50/50 square wave would be very helpful, and the
only
change you would notice would be a drop in the amplitude of the ringing
of
the bar as the PW departed from 50/50...?

I used a couple of different electromagnets which were spares from my
stash
of pipe organ stuff. There were smaller magnets which are used to switch
small pneumatic 'circuits', and larger ones which were used to directly
open
channels which supplied pressurized air to the feet of the pipes. The
little
magnets were about 90 0hms to 180 Ohms; the larger ones were from about
60
Ohms to 30 Ohms. A dim recollection I have is that the bigger (lower
resistance) magnets did not always produce dramatically more powerful
results.

I have a few of the smaller (90 Ohm) magnets kicking around, if anyone's
interested in experimenting. No extra spare steel bars that I can think
of,
though...

I have a complete set of steel bars over resonators with rotating vanes
in
them (i.e., a vibraphone) from a pipe organ, and once my pipe organ
project
starts moving, I'll add an all-electric striker action to this... and
now
that I'm thinking about the old experiments, it might be nice to have a
set
of magnets which would excite the bars without them being struck, for an
eternally sustainable vibraphone effect! Hmmm...

Frank

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