MOTM

Something Barlow said triggered a dormant brain cell, & I remembered 
something from a long ago eno interview about him having set up an array of 
different length tubes in front of a speaker cabinet to get different sound 
colorations.  I may be remembering it wrong, but that's the gist as I 
recall.

It has the advantage of giving you more options in tuning your resonances, & 
is probably cheap than cello mutilation.

tomr
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

I hope no one is terribly bothered that we are so OT here.

In a message dated 12/28/2000 2:32:44 PM, binky_beetlebaum@... writes:

>I remembered 
>something from a long ago eno interview about him having set up an array
>of 
>different length tubes in front of a speaker cabinet to get different sound
>colorations.  I may be remembering it wrong, but that's the gist as I 
>recall.

I've never heard this but it sounds possible. It might be worth trying out.

Yet another story:
In 1982, I went to see the Calarts Experimental Music Festival. At their 
whine and cheese Gala Opening of the event, there was an installation which 
really caught my ear. It involved two lengths of aluminum tube (one was about 
5 feet and the other about 4 feet, if I recall correctly). Between these two 
tubes, which were in parallel about four inches apart, was a beater mallet 
kind of thing which struck each tube about once every second or two. It 
seemed like the beater was striking the tubes at irregular intervals (of 
time). 

What made this so unique was that there was presumably a small speaker at the 
one end of each tube. The sound that was fed to the speakers was presumably 
from microphones hidden around this installation or somewhere in the gallery. 
The sounds that emanated from the open end of the tubes as one walked by 
(they were roughly at ear level) were clearly human speech but were 
unintelligible since the tubes resonating effect acted like a filter which 
overwhelmed most of the characteristics of speech. It was really impressive.

I know others on this list are interested in experimental musical instruments 
which are not electronic. Does anyone know if there is an e-list for 
constructing such instruments? I have a lot of rather simple questions about 
building wind driven instruments (like the Aeolian harp and wind blow 
resonators) but no idea where to find the answers.

Anybody?
JB

In a message dated 00-12-28 17:32:35 EST, you write:

<< eno interview about him having set up an array of 
 different length tubes in front of a speaker cabinet to get different sound 
 colorations.  >>


hello!
well, i can`t address myself to the attribution from eno but way back in the 
late sixties, there was an article in electronic music review by robert 
erickson ( if i remember correctly) about this same sort of thing. i`ll have 
to dig the issue out and take another look.  i even recall something from 
popular electronics or a similar mag or the same late sixties vintage about 
doing something similar to a microphone with straws cut to different lengths 
and harnessed up to the mic element.  even something as baroque as a mic and 
speaker and different rooms, closets, carpeted, bare tile, etc. etc. offer 
weird possibilities. listen to robert ashleys "i am sitting in a room" for an 
example of that idea taken to the extreme.  
best,
dave v.

Many years ago I used to hang out with an older guy that owned a music store
(he was trying to get a "Hawaiian" band started as I remember). He told me
that in the earliest days of recording studios, they were typically built
above things like huge cellars or abandoned subway tunnels and things. Mics
& speakers tied to the console were dangled down into these big, complex
chambers and there was your reverb!

With the advent of clean, controllable electronic ambience, the trend
through the latter part of the century (soon to be 'last' century...yikes!)
was of course to record dry and then add the reverb in the mix. Then some
producers (I remember Daniel Lanois taking a lot of bows for this) came up
with the radical idea that perhaps ambience could be recorded along with the
music in the performance space (I guess they had never heard of orchestral
music before...).

I always find the idea of introducing complex behaviors into electronic
music enticing, and letting a little "nature" seep into the circuit sure
fits the bill. In the spring reverb days, we took it for granted that you
would have a big tank full of springs on the floor a few feet away from the
console... why not return to that idea? Having a generic 'resonator' module
which is basically the driver/receiver from a reverb unit, but where the
'springs' can be anything you want? I imagine that some clever physical
design could be devised to make easily swappable "cartridges" for the tank.
Loads of fun experimentation could be had.

To go further, perhaps the receive end could have some kind of DSP to do
time/pitch-shifting, etc., to extend the effects of the resonators (make
them sound "bigger").

http://www.ief.u-psud.fr/~thierry/history/gray/gray1.html

Fun in your tub, electronic music style.

Ivan

On 29 Dec 2000 motm@egroups.com wrote:

> hello!
> well, i can`t address myself to the attribution from eno but way back in the 
> late sixties, there was an article in electronic music review by robert 
> erickson ( if i remember correctly) about this same sort of thing. i`ll have 
> to dig the issue out and take another look.  i even recall something from 
> popular electronics or a similar mag or the same late sixties vintage about 
> doing something similar to a microphone with straws cut to different lengths 
> and harnessed up to the mic element.  even something as baroque as a mic and 
> speaker and different rooms, closets, carpeted, bare tile, etc. etc. offer 
> weird possibilities. listen to robert ashleys "i am sitting in a room" for an 
> example of that idea taken to the extreme.  
> best,
> dave v.

I think you mean Alvin Lucier.


I tried the pipes in front of speakers thing for a performance piece once.
didn't work shockingly well, but the source sound was interesting, so it
was still interesting to listen to.

http://www.casaninja.com/concert/lizard.html

I dropped the sheet metal part and it turned out that the speakers in the
pipes were loud enough so that we didn't want to have mics in ther other
end for addtional amplication.  I think this would be more interesting
recorded than played live.

----------------------------------------------------------
celesteh@...   http://www.casaninja.com/celesteh
                               http://www.mp3.com/celesteh

In a message dated 00-12-29 09:09:48 EST, you write:

<<  why not return to that idea?  >>


ken,
do they still make plate and gold foil reverbs?
years back, i had a really "echo-y" stairwell in my old house and i had a 
speaker mounted on the floor  and a mic that hung through an eye bolt from 
the ceiling so i could adjust its distance from the floor / speaker. worked 
really well for something "free" as i had the mic and speaker on hand at the 
time. sadly, current house is a one level and lacks any stairwells at all. 
all the rooms are pretty dead too so even trying this with the back room 
probably wouldn`t be useful.
best,
dave v.

In a message dated 00-12-29 18:51:29 EST, you write:

<< I think you mean Alvin Lucier.
  >>


celeste,
you are correct !!!  OOPS !!!!
i went and pulled out my old issues of "source" and checked out the 10" 
lp',,s that came with some of them and ashley was "wolfman" and lucier was 
"i`m sitting in a room".  gotta remember to check my sources before talking. 
on the up side, it had been a long time since i listened to these and pulling 
them out to verify my error gave me the excuse to do so. totally "60`s" but 
very cool stuff in many ways. makes me wonder sometimes if we`ve advanced at 
all since then. just to round out the experience, i listened to " I of IV" by 
pauline oliveros. also good stuff.  got a pile of old lp`s i`m planning to 
listen to tomorrow. its been too long since i heard some of them.
best,
dave

In a message dated 00-12-29 13:48:57 EST, you write:

<< Fun in your tub, electronic music style.
  >>


ivan,
interesting stuff.....
best,
dave v.

To add to the fray, check out this site:
http://www.silophone.net/eng/about.html

( this is the general English language description with a photo )
This is an unused grain silo in Montreal that has been wired up with
speakers and mikes and people are invited to upload sounds - awesome reverb
time!

The parent site is a bit to "cute" for my tastes in web design - there are a
lot of rollover buttons but they are hidden and you have to mouse around
before you find them all.  Also, many of the buttons offer both English and
French options and there is a _very_ fine dividing line between where the
pointer should be to select.  Minor nits... :-)
http://www.silophone.net/index.html


The idea itself is awesome and the implementation seems to be really solid
( corporate sponsors, etc... )


Dave - who is taking a break from assembling a number of MOTMs and thinking
about a 2M gallon water cistern up in Port Townsend, WA - a number of people
have recorded in it ( check out the Deep Listening Band on the New Albion
label ( http://www.newalbion.com/ )
http://www.newalbion.com/NA022/ and
http://www.newalbion.com/NA076/



-> -----Original Message-----
-> From: Tkacs, Ken [mailto:ken.tkacs@...]
-> Sent: Friday, December 29, 2000 6:01 AM
-> To: 'motm@egroups.com'
-> Subject: RE: [motm] resonating bodies
->
->
->
-> Many years ago I used to hang out with an older guy that
-> owned a music store
-> (he was trying to get a "Hawaiian" band started as I
-> remember). He told me
-> that in the earliest days of recording studios, they were
-> typically built
-> above things like huge cellars or abandoned subway tunnels
-> and things. Mics
-> & speakers tied to the console were dangled down into these
-> big, complex
-> chambers and there was your reverb!
->
-> With the advent of clean, controllable electronic ambience, the trend
-> through the latter part of the century (soon to be 'last'
-> century...yikes!)
-> was of course to record dry and then add the reverb in the
-> mix. Then some
-> producers (I remember Daniel Lanois taking a lot of bows for
-> this) came up
-> with the radical idea that perhaps ambience could be
-> recorded along with the
-> music in the performance space (I guess they had never heard
-> of orchestral
-> music before...).
->
-> I always find the idea of introducing complex behaviors into
-> electronic
-> music enticing, and letting a little "nature" seep into the
-> circuit sure
-> fits the bill. In the spring reverb days, we took it for
-> granted that you
-> would have a big tank full of springs on the floor a few
-> feet away from the
-> console... why not return to that idea? Having a generic
-> 'resonator' module
-> which is basically the driver/receiver from a reverb unit,
-> but where the
-> 'springs' can be anything you want? I imagine that some
-> clever physical
-> design could be devised to make easily swappable
-> "cartridges" for the tank.
-> Loads of fun experimentation could be had.
->
-> To go further, perhaps the receive end could have some kind
-> of DSP to do
-> time/pitch-shifting, etc., to extend the effects of the
-> resonators (make
-> them sound "bigger").
->
-> -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor
-> -------------------------~-~>
-> Big News - eGroups is becoming Yahoo! Groups
-> Click here for more details:
-> http://click.egroups.com/1/10801/0/_/529958/_/978098496/
-> -------------------------------------------------------------
-> --------_->
->
->
->

oh me oh my,
simple sequencin' with multiple open browsers.  select samples to 
play and then start pagin' through and sendin' 'em off as fast as you 
can.  too much fun...
can't tell how many i can get to actually sound off at once, but 
could make out 2 for sure.  beethoven's moonlight sonata and thunder. 
 couldn't really make out the other 2 i selected in the wash of 
sound, though.
thanks dave
peace,
doc
ah, someone else just hit it...


--- In motm@egroups.com, "David Halliday" <dh@s...> wrote:
> To add to the fray, check out this site:
> http://www.silophone.net/eng/about.html
> 
> ( this is the general English language description with a photo )
> This is an unused grain silo in Montreal that has been wired up with
> speakers and mikes and people are invited to upload sounds - 
awesome reverb
> time!
> 
> The parent site is a bit to "cute" for my tastes in web design - 
there are a
> lot of rollover buttons but they are hidden and you have to mouse 
around
> before you find them all.  Also, many of the buttons offer both 
English and
> French options and there is a _very_ fine dividing line between 
where the
> pointer should be to select.  Minor nits... :-)
> http://www.silophone.net/index.html
> 
> 
> The idea itself is awesome and the implementation seems to be 
really solid
> ( corporate sponsors, etc... )
> 
> 
> Dave - who is taking a break from assembling a number of MOTMs and 
thinking
> about a 2M gallon water cistern up in Port Townsend, WA - a number 
of people
> have recorded in it ( check out the Deep Listening Band on the New 
Albion

> label ( http://www.newalbion.com/ )
> http://www.newalbion.com/NA022/ and
> http://www.newalbion.com/NA076/
>

Hi John n All !

Check out :

http://www.windworld.com/emi/

Experimental Musical Instruments homepage .

Maybe gives some answers .

And be careful playing with those fireworks ;^)


Keep 'em oscillating :)


Hugo
=

Can everyone remember to put a OT:  for off topic in there subjects lines
when sending a list mail with off topic content.  This helps people not
interested use selective deleting much more efficiently.
Happy New Year
Jim

Hugo Haesaert wrote:

> Hi John n All !
>
> Check out :
>
> http://www.windworld.com/emi/
>
> Experimental Musical Instruments homepage .
>
> Maybe gives some answers .
>
> And be careful playing with those fireworks ;^)
>
> Keep 'em oscillating :)
>
> Hugo
> =
>