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Wet or dry

Wet or dry

2008-02-03 by Mark Pring

Whilst messing about with the dreaded M-Tron, I
started to wonder about the pros and cons of wet or
dry mellotron voices. In its natural state I would say
the mellotron voices are very dry indeed but when used
for recording by most artists they sound pretty wet,
especially string sounds. 

Until recently I would have definitely have put myself
in the wet camp. But I am beginning to think that the
problem with the wet sound, to my ears, is that as you
lose attack and add decay, although it starts to sound
more realistic, you lose that  choppiness that makes
it sound like a mellotron.

Played dry there is no way you can think you are
listening to anything other than a tron, I
particulalrly like that incisiveness that comes from
playing staccato chords.

Any thoughts?

Mark

#1565 at present producing only the very dry sound of
the patter of tiny feet.


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Re: [newmellotrongroup] Wet or dry

2008-02-03 by Bruce Daily

Hi Mark-

   I believe that the attack of the sounds is an
issue.  The M400's have spoiled us.  On a good set of
tapes one can adjust the starts until the attack on
all tracks is just right.

   However, the MK2 and M300 probably developed enough
uneven tape stretch over time that the starts didn't
line up anymore.  So, re-align the starts.  Cycle to a
different station, and the individual starts are
uneven again.  To rectify this (somewhat), line up the
starts so all voices are heard instantly on every key
on every station, but loose some attacks in the
process(An possible example of this is on John
Lennon's early recording of "Strawberry Fields"
("Anthology 2")where a tron brass can be heard at the
end with little or no attack).  Live with it, layer
it, maybe use a volume pedal, and add reverb to cover
the problem.  I bet that many recording engineers used
their own standard formulas for Tron processing, and
just kept using them on the M400's.  I think this is
what we are used to hearing on many recordings.

  I like the dry sound once in a while.  I finally got
a little Alesis mixer w/reverb (effects), and it does
change the "feel", which I also like.  PLUS, the
effect creates a stereo effect, which is nice.

My take.  Rip it apart.

  -Bruce Daily
  #1221 (with planks for feet while the paint dries on
the proper feet.  Yes, the beastie could downhill ski
right now!!)

  
--- Mark Pring <markpringnz@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Whilst messing about with the dreaded M-Tron, I
> started to wonder about the pros and cons of wet or
> dry mellotron voices. In its natural state I would
> say
> the mellotron voices are very dry indeed but when
> used
> for recording by most artists they sound pretty wet,
> especially string sounds. 
> 
> Until recently I would have definitely have put
> myself
> in the wet camp. But I am beginning to think that
> the
> problem with the wet sound, to my ears, is that as
> you
> lose attack and add decay, although it starts to
> sound
> more realistic, you lose that  choppiness that makes
> it sound like a mellotron.
> 
> Played dry there is no way you can think you are
> listening to anything other than a tron, I
> particulalrly like that incisiveness that comes from
> playing staccato chords.
> 
> Any thoughts?
> 
> Mark
> 
> #1565 at present producing only the very dry sound
> of
> the patter of tiny feet.
> 
> 
>      
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
> Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page. 
> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
> 



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Re: Wet or dry

2008-02-03 by partune

Interesting topic. While I await restoration of my recently acquired 
M400 #872, I will admit to using M-Tron, The Michael Pinder CD Rom 
and an old Emu Vintage Keys Plus primarily for the choir and string 
sounds. The sound of the choir tapes when I first heard Genesis' 
Selling England By The Pound back in 1973 drove me to musical nirvana 
and changed my musical life forever! To me, how the voices need to 
fit into the mix determines what I use. I have had great results 
using M-Tron drenched in Sonar reverbs and delays as well as totally 
dry Pinder CD 8-Voice Choir. I'm totally looking forward to using 
#872 through any and all of my sonic toys.  

Regards,
partune



--- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com, Mark Pring 
<markpringnz@...> wrote:
>
> Whilst messing about with the dreaded M-Tron, I
> started to wonder about the pros and cons of wet or
> dry mellotron voices. In its natural state I would say
> the mellotron voices are very dry indeed but when used
> for recording by most artists they sound pretty wet,
> especially string sounds. 
> 
> Until recently I would have definitely have put myself
> in the wet camp. But I am beginning to think that the
> problem with the wet sound, to my ears, is that as you
> lose attack and add decay, although it starts to sound
> more realistic, you lose that  choppiness that makes
> it sound like a mellotron.
> 
> Played dry there is no way you can think you are
> listening to anything other than a tron, I
> particulalrly like that incisiveness that comes from
> playing staccato chords.
> 
> Any thoughts?
> 
> Mark
> 
> #1565 at present producing only the very dry sound of
> the patter of tiny feet.
> 
> 
>       
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Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page. 
> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
>

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Wet or dry

2008-02-03 by lsf5275@aol.com

In a message dated 2/2/2008 7:11:56 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
markpringnz@yahoo.com writes:

I
particulalrly like that incisiveness that comes from
playing  staccato chords.

Any thoughts?

Mark



That is so awesome. I am so happy for you. At least that's what I was  
feeling at the moment.
 
Personally, I like to play mine through all sorts of effects. I especially  
like the Roland Space Echo. I like the flexibility of doing whatever I want. 
I'm  not very particulalr.
 
Frank



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Re: [newmellotrongroup] Wet or dry

2008-02-03 by lsf5275@aol.com

In a message dated 2/2/2008 8:24:11 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
pocotron@yahoo.com writes:

Hi  Mark-

I believe that the attack of the sounds is an
issue. The  M400's have spoiled us. On a good set of
tapes one can adjust the starts  until the attack on
all tracks is just right.

However, the MK2 and  M300 probably developed enough
uneven tape stretch over time that the  starts didn't
line up anymore. So, re-align the starts. Cycle to  a
different station, and the individual starts are
uneven again. To  rectify this (somewhat), line up the
starts so all voices are heard  instantly on every key
on every station, but loose some attacks in  the
process(An possible example of this is on John
Lennon's early  recording of "Strawberry Fields"
("Anthology 2")where a tron brass can be  heard at the
end with little or no attack). Live with it, layer
it,  maybe use a volume pedal, and add reverb to cover
the problem. I bet that  many recording engineers used
their own standard formulas for Tron  processing, and
just kept using them on the M400's. I think this is
what  we are used to hearing on many recordings.

I like the dry sound once in  a while. I finally got
a little Alesis mixer w/reverb (effects), and it  does
change the "feel", which I also like. PLUS, the
effect creates a  stereo effect, which is nice.

My take. Rip it apart.

-Bruce  Daily
#1221 (with planks for feet while the paint dries on
the proper  feet. Yes, the beastie could downhill ski
right now!!)
 




Now I feel like a dick for making fun 



**************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.     
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48)

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Wet or dry

2008-02-03 by lsf5275@aol.com

In a message dated 2/3/2008 2:12:18 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
lsf5275@aol.com writes:


My  take. Rip it apart.

-Bruce Daily
#1221 (with planks for feet while  the paint dries on
the proper feet. Yes, the beastie could downhill  ski
right now!!)
 




Now I feel like a dick for making fun 



 
Oop, I've recovered.



**************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.     
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48)

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Wet or dry

2008-02-03 by kinchmusic@aol.com

In a message dated 03/02/2008 07:09:15 GMT Standard Time, lsf5275@aol.com  
writes:

I'm not very particulalr.


Yeah I heard that about you Frank. LOL.
Andy K

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Wet or dry

2008-02-04 by Bruce Daily

--- lsf5275@aol.com wrote:

>  
> In a message dated 2/3/2008 2:12:18 A.M. Eastern
> Standard Time,  
> lsf5275@aol.com writes:
> 
> 
> My  take. Rip it apart.
> 
> -Bruce Daily
> #1221 (with planks for feet while  the paint dries
> on
> the proper feet. Yes, the beastie could downhill 
> ski
> right now!!)
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I feel like a dick for making fun 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> Oop, I've recovered.
> 
> 
> 

Frank, I believe lithium will help this.  :-)


  -Bruce D.



      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page. 
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Re: [newmellotrongroup] Wet or dry

2008-02-04 by lsf5275@aol.com

In a message dated 2/4/2008 2:25:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
pocotron@yahoo.com writes:

Frank,  I believe lithium will help this. :-)




Lithium? As in grease?
 
Nah, I stopped getting lubricated a nearly a year ago. All my wacky  behavior 
comes from sleep deprivation, anxiety and the fact that my clients  annoy me 
14 hours a day. (well, really 24 hours a day, but I often work at least  14.



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48)

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Wet or dry

2008-02-04 by jonesalley

Boy, was I wrong. I thought he meant to take a sock and fill it with a bunch of lithium and beat you with it!
Show quoted textHide quoted text
Frank, I believe lithium will help this. :-)
Lithium? As in grease?

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Wet or dry

2008-02-05 by lsf5275@aol.com

In a message dated 2/4/2008 5:57:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
jonesalley@cox.net writes:

Boy, was I wrong.  I thought he meant to take a  sock and fill it with a 
bunch of lithium and beat you with it!

 
Frank, I believe lithium will help this.  :-)




Lithium? As in grease?


 

Can I please have a time out? I love this list but I can't keep up right  
now. I have to sign off for a while. I will respond to individual emails. 



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