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Prophet 10 dead

Prophet 10 dead

2008-05-30 by fsimon100

Was curiouse if anyone can offer help. I bought a dead P10 no lights 
or anything. The processor is good. I put logic analyzer on decoder 
output and see ROM1 (Y0) and RAM (Y5)(which I believe is the scratch 
pad memory)active at start up. All address buses and Data buses are 
active. I am not certain the algorithm. A flow chart would be nice or 
some help with what I should see at some critical points. I am 
wondering if there is a chance the ROMs lost programming and how would 
I know. Even if they did shouldn't lights and/or display come on. And 
yes the power supplies are good.

Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Prophet 10 dead

2008-05-30 by Roy J. Tellason

On Friday 30 May 2008 08:58, fsimon100 wrote:
> I am not certain the algorithm. A flow chart would be nice or some help with
> what I should see at some critical points.

I sure wish that the manufacturers would have provided this sort of info when 
things started going digital...

"How's it supposed to act" mainly.  Too damn much "that's proprietary" going 
around,  that's for sure.  :-(

-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin

Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Prophet 10 dead

2008-06-01 by Frank Simon

I did find a chip pulling down DB4 on U311 it is a 6514 4K CMOS RAM. Thank god for IC sockets. The only problem I'm a little confused on a cross for it. It appears obsolete. It is called D444C on the chip and 6514 on schematic. Can anyone offer advice on a cross.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message -----
From: fsimon100
Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 8:58 AM
Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Prophet 10 dead

Was curiouse if anyone can offer help. I bought a dead P10 no lights
or anything. The processor is good. I put logic analyzer on decoder
output and see ROM1 (Y0) and RAM (Y5)(which I believe is the scratch
pad memory)active at start up. All address buses and Data buses are
active. I am not certain the algorithm. A flow chart would be nice or
some help with what I should see at some critical points. I am
wondering if there is a chance the ROMs lost programming and how would
I know. Even if they did shouldn't lights and/or display come on. And
yes the power supplies are good.

TR-606 Hi-hat problems

2008-06-01 by Philip

Hi guys..bought a supposedly fully working 606 of off
eBay to find it has problems...

1. It wouldn't work with an AC adaptor, batteries
only. Anyway I fixed that, was some shorted caps and a
bad regulator. It had some battery damage too around
that area.

Next job..the Hi-hats and cymbal sounded really weird,
kind of flutey and going up and down very slowly in
pitch. Scoped it and found a bad 4558...fixed? Well
sort of, the cymbal sounds fine, the hi-hat sounds ok
except that the open hi-hat sounds identical to the
closed hi-hat i.e. not open with a long decay. 

All the transistors in the hi-hat circuit check out
fine. I\ufffdve changed the 2904 op amp, the oscillator IC
is fine (4584). The trigger is fine from the CPU...
The tempo clock signal is ok as well to the Hi-hats. I
thought maybe the closed hi hat trigger was triggering
the open too or something. 

So I moved to caps. I\ufffdve changed every single
Electrolytic marked in the hi-hats section. No change.
I notice one thing. If I change the value of cap C45 I
can make the open hi-hat decay longer but I\ufffdm moving
it well away from the stated 1uf it\ufffds supposed to be.

One other thing; when you start a pattern off the
first hi hat beat is raised in pitch also when you
switch between write mode or play mode, the pitch of
all the cymbals, hi-hats change. You get a higher
pitch in play mode.

So to recap I basically have an open hi-hat that
sounds identical to the closed hi-hat. And some weird
pitch change stuff going on.

Im looking at it again tonight so if anyone has any
ideas, shoot.

Thanks, Phil.



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Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Prophet 10 dead

2008-06-01 by Philip

A quick google of spec sheet reveals that it is
basically a cmos 2114 so you'd be looking at a 5114 or
a 5514 and variations of that. See this is where the
fluke 9010a comes in handy..It can check and resolve
this kind of problem in minuites :)

Thanks, Phil.


--- Frank Simon <fsimon001@...> wrote:

> I did find a chip pulling down DB4 on U311 it is a
> 6514 4K CMOS RAM. Thank god for IC sockets. The only
> problem I'm a little confused on a cross for it. It
> appears obsolete. It is called D444C on the chip and
> 6514 on schematic. Can anyone offer advice on a
> cross.
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: fsimon100 
>   To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 8:58 AM
>   Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Prophet 10 dead
> 
> 
>   Was curiouse if anyone can offer help. I bought a
> dead P10 no lights 
>   or anything. The processor is good. I put logic
> analyzer on decoder 
>   output and see ROM1 (Y0) and RAM (Y5)(which I
> believe is the scratch 
>   pad memory)active at start up. All address buses
> and Data buses are 
>   active. I am not certain the algorithm. A flow
> chart would be nice or 
>   some help with what I should see at some critical
> points. I am 
>   wondering if there is a chance the ROMs lost
> programming and how would 
>   I know. Even if they did shouldn't lights and/or
> display come on. And 
>   yes the power supplies are good.
> 
> 
> 
>    



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Re: TR-606 Hi-hat problems

2008-06-01 by eggwheatis

PS:

Also having a cap in the C46 position seems to do nothing..ie it
sounds the same whether the caps in place or not. 


--- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, Philip <eggwheatis@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Hi guys..bought a supposedly fully working 606 of off
> eBay to find it has problems...
> 
> 1. It wouldn't work with an AC adaptor, batteries
> only. Anyway I fixed that, was some shorted caps and a
> bad regulator. It had some battery damage too around
> that area.
> 
> Next job..the Hi-hats and cymbal sounded really weird,
> kind of flutey and going up and down very slowly in
> pitch. Scoped it and found a bad 4558...fixed? Well
> sort of, the cymbal sounds fine, the hi-hat sounds ok
> except that the open hi-hat sounds identical to the
> closed hi-hat i.e. not open with a long decay. 
> 
> All the transistors in the hi-hat circuit check out
> fine. I've changed the 2904 op amp, the oscillator IC
> is fine (4584). The trigger is fine from the CPU...
> The tempo clock signal is ok as well to the Hi-hats. I
> thought maybe the closed hi hat trigger was triggering
> the open too or something. 
> 
> So I moved to caps. I've changed every single
> Electrolytic marked in the hi-hats section. No change.
> I notice one thing. If I change the value of cap C45 I
> can make the open hi-hat decay longer but I'm moving
> it well away from the stated 1uf it's supposed to be.
> 
> One other thing; when you start a pattern off the
> first hi hat beat is raised in pitch also when you
> switch between write mode or play mode, the pitch of
> all the cymbals, hi-hats change. You get a higher
> pitch in play mode.
> 
> So to recap I basically have an open hi-hat that
> sounds identical to the closed hi-hat. And some weird
> pitch change stuff going on.
> 
> Im looking at it again tonight so if anyone has any
> ideas, shoot.
> 
> Thanks, Phil.
> 
> 
> 
>       __________________________________________________________
> Sent from Yahoo! Mail.
> A Smarter Email http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
>

Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Prophet 10 dead

2008-06-01 by Frank Simon

does the 9010a troubleshoot to the component or just tell you there is trouble on the Data Bus. I saw one for sale $850. That's a lot of money.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message -----
From: Philip
Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 2:24 PM
Subject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Prophet 10 dead

A quick google of spec sheet reveals that it is
basically a cmos 2114 so you'd be looking at a 5114 or
a 5514 and variations of that. See this is where the
fluke 9010a comes in handy..It can check and resolve
this kind of problem in minuites :)

Thanks, Phil.

--- Frank Simon <fsimon001@neo.rr.com> wrote:

> I did find a chip pulling down DB4 on U311 it is a
> 6514 4K CMOS RAM. Thank god for IC sockets. The only
> problem I'm a little confused on a cross for it. It
> appears obsolete. It is called D444C on the chip and
> 6514 on schematic. Can anyone offer advice on a
> cross.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: fsimon100
> To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 8:58 AM
> Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Prophet 10 dead
>
>
> Was curiouse if anyone can offer help. I bought a
> dead P10 no lights
> or anything. The processor is good. I put logic
> analyzer on decoder
> output and see ROM1 (Y0) and RAM (Y5)(which I
> believe is the scratch
> pad memory)active at start up. All address buses
> and Data buses are
> active. I am not certain the algorithm. A flow
> chart would be nice or
> some help with what I should see at some critical
> points. I am
> wondering if there is a chance the ROMs lost
> programming and how would
> I know. Even if they did shouldn't lights and/or
> display come on. And
> yes the power supplies are good.
>
>
>
>

__________________________________________________________
Sent from Yahoo! Mail.
A Smarter Email http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html

Re: TR-606 Hi-hat problems FIXED

2008-06-02 by eggwheatis

Fixed it last night.....the reason for the hi hat pitch going up and
down from selecting pattern play or write was caused by the +5 supply
to the 14584 rising up and down and having no regulation. It was at +8
sinking to +7...basically the 6.8v zenerdiode that regulates the +5
was inoperative due to a hairline split in the track near a component.

The open hi-hat not decaying...well..I checked the circuit through and
I just could not find the problem..The transistor seem fine, the caps
seem fine, diodes..I checked the continuity of the circuit for broken
tracks..just couldn't find anything wrong.

So anyway the manual states C45 should be 1uf 50v so I changed it to
4.7uf 50v and I now have a very nice decaying open hi-hat...

I changed about ten of the tactile switches to make it perfect.

A little bizzare but what can I say..It works!

Another nice unit advertised as 'FULLY WORKING' on ebay.

Phil.


--- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, Philip <eggwheatis@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Hi guys..bought a supposedly fully working 606 of off
> eBay to find it has problems...
> 
> 1. It wouldn't work with an AC adaptor, batteries
> only. Anyway I fixed that, was some shorted caps and a
> bad regulator. It had some battery damage too around
> that area.
> 
> Next job..the Hi-hats and cymbal sounded really weird,
> kind of flutey and going up and down very slowly in
> pitch. Scoped it and found a bad 4558...fixed? Well
> sort of, the cymbal sounds fine, the hi-hat sounds ok
> except that the open hi-hat sounds identical to the
> closed hi-hat i.e. not open with a long decay. 
> 
> All the transistors in the hi-hat circuit check out
> fine. I've changed the 2904 op amp, the oscillator IC
> is fine (4584). The trigger is fine from the CPU...
> The tempo clock signal is ok as well to the Hi-hats. I
> thought maybe the closed hi hat trigger was triggering
> the open too or something. 
> 
> So I moved to caps. I've changed every single
> Electrolytic marked in the hi-hats section. No change.
> I notice one thing. If I change the value of cap C45 I
> can make the open hi-hat decay longer but I'm moving
> it well away from the stated 1uf it's supposed to be.
> 
> One other thing; when you start a pattern off the
> first hi hat beat is raised in pitch also when you
> switch between write mode or play mode, the pitch of
> all the cymbals, hi-hats change. You get a higher
> pitch in play mode.
> 
> So to recap I basically have an open hi-hat that
> sounds identical to the closed hi-hat. And some weird
> pitch change stuff going on.
> 
> Im looking at it again tonight so if anyone has any
> ideas, shoot.
> 
> Thanks, Phil.
> 
> 
> 
>       __________________________________________________________
> Sent from Yahoo! Mail.
> A Smarter Email http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
>

Re: Prophet 10 dead

2008-06-02 by eggwheatis

It's brilliant for troubleshooting down to component level on old
processor based digital circuits. You need a 9010a and the relevant
CPU specific Pod. $850 is a lot of money. I have spare 9010 for sale
for £120. Pods are extra.

--- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Simon"
<fsimon001@...> wrote:
>
> does the 9010a troubleshoot to the component or just tell you there
is trouble on the Data Bus. I saw one for sale $850. That's a lot of
money.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Philip 
>   To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 2:24 PM
>   Subject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Prophet 10 dead
> 
> 
>   A quick google of spec sheet reveals that it is
>   basically a cmos 2114 so you'd be looking at a 5114 or
>   a 5514 and variations of that. See this is where the
>   fluke 9010a comes in handy..It can check and resolve
>   this kind of problem in minuites :)
> 
>   Thanks, Phil.
> 
>   --- Frank Simon <fsimon001@...> wrote:
> 
>   > I did find a chip pulling down DB4 on U311 it is a
>   > 6514 4K CMOS RAM. Thank god for IC sockets. The only
>   > problem I'm a little confused on a cross for it. It
>   > appears obsolete. It is called D444C on the chip and
>   > 6514 on schematic. Can anyone offer advice on a
>   > cross.
>   > ----- Original Message ----- 
>   > From: fsimon100 
>   > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com 
>   > Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 8:58 AM
>   > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Prophet 10 dead
>   > 
>   > 
>   > Was curiouse if anyone can offer help. I bought a
>   > dead P10 no lights 
>   > or anything. The processor is good. I put logic
>   > analyzer on decoder 
>   > output and see ROM1 (Y0) and RAM (Y5)(which I
>   > believe is the scratch 
>   > pad memory)active at start up. All address buses
>   > and Data buses are 
>   > active. I am not certain the algorithm. A flow
>   > chart would be nice or 
>   > some help with what I should see at some critical
>   > points. I am 
>   > wondering if there is a chance the ROMs lost
>   > programming and how would 
>   > I know. Even if they did shouldn't lights and/or
>   > display come on. And 
>   > yes the power supplies are good.
>   > 
>   > 
>   > 
>   > 
> 
>   __________________________________________________________
>   Sent from Yahoo! Mail.
>   A Smarter Email http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
>

Re: TR-606 Hi-hat problems FIXED

2008-06-02 by duncan

phil- congrats on your successful repair, & many thanks for the posts.
even though I don't have a 606 myself, I found the story genuinely
inspirational. it's always good to hear from other people who are
determined enough to fix stuff like this, & it's useful stuff for
folks to find in months/years to come if these posts are archived.
well done.

duncan.

Re: Prophet 10 dead

2008-06-06 by fsimon100

I truly had a great day. I replaced a 1Kx4 RAM and resolved my 
computer problem on my P10. Now all LEDs light up and the unit 
behaves somewhat functional. Upon turn on the unit goes to tune cycle 
then all LEDs light up and entire panel is functional. Still no sound 
but this is a great milestone. Two problems I see are sequential 
board is dead which I think I'm on top of. This is PCB9 which I over 
voltaged when I put the 12V regulator in instead of 5V (due to poor 
documentation this is an option for tape or wafer drive). I think 
this will be easy to fix but I was hoping to help on one clue. There 
is a window showing voices 1 thru 5 and below 6 thru 10. The top 1 
thru 5 show 1,3, and 4 LEDs on continously never changing. The bottom 
6 thru 10 change as I hit the keys as if it is responding however LED 
7 never comes on. Can someone offer advice. I have 4 CEM3310s out on 
the top voice board. It is to my understanding I may get a noise out 
if configured right to see functionality before I buy expensive chips.

Sorry long but I am very happy to be at this status. Can sequencer 
shut down operation. Was curious, should I get sound without 
sequencer.



--- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Simon" 
<fsimon001@...> wrote:
>
> I did find a chip pulling down DB4 on U311 it is a 6514 4K CMOS 
RAM. Thank god for IC sockets. The only problem I'm a little confused 
on a cross for it. It appears obsolete. It is called D444C on the 
chip and 6514 on schematic. Can anyone offer advice on a cross.
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: fsimon100 
>   To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 8:58 AM
>   Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Prophet 10 dead
> 
> 
>   Was curiouse if anyone can offer help. I bought a dead P10 no 
lights 
>   or anything. The processor is good. I put logic analyzer on 
decoder 
>   output and see ROM1 (Y0) and RAM (Y5)(which I believe is the 
scratch 
>   pad memory)active at start up. All address buses and Data buses 
are 
>   active. I am not certain the algorithm. A flow chart would be 
nice or 
>   some help with what I should see at some critical points. I am 
>   wondering if there is a chance the ROMs lost programming and how 
would 
>   I know. Even if they did shouldn't lights and/or display come on. 
And 
>   yes the power supplies are good.
>

Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 dead

2008-06-06 by Stephen Jones

No sound because no stored patches.

Put your oscilloscope on some of the VCO wave output
pins and see if there is an audio waveform there. If
there is, play some keys and see if the frequency
changes. If it doesn't, push the autotune button and
see if the VCO frequency sweeps as the auto tune
process occurs. This will tell you if the computer is
talking to the sample and holds, and if they in turn
are driving the VCO's. 

If you get that far, put your scope on the outputs of
the VCF's, and see if there is a signal there. Before
you do this make sure that you set up a basic patch on
the front panel with VCO's turned on, mixer up, no VCO
of VCF modulation, VCF cutoff open, resonance down,
zero attack and decay of the 2 ADSR's, and so on. 

If there is filter output, move on to the voice
channel VCA's, and finally the master VCA. The EQ
board is another common failure. 


--- fsimon100 <fsimon001@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> I truly had a great day. I replaced a 1Kx4 RAM and
> resolved my 
> computer problem on my P10. Now all LEDs light up
> and the unit 
> behaves somewhat functional. Upon turn on the unit
> goes to tune cycle 
> then all LEDs light up and entire panel is
> functional. Still no sound 
> but this is a great milestone. Two problems I see
> are sequential 
> board is dead which I think I'm on top of. This is
> PCB9 which I over 
> voltaged when I put the 12V regulator in instead of
> 5V (due to poor 
> documentation this is an option for tape or wafer
> drive). I think 
> this will be easy to fix but I was hoping to help on
> one clue. There 
> is a window showing voices 1 thru 5 and below 6 thru
> 10. The top 1 
> thru 5 show 1,3, and 4 LEDs on continously never
> changing. The bottom 
> 6 thru 10 change as I hit the keys as if it is
> responding however LED 
> 7 never comes on. Can someone offer advice. I have 4
> CEM3310s out on 
> the top voice board. It is to my understanding I may
> get a noise out 
> if configured right to see functionality before I
> buy expensive chips.
> 
> Sorry long but I am very happy to be at this status.
> Can sequencer 
> shut down operation. Was curious, should I get sound
> without 
> sequencer.
> 
> 
> 
> --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank
> Simon" 
> <fsimon001@...> wrote:
> >
> > I did find a chip pulling down DB4 on U311 it is a
> 6514 4K CMOS 
> RAM. Thank god for IC sockets. The only problem I'm
> a little confused 
> on a cross for it. It appears obsolete. It is called
> D444C on the 
> chip and 6514 on schematic. Can anyone offer advice
> on a cross.
> >   ----- Original Message ----- 
> >   From: fsimon100 
> >   To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com 
> >   Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 8:58 AM
> >   Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Prophet 10 dead
> > 
> > 
> >   Was curiouse if anyone can offer help. I bought
> a dead P10 no 
> lights 
> >   or anything. The processor is good. I put logic
> analyzer on 
> decoder 
> >   output and see ROM1 (Y0) and RAM (Y5)(which I
> believe is the 
> scratch 
> >   pad memory)active at start up. All address buses
> and Data buses 
> are 
> >   active. I am not certain the algorithm. A flow
> chart would be 
> nice or 
> >   some help with what I should see at some
> critical points. I am 
> >   wondering if there is a chance the ROMs lost
> programming and how 
> would 
> >   I know. Even if they did shouldn't lights and/or
> display come on. 
> And 
> >   yes the power supplies are good.
> >
> 
> 
>

Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 dead

2008-06-06 by Philip

Excellent news, well done..so did you use the Ram I
suggested? Or did you find a 444?

Thanks, Phil.


--- fsimon100 <fsimon001@...> wrote:

> I truly had a great day. I replaced a 1Kx4 RAM and
> resolved my 
> computer problem on my P10. Now all LEDs light up
> and the unit 
> behaves somewhat functional. Upon turn on the unit
> goes to tune cycle 
> then all LEDs light up and entire panel is
> functional. Still no sound 
> but this is a great milestone. Two problems I see
> are sequential 
> board is dead which I think I'm on top of. This is
> PCB9 which I over 
> voltaged when I put the 12V regulator in instead of
> 5V (due to poor 
> documentation this is an option for tape or wafer
> drive). I think 
> this will be easy to fix but I was hoping to help on
> one clue. There 
> is a window showing voices 1 thru 5 and below 6 thru
> 10. The top 1 
> thru 5 show 1,3, and 4 LEDs on continously never
> changing. The bottom 
> 6 thru 10 change as I hit the keys as if it is
> responding however LED 
> 7 never comes on. Can someone offer advice. I have 4
> CEM3310s out on 
> the top voice board. It is to my understanding I may
> get a noise out 
> if configured right to see functionality before I
> buy expensive chips.
> 
> Sorry long but I am very happy to be at this status.
> Can sequencer 
> shut down operation. Was curious, should I get sound
> without 
> sequencer.
> 
> 
> 
> --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank
> Simon" 
> <fsimon001@...> wrote:
> >
> > I did find a chip pulling down DB4 on U311 it is a
> 6514 4K CMOS 
> RAM. Thank god for IC sockets. The only problem I'm
> a little confused 
> on a cross for it. It appears obsolete. It is called
> D444C on the 
> chip and 6514 on schematic. Can anyone offer advice
> on a cross.
> >   ----- Original Message ----- 
> >   From: fsimon100 
> >   To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com 
> >   Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 8:58 AM
> >   Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Prophet 10 dead
> > 
> > 
> >   Was curiouse if anyone can offer help. I bought
> a dead P10 no 
> lights 
> >   or anything. The processor is good. I put logic
> analyzer on 
> decoder 
> >   output and see ROM1 (Y0) and RAM (Y5)(which I
> believe is the 
> scratch 
> >   pad memory)active at start up. All address buses
> and Data buses 
> are 
> >   active. I am not certain the algorithm. A flow
> chart would be 
> nice or 
> >   some help with what I should see at some
> critical points. I am 
> >   wondering if there is a chance the ROMs lost
> programming and how 
> would 
> >   I know. Even if they did shouldn't lights and/or
> display come on. 
> And 
> >   yes the power supplies are good.
> >
> 
> 
> 



      __________________________________________________________
Sent from Yahoo! Mail.
A Smarter Email http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html

Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 dead

2008-06-07 by Frank Simon

I found an Motorola MCM2114P45 from a ebay seller for $3. I was hesitant because it was their slowest access time part at 450nS. I don't know what the D444C access time spec is. I figured it was around 200nS but hopefully the 450 is ok.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message -----
From: Philip
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 8:21 AM
Subject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 dead

Excellent news, well done..so did you use the Ram I
suggested? Or did you find a 444?

Thanks, Phil.

--- fsimon100 <fsimon001@neo.rr.com> wrote:

> I truly had a great day. I replaced a 1Kx4 RAM and
> resolved my
> computer problem on my P10. Now all LEDs light up
> and the unit
> behaves somewhat functional. Upon turn on the unit
> goes to tune cycle
> then all LEDs light up and entire panel is
> functional. Still no sound
> but this is a great milestone. Two problems I see
> are sequential
> board is dead which I think I'm on top of. This is
> PCB9 which I over
> voltaged when I put the 12V regulator in instead of
> 5V (due to poor
> documentation this is an option for tape or wafer
> drive). I think
> this will be easy to fix but I was hoping to help on
> one clue. There
> is a window showing voices 1 thru 5 and below 6 thru
> 10. The top 1
> thru 5 show 1,3, and 4 LEDs on continously never
> changing. The bottom
> 6 thru 10 change as I hit the keys as if it is
> responding however LED
> 7 never comes on. Can someone offer advice. I have 4
> CEM3310s out on
> the top voice board. It is to my understanding I may
> get a noise out
> if configured right to see functionality before I
> buy expensive chips.
>
> Sorry long but I am very happy to be at this status.
> Can sequencer
> shut down operation. Was curious, should I get sound
> without
> sequencer.
>
>
>
> --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank
> Simon"
> ..> wrote:
> >
> > I did find a chip pulling down DB4 on U311 it is a
> 6514 4K CMOS
> RAM. Thank god for IC sockets. The only problem I'm
> a little confused
> on a cross for it. It appears obsolete. It is called
> D444C on the
> chip and 6514 on schematic. Can anyone offer advice
> on a cross.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: fsimon100
> > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 8:58 AM
> > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Prophet 10 dead
> >
> >
> > Was curiouse if anyone can offer help. I bought
> a dead P10 no
> lights
> > or anything. The processor is good. I put logic
> analyzer on
> decoder
> > output and see ROM1 (Y0) and RAM (Y5)(which I
> believe is the
> scratch
> > pad memory)active at start up. All address buses
> and Data buses
> are
> > active. I am not certain the algorithm. A flow
> chart would be
> nice or
> > some help with what I should see at some
> critical points. I am
> > wondering if there is a chance the ROMs lost
> programming and how
> would
> > I know. Even if they did shouldn't lights and/or
> display come on.
> And
> > yes the power supplies are good.
> >
>
>
>

__________________________________________________________
Sent from Yahoo! Mail.
A Smarter Email http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html

Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 dead

2008-06-07 by Philip

Well you should have used a 5114 not a 2114, that I'm
pretty sure of, will cause you problems.

A 2114 is not a cmos device, it is an nmos..therefore
they use different currents..a D444 is pretty fast too
12ns or something.

For instance patch memory: a 5114 connected to a 3v
lithium battery will last years..but with 2114 it will
last a few days.

Perhaps others with better knowledge than me on this
subject can explain further?

Phil.


--- Frank Simon <fsimon001@...> wrote:

> I found an Motorola MCM2114P45 from a ebay seller
> for $3. I was hesitant because it was their slowest
> access time part at 450nS. I don't know what the
> D444C access time spec is. I figured it was around
> 200nS but hopefully the 450 is ok.
> 
> 
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Philip 
>   To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 8:21 AM
>   Subject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10
> dead
> 
> 
>   Excellent news, well done..so did you use the Ram
> I
>   suggested? Or did you find a 444?
> 
>   Thanks, Phil.
> 
>   --- fsimon100 <fsimon001@...> wrote:
> 
>   > I truly had a great day. I replaced a 1Kx4 RAM
> and
>   > resolved my 
>   > computer problem on my P10. Now all LEDs light
> up
>   > and the unit 
>   > behaves somewhat functional. Upon turn on the
> unit
>   > goes to tune cycle 
>   > then all LEDs light up and entire panel is
>   > functional. Still no sound 
>   > but this is a great milestone. Two problems I
> see
>   > are sequential 
>   > board is dead which I think I'm on top of. This
> is
>   > PCB9 which I over 
>   > voltaged when I put the 12V regulator in instead
> of
>   > 5V (due to poor 
>   > documentation this is an option for tape or
> wafer
>   > drive). I think 
>   > this will be easy to fix but I was hoping to
> help on
>   > one clue. There 
>   > is a window showing voices 1 thru 5 and below 6
> thru
>   > 10. The top 1 
>   > thru 5 show 1,3, and 4 LEDs on continously never
>   > changing. The bottom 
>   > 6 thru 10 change as I hit the keys as if it is
>   > responding however LED 
>   > 7 never comes on. Can someone offer advice. I
> have 4
>   > CEM3310s out on 
>   > the top voice board. It is to my understanding I
> may
>   > get a noise out 
>   > if configured right to see functionality before
> I
>   > buy expensive chips.
>   > 
>   > Sorry long but I am very happy to be at this
> status.
>   > Can sequencer 
>   > shut down operation. Was curious, should I get
> sound
>   > without 
>   > sequencer.
>   > 
>   > 
>   > 
>   > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com,
> "Frank
>   > Simon" 
>   > <fsimon001@...> wrote:
>   > >
>   > > I did find a chip pulling down DB4 on U311 it
> is a
>   > 6514 4K CMOS 
>   > RAM. Thank god for IC sockets. The only problem
> I'm
>   > a little confused 
>   > on a cross for it. It appears obsolete. It is
> called
>   > D444C on the 
>   > chip and 6514 on schematic. Can anyone offer
> advice
>   > on a cross.
>   > > ----- Original Message ----- 
>   > > From: fsimon100 
>   > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com 
>   > > Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 8:58 AM
>   > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Prophet 10 dead
>   > > 
>   > > 
>   > > Was curiouse if anyone can offer help. I
> bought
>   > a dead P10 no 
>   > lights 
>   > > or anything. The processor is good. I put
> logic
>   > analyzer on 
>   > decoder 
>   > > output and see ROM1 (Y0) and RAM (Y5)(which I
>   > believe is the 
>   > scratch 
>   > > pad memory)active at start up. All address
> buses
>   > and Data buses 
>   > are 
>   > > active. I am not certain the algorithm. A flow
>   > chart would be 
>   > nice or 
>   > > some help with what I should see at some
>   > critical points. I am 
>   > > wondering if there is a chance the ROMs lost
>   > programming and how 
>   > would 
>   > > I know. Even if they did shouldn't lights
> and/or
>   > display come on. 
>   > And 
>   > > yes the power supplies are good.
>   > >
>   > 
>   > 
>   > 
> 
>  
>
__________________________________________________________
>   Sent from Yahoo! Mail.
>   A Smarter Email
> http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
> 
> 
>    



      __________________________________________________________
Sent from Yahoo! Mail.
A Smarter Email http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html

Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 dead

2008-06-07 by Frank Simon

Thanks. Shouldn't I be able to Inject an audio generator on the coax connecting the voice board to the EQ board to prove the EQ board functional.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 5:56 AM
Subject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 dead

No sound because no stored patches.

Put your oscilloscope on some of the VCO wave output
pins and see if there is an audio waveform there. If
there is, play some keys and see if the frequency
changes. If it doesn't, push the autotune button and
see if the VCO frequency sweeps as the auto tune
process occurs. This will tell you if the computer is
talking to the sample and holds, and if they in turn
are driving the VCO's.

If you get that far, put your scope on the outputs of
the VCF's, and see if there is a signal there. Before
you do this make sure that you set up a basic patch on
the front panel with VCO's turned on, mixer up, no VCO
of VCF modulation, VCF cutoff open, resonance down,
zero attack and decay of the 2 ADSR's, and so on.

If there is filter output, move on to the voice
channel VCA's, and finally the master VCA. The EQ
board is another common failure.

--- fsimon100 <fsimon001@neo.rr.com> wrote:

> I truly had a great day. I replaced a 1Kx4 RAM and
> resolved my
> computer problem on my P10. Now all LEDs light up
> and the unit
> behaves somewhat functional. Upon turn on the unit
> goes to tune cycle
> then all LEDs light up and entire panel is
> functional. Still no sound
> but this is a great milestone. Two problems I see
> are sequential
> board is dead which I think I'm on top of. This is
> PCB9 which I over
> voltaged when I put the 12V regulator in instead of
> 5V (due to poor
> documentation this is an option for tape or wafer
> drive). I think
> this will be easy to fix but I was hoping to help on
> one clue. There
> is a window showing voices 1 thru 5 and below 6 thru
> 10. The top 1
> thru 5 show 1,3, and 4 LEDs on continously never
> changing. The bottom
> 6 thru 10 change as I hit the keys as if it is
> responding however LED
> 7 never comes on. Can someone offer advice. I have 4
> CEM3310s out on
> the top voice board. It is to my understanding I may
> get a noise out
> if configured right to see functionality before I
> buy expensive chips.
>
> Sorry long but I am very happy to be at this status.
> Can sequencer
> shut down operation. Was curious, should I get sound
> without
> sequencer.
>
>
>
> --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Frank
> Simon"
> ..> wrote:
> >
> > I did find a chip pulling down DB4 on U311 it is a
> 6514 4K CMOS
> RAM. Thank god for IC sockets. The only problem I'm
> a little confused
> on a cross for it. It appears obsolete. It is called
> D444C on the
> chip and 6514 on schematic. Can anyone offer advice
> on a cross.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: fsimon100
> > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 8:58 AM
> > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Prophet 10 dead
> >
> >
> > Was curiouse if anyone can offer help. I bought
> a dead P10 no
> lights
> > or anything. The processor is good. I put logic
> analyzer on
> decoder
> > output and see ROM1 (Y0) and RAM (Y5)(which I
> believe is the
> scratch
> > pad memory)active at start up. All address buses
> and Data buses
> are
> > active. I am not certain the algorithm. A flow
> chart would be
> nice or
> > some help with what I should see at some
> critical points. I am
> > wondering if there is a chance the ROMs lost
> programming and how
> would
> > I know. Even if they did shouldn't lights and/or
> display come on.
> And
> > yes the power supplies are good.
> >
>
>
>

Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 dead

2008-06-07 by Frank Simon

I like to hear these details. Off the decoder is NV1,NV2, and Scratch RAM. On my schematic my scratchpad RAM are two 2114s. The part that failed was as you know a D444C and was part of NV1. All of these are 1K x 4bit. The NV memory on my schematic say 6514. But at least putting the 2114 in showed me the failed part. If you think the 6514 is more compatible with 5114 I'll replace it. Do you know details of 6514.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message -----
From: Philip
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 9:43 PM
Subject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 dead

Well you should have used a 5114 not a 2114, that I'm
pretty sure of, will cause you problems.

A 2114 is not a cmos device, it is an nmos..therefore
they use different currents..a D444 is pretty fast too
12ns or something.

For instance patch memory: a 5114 connected to a 3v
lithium battery will last years..but with 2114 it will
last a few days.

Perhaps others with better knowledge than me on this
subject can explain further?

Phil.

--- Frank Simon <fsimon001@neo.rr.com> wrote:

> I found an Motorola MCM2114P45 from a ebay seller
> for $3. I was hesitant because it was their slowest
> access time part at 450nS. I don't know what the
> D444C access time spec is. I figured it was around
> 200nS but hopefully the 450 is ok.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Philip
> To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 8:21 AM
> Subject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10
> dead
>
>
> Excellent news, well done..so did you use the Ram
> I
> suggested? Or did you find a 444?
>
> Thanks, Phil.
>
> --- fsimon100 <fsimon001@neo.rr.com> wrote:
>
> > I truly had a great day. I replaced a 1Kx4 RAM
> and
> > resolved my
> > computer problem on my P10. Now all LEDs light
> up
> > and the unit
> > behaves somewhat functional. Upon turn on the
> unit
> > goes to tune cycle
> > then all LEDs light up and entire panel is
> > functional. Still no sound
> > but this is a great milestone. Two problems I
> see
> > are sequential
> > board is dead which I think I'm on top of. This
> is
> > PCB9 which I over
> > voltaged when I put the 12V regulator in instead
> of
> > 5V (due to poor
> > documentation this is an option for tape or
> wafer
> > drive). I think
> > this will be easy to fix but I was hoping to
> help on
> > one clue. There
> > is a window showing voices 1 thru 5 and below 6
> thru
> > 10. The top 1
> > thru 5 show 1,3, and 4 LEDs on continously never
> > changing. The bottom
> > 6 thru 10 change as I hit the keys as if it is
> > responding however LED
> > 7 never comes on. Can someone offer advice. I
> have 4
> > CEM3310s out on
> > the top voice board. It is to my understanding I
> may
> > get a noise out
> > if configured right to see functionality before
> I
> > buy expensive chips.
> >
> > Sorry long but I am very happy to be at this
> status.
> > Can sequencer
> > shut down operation. Was curious, should I get
> sound
> > without
> > sequencer.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com,
> "Frank
> > Simon"
> > <;fsimon001@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > I did find a chip pulling down DB4 on U311 it
> is a
> > 6514 4K CMOS
> > RAM. Thank god for IC sockets. The only problem
> I'm
> > a little confused
> > on a cross for it. It appears obsolete. It is
> called
> > D444C on the
> > chip and 6514 on schematic. Can anyone offer
> advice
> > on a cross.
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: fsimon100
> > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 8:58 AM
> > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Prophet 10 dead
> > >
> > >
> > > Was curiouse if anyone can offer help. I
> bought
> > a dead P10 no
>; > lights
> > > or anything. The processor is good. I put
> logic
> > analyzer on
> > decoder
> > > output and see ROM1 (Y0) and RAM (Y5)(which I
> > believe is the
> > scratch
> > > pad memory)active at start up. All address
> buses
> > and Data buses
> > are
> > > active. I am not certain the algorithm. A flow
> > chart would be
> > nice or
> > > some help with what I should see at some
> > critical points. I am
> > > wondering if there is a chance the ROMs lost
> > programming and how
> > would
> > > I know. Even if they did shouldn't lights
> and/or
> > display come on.
> > And
> > > yes the power supplies are good.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
__________________________________________________________
> Sent from Yahoo! Mail.
> A Smarter Email
> http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
>
>
>

__________________________________________________________
Sent from Yahoo! Mail.
A Smarter Email http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html

Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 dead

2008-06-07 by Philip

Yeh...Scratchpad can use standard 2114. NV ram = Non
volatile IE User patch memory..which is obviously
battery backed-upped and so uses 5114/6514 CMOS ram
due to it's low current drain. 

Therefore the 2114 will probably drain the memory
battery very quickly due to the higher current drain
of  NMOS technology.

2114 is not compatible with 5114 in this situation,
sure it will get it to work in the short term..I've
done it myself popped in a 2114 to check
circuits...5114 5514 6514 D444C are all crosses of
each other. They are all hard to find too. 2114 is
easy to get.

If anyone knows better you are welcome to correct me
of course!

Phil.



--- Frank Simon <fsimon001@...> wrote:

> I like to hear these details. Off the decoder is
> NV1,NV2, and Scratch RAM. On my schematic my
> scratchpad RAM are two 2114s. The part that failed
> was as you know a D444C and was part of NV1.  All of
> these are 1K x 4bit. The NV memory on my schematic
> say 6514. But at least putting the 2114 in showed me
> the failed part. If you think the 6514 is more
> compatible with 5114 I'll replace it. Do you know
> details of 6514.
> 
>   
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Philip 
>   To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 9:43 PM
>   Subject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10
> dead
> 
> 
>   Well you should have used a 5114 not a 2114, that
> I'm
>   pretty sure of, will cause you problems.
> 
>   A 2114 is not a cmos device, it is an
> nmos..therefore
>   they use different currents..a D444 is pretty fast
> too
>   12ns or something.
> 
>   For instance patch memory: a 5114 connected to a
> 3v
>   lithium battery will last years..but with 2114 it
> will
>   last a few days.
> 
>   Perhaps others with better knowledge than me on
> this
>   subject can explain further?
> 
>   Phil.
> 
>   --- Frank Simon <fsimon001@...> wrote:
> 
>   > I found an Motorola MCM2114P45 from a ebay
> seller
>   > for $3. I was hesitant because it was their
> slowest
>   > access time part at 450nS. I don't know what the
>   > D444C access time spec is. I figured it was
> around
>   > 200nS but hopefully the 450 is ok.
>   > 
>   > 
>   > ----- Original Message ----- 
>   > From: Philip 
>   > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com 
>   > Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 8:21 AM
>   > Subject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10
>   > dead
>   > 
>   > 
>   > Excellent news, well done..so did you use the
> Ram
>   > I
>   > suggested? Or did you find a 444?
>   > 
>   > Thanks, Phil.
>   > 
>   > --- fsimon100 <fsimon001@...> wrote:
>   > 
>   > > I truly had a great day. I replaced a 1Kx4 RAM
>   > and
>   > > resolved my 
>   > > computer problem on my P10. Now all LEDs light
>   > up
>   > > and the unit 
>   > > behaves somewhat functional. Upon turn on the
>   > unit
>   > > goes to tune cycle 
>   > > then all LEDs light up and entire panel is
>   > > functional. Still no sound 
>   > > but this is a great milestone. Two problems I
>   > see
>   > > are sequential 
>   > > board is dead which I think I'm on top of.
> This
>   > is
>   > > PCB9 which I over 
>   > > voltaged when I put the 12V regulator in
> instead
>   > of
>   > > 5V (due to poor 
>   > > documentation this is an option for tape or
>   > wafer
>   > > drive). I think 
>   > > this will be easy to fix but I was hoping to
>   > help on
>   > > one clue. There 
>   > > is a window showing voices 1 thru 5 and below
> 6
>   > thru
>   > > 10. The top 1 
>   > > thru 5 show 1,3, and 4 LEDs on continously
> never
>   > > changing. The bottom 
>   > > 6 thru 10 change as I hit the keys as if it is
>   > > responding however LED 
>   > > 7 never comes on. Can someone offer advice. I
>   > have 4
>   > > CEM3310s out on 
>   > > the top voice board. It is to my understanding
> I
>   > may
>   > > get a noise out 
>   > > if configured right to see functionality
> before
>   > I
>   > > buy expensive chips.
>   > > 
>   > > Sorry long but I am very happy to be at this
>   > status.
>   > > Can sequencer 
>   > > shut down operation. Was curious, should I get
>   > sound
>   > > without 
>   > > sequencer.
>   > > 
>   > > 
>   > > 
>   > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com,
>   > "Frank
>   > > Simon" 
>   > > <fsimon001@...> wrote:
>   > > >
>   > > > I did find a chip pulling down DB4 on U311
> it
>   > is a
>   > > 6514 4K CMOS 
>   > > RAM. Thank god for IC sockets. The only
> problem
>   > I'm
>   > > a little confused 
>   > > on a cross for it. It appears obsolete. It is
>   > called
>   > > D444C on the 
>   > > chip and 6514 on schematic. Can anyone offer
>   > advice
>   > > on a cross.
>   > > > ----- Original Message ----- 
>   > > > From: fsimon100 
>   > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com 
>   > > > Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 8:58 AM
>   > > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Prophet 10
> dead
>   > > > 
>   > > > 
>   > > > Was curiouse if anyone can offer help. I
>   > bought
>   > > a dead P10 no 
>   > > lights 
>   > > > or anything. The processor is good. I put
>   > logic
>   > > analyzer on 
>   > > decoder 
>   > > > output and see ROM1 (Y0) and RAM (Y5)(which
> I
>   > > believe is the 
>   > > scratch 
>   > > > pad memory)active at start up. All address
>   > buses
>   > > and Data buses 
>   > > are 
>   > > > active. I am not certain the algorithm. A
> flow
>   > > chart would be 
>   > > nice or 
>   > > > some help with what I should see at some
>   > > critical points. I am 
>   > > > wondering if there is a chance the ROMs lost
>   > > programming and how 
>   > > would 
>   > > > I know. Even if they did shouldn't lights
>   > and/or
>   > > display come on. 
>   > > And 
>   > > > yes the power supplies are good.
>   > > >
>   > > 
>   > > 
>   > > 
>   > 
>   > 
>   >
>  
>
__________________________________________________________
>   > Sent from Yahoo! Mail.
>   > A Smarter Email
>   > http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
>   > 
>   > 
>   > 
> 
=== message truncated ===



      __________________________________________________________
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Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 dead

2008-06-07 by Stephen Jones

I would have to go look at the schematic, but from
memory I think that it would work.


--- Frank Simon <fsimon001@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Thanks. Shouldn't I be able to Inject an audio
> generator on the coax connecting the voice board to
> the EQ board to prove the EQ board functional.
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Stephen Jones 
>   To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 5:56 AM
>   Subject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10
> dead
> 
> 
>   No sound because no stored patches.
> 
>   Put your oscilloscope on some of the VCO wave
> output
>   pins and see if there is an audio waveform there.
> If
>   there is, play some keys and see if the frequency
>   changes. If it doesn't, push the autotune button
> and
>   see if the VCO frequency sweeps as the auto tune
>   process occurs. This will tell you if the computer
> is
>   talking to the sample and holds, and if they in
> turn
>   are driving the VCO's. 
> 
>   If you get that far, put your scope on the outputs
> of
>   the VCF's, and see if there is a signal there.
> Before
>   you do this make sure that you set up a basic
> patch on
>   the front panel with VCO's turned on, mixer up, no
> VCO
>   of VCF modulation, VCF cutoff open, resonance
> down,
>   zero attack and decay of the 2 ADSR's, and so on. 
> 
>   If there is filter output, move on to the voice
>   channel VCA's, and finally the master VCA. The EQ
>   board is another common failure. 
> 
>   --- fsimon100 <fsimon001@...> wrote:
> 
>   > I truly had a great day. I replaced a 1Kx4 RAM
> and
>   > resolved my 
>   > computer problem on my P10. Now all LEDs light
> up
>   > and the unit 
>   > behaves somewhat functional. Upon turn on the
> unit
>   > goes to tune cycle 
>   > then all LEDs light up and entire panel is
>   > functional. Still no sound 
>   > but this is a great milestone. Two problems I
> see
>   > are sequential 
>   > board is dead which I think I'm on top of. This
> is
>   > PCB9 which I over 
>   > voltaged when I put the 12V regulator in instead
> of
>   > 5V (due to poor 
>   > documentation this is an option for tape or
> wafer
>   > drive). I think 
>   > this will be easy to fix but I was hoping to
> help on
>   > one clue. There 
>   > is a window showing voices 1 thru 5 and below 6
> thru
>   > 10. The top 1 
>   > thru 5 show 1,3, and 4 LEDs on continously never
>   > changing. The bottom 
>   > 6 thru 10 change as I hit the keys as if it is
>   > responding however LED 
>   > 7 never comes on. Can someone offer advice. I
> have 4
>   > CEM3310s out on 
>   > the top voice board. It is to my understanding I
> may
>   > get a noise out 
>   > if configured right to see functionality before
> I
>   > buy expensive chips.
>   > 
>   > Sorry long but I am very happy to be at this
> status.
>   > Can sequencer 
>   > shut down operation. Was curious, should I get
> sound
>   > without 
>   > sequencer.
>   > 
>   > 
>   > 
>   > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com,
> "Frank
>   > Simon" 
>   > <fsimon001@...> wrote:
>   > >
>   > > I did find a chip pulling down DB4 on U311 it
> is a
>   > 6514 4K CMOS 
>   > RAM. Thank god for IC sockets. The only problem
> I'm
>   > a little confused 
>   > on a cross for it. It appears obsolete. It is
> called
>   > D444C on the 
>   > chip and 6514 on schematic. Can anyone offer
> advice
>   > on a cross.
>   > > ----- Original Message ----- 
>   > > From: fsimon100 
>   > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com 
>   > > Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 8:58 AM
>   > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Prophet 10 dead
>   > > 
>   > > 
>   > > Was curiouse if anyone can offer help. I
> bought
>   > a dead P10 no 
>   > lights 
>   > > or anything. The processor is good. I put
> logic
>   > analyzer on 
>   > decoder 
>   > > output and see ROM1 (Y0) and RAM (Y5)(which I
>   > believe is the 
>   > scratch 
>   > > pad memory)active at start up. All address
> buses
>   > and Data buses 
>   > are 
>   > > active. I am not certain the algorithm. A flow
>   > chart would be 
>   > nice or 
>   > > some help with what I should see at some
>   > critical points. I am 
>   > > wondering if there is a chance the ROMs lost
>   > programming and how 
>   > would 
>   > > I know. Even if they did shouldn't lights
> and/or
>   > display come on. 
>   > And 
>   > > yes the power supplies are good.
>   > >
>   > 
>   > 
>   > 
> 
> 
> 
>

Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 dead

2008-06-07 by Frank Simon

I am going to take your recommendation and get the 5114. The 2114 was a quick troubleshooter.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message -----
From: Philip
Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2008 1:30 AM
Subject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 dead

Yeh...Scratchpad can use standard 2114. NV ram = Non
volatile IE User patch memory..which is obviously
battery backed-upped and so uses 5114/6514 CMOS ram
due to it's low current drain.

Therefore the 2114 will probably drain the memory
battery very quickly due to the higher current drain
of NMOS technology.

2114 is not compatible with 5114 in this situation,
sure it will get it to work in the short term..I've
done it myself popped in a 2114 to check
circuits...5114 5514 6514 D444C are all crosses of
each other. They are all hard to find too. 2114 is
easy to get.

If anyone knows better you are welcome to correct me
of course!

Phil.

--- Frank Simon <fsimon001@neo.rr.com> wrote:

> I like to hear these details. Off the decoder is
> NV1,NV2, and Scratch RAM. On my schematic my
> scratchpad RAM are two 2114s. The part that failed
> was as you know a D444C and was part of NV1. All of
> these are 1K x 4bit. The NV memory on my schematic
> say 6514. But at least putting the 2114 in showed me
> the failed part. If you think the 6514 is more
> compatible with 5114 I'll replace it. Do you know
> details of 6514.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Philip
> To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 9:43 PM
> Subject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10
> dead
>
>;
> Well you should have used a 5114 not a 2114, that
> I'm
> pretty sure of, will cause you problems.
>
> A 2114 is not a cmos device, it is an
> nmos..therefore
> they use different currents..a D444 is pretty fast
> too
> 12ns or something.
>
> For instance patch memory: a 5114 connected to a
> 3v
> lithium battery will last years..but with 2114 it
> will
> last a few days.
>
> Perhaps others with better knowledge than me on
> this
> subject can explain further?
>
> Phil.
>
> --- Frank Simon <fsimon001@neo.rr.com> wrote:
>
> > I found an Motorola MCM2114P45 from a ebay
> seller
> > for $3. I was hesitant because it was their
> slowest
> > access time part at 450nS. I don't know what the
> > D444C access time spec is. I figured it was
>; around
> > 200nS but hopefully the 450 is ok.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Philip
> > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 8:21 AM
> > Subject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10
> > dead
> >
> >
> > Excellent news, well done..so did you use the
> Ram
> > I
> > suggested? Or did you find a 444?
> >
> > Thanks, Phil.
> >
> > --- fsimon100 <fsimon001@neo.rr.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I truly had a great day. I replaced a 1Kx4 RAM
> > and
> > > resolved my
> > > computer problem on my P10. Now all LEDs light
> > up
> > > and the unit
> > > behaves somewhat functional. Upon turn on the
> > unit
> > > goes to tune cycle
> > > then all LEDs light up and entire panel is
> > > functional. Still no sound
> > > but this is a great milestone. Two problems I
> > see
> > > are sequential
> > > board is dead which I think I'm on top of.
> This
> > is
> > > PCB9 which I over
> > > voltaged when I put the 12V regulator in
> instead
> > of
> > > 5V (due to poor
> > > documentation this is an option for tape or
> > wafer
> > > drive). I think
> > > this will be easy to fix but I was hoping to
> > help on
> > > one clue. There
> > > is a window showing voices 1 thru 5 and below
> 6
> > thru
> > > 10. The top 1
> > > thru 5 show 1,3, and 4 LEDs on continously
> never
> > > changing. The bottom
> > > 6 thru 10 change as I hit the keys as if it is
> > > responding however LED
> > > 7 never comes on. Can someone offer advice. I
> > have 4
> > > CEM3310s out on
> > > the top voice board. It is to my understanding
> I
> > may
>; > > get a noise out
> > > if configured right to see functionality
> before
> > I
> > > buy expensive chips.
> > >
> > > Sorry long but I am very happy to be at this
> > status.
> > > Can sequencer
> > > shut down operation. Was curious, should I get
> > sound
> > > without
> > > sequencer.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com,
> > "Frank
> > > Simon"
> > > ..> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I did find a chip pulling down DB4 on U311
> it
> > is a
> > > 6514 4K CMOS
> > > RAM. Thank god for IC sockets. The only
> problem
> > I'm
> > > a little confused
> >; > on a cross for it. It appears obsolete. It is
> > called
> > > D444C on the
> > > chip and 6514 on schematic. Can anyone offer
> > advice
> > > on a cross.
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: fsimon100
> > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 8:58 AM
> > > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Prophet 10
> dead
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Was curiouse if anyone can offer help. I
> > bought
> > > a dead P10 no
> > > lights
> > > > or anything. The processor is good. I put
> > logic
> > > analyzer on
> > > decoder
> > > > output and see ROM1 (Y0) and RAM (Y5)(which
> I
> > > believe is the
> > > scratch
> > > > pad memory)active at start up. All address
> > buses
> > > and Data buses
> > > are
> > > > active. I am not certain the algorithm. A
> flow
> > > chart would be
> > > nice or
> > > > some help with what I should see at some
> > > critical points. I am
> > > > wondering if there is a chance the ROMs lost
>; > > programming and how
> > > would
> > > > I know. Even if they did shouldn't lights
> > and/or
> > > display come on.
> > > And
> > > > yes the power supplies are good.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >;
> >
>
>
__________________________________________________________
> > Sent from Yahoo! Mail.
> > A Smarter Email
> > http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
> >
> >
> >
>
=== message truncated ===

__________________________________________________________
Sent from Yahoo! Mail.
A Smarter Email http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html

Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 dead

2008-06-07 by Philip

Cool..I checked with my electronics guru friend and he
said I am correct about this.

5114 5514 is used in old arcade games like Williams
Robotron or Joust btw, so check vintage arcade part
suppliers too.

Good luck, Phil.


--- Frank Simon <fsimon001@...> wrote:

> I am going to take your recommendation and get the
> 5114. The 2114 was a quick troubleshooter.
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Philip 
>   To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2008 1:30 AM
>   Subject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10
> dead
> 
> 
>   Yeh...Scratchpad can use standard 2114. NV ram =
> Non
>   volatile IE User patch memory..which is obviously
>   battery backed-upped and so uses 5114/6514 CMOS
> ram
>   due to it's low current drain. 
> 
>   Therefore the 2114 will probably drain the memory
>   battery very quickly due to the higher current
> drain
>   of NMOS technology.
> 
>   2114 is not compatible with 5114 in this
> situation,
>   sure it will get it to work in the short
> term..I've
>   done it myself popped in a 2114 to check
>   circuits...5114 5514 6514 D444C are all crosses of
>   each other. They are all hard to find too. 2114 is
>   easy to get.
> 
>   If anyone knows better you are welcome to correct
> me
>   of course!
> 
>   Phil.
> 
>   --- Frank Simon <fsimon001@...> wrote:
> 
>   > I like to hear these details. Off the decoder is
>   > NV1,NV2, and Scratch RAM. On my schematic my
>   > scratchpad RAM are two 2114s. The part that
> failed
>   > was as you know a D444C and was part of NV1. All
> of
>   > these are 1K x 4bit. The NV memory on my
> schematic
>   > say 6514. But at least putting the 2114 in
> showed me
>   > the failed part. If you think the 6514 is more
>   > compatible with 5114 I'll replace it. Do you
> know
>   > details of 6514.
>   > 
>   > 
>   > ----- Original Message ----- 
>   > From: Philip 
>   > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com 
>   > Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 9:43 PM
>   > Subject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10
>   > dead
>   > 
>   > 
>   > Well you should have used a 5114 not a 2114,
> that
>   > I'm
>   > pretty sure of, will cause you problems.
>   > 
>   > A 2114 is not a cmos device, it is an
>   > nmos..therefore
>   > they use different currents..a D444 is pretty
> fast
>   > too
>   > 12ns or something.
>   > 
>   > For instance patch memory: a 5114 connected to a
>   > 3v
>   > lithium battery will last years..but with 2114
> it
>   > will
>   > last a few days.
>   > 
>   > Perhaps others with better knowledge than me on
>   > this
>   > subject can explain further?
>   > 
>   > Phil.
>   > 
>   > --- Frank Simon <fsimon001@...> wrote:
>   > 
>   > > I found an Motorola MCM2114P45 from a ebay
>   > seller
>   > > for $3. I was hesitant because it was their
>   > slowest
>   > > access time part at 450nS. I don't know what
> the
>   > > D444C access time spec is. I figured it was
>   > around
>   > > 200nS but hopefully the 450 is ok.
>   > > 
>   > > 
>   > > ----- Original Message ----- 
>   > > From: Philip 
>   > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com 
>   > > Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 8:21 AM
>   > > Subject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet
> 10
>   > > dead
>   > > 
>   > > 
>   > > Excellent news, well done..so did you use the
>   > Ram
>   > > I
>   > > suggested? Or did you find a 444?
>   > > 
>   > > Thanks, Phil.
>   > > 
>   > > --- fsimon100 <fsimon001@...> wrote:
>   > > 
>   > > > I truly had a great day. I replaced a 1Kx4
> RAM
>   > > and
>   > > > resolved my 
>   > > > computer problem on my P10. Now all LEDs
> light
>   > > up
>   > > > and the unit 
>   > > > behaves somewhat functional. Upon turn on
> the
>   > > unit
>   > > > goes to tune cycle 
>   > > > then all LEDs light up and entire panel is
>   > > > functional. Still no sound 
>   > > > but this is a great milestone. Two problems
> I
>   > > see
>   > > > are sequential 
>   > > > board is dead which I think I'm on top of.
>   > This
>   > > is
>   > > > PCB9 which I over 
>   > > > voltaged when I put the 12V regulator in
>   > instead
>   > > of
>   > > > 5V (due to poor 
>   > > > documentation this is an option for tape or
>   > > wafer
>   > > > drive). I think 
>   > > > this will be easy to fix but I was hoping to
>   > > help on
>   > > > one clue. There 
>   > > > is a window showing voices 1 thru 5 and
> below
>   > 6
>   > > thru
>   > > > 10. The top 1 
>   > > > thru 5 show 1,3, and 4 LEDs on continously
>   > never
>   > > > changing. The bottom 
>   > > > 6 thru 10 change as I hit the keys as if it
> is
>   > > > responding however LED 
>   > > > 7 never comes on. Can someone offer advice.
> I
>   > > have 4
>   > > > CEM3310s out on 
>   > > > the top voice board. It is to my
> understanding
>   > I
>   > > may
>   > > > get a noise out 
>   > > > if configured right to see functionality
>   > before
>   > > I
>   > > > buy expensive chips.
>   > > > 
>   > > > Sorry long but I am very happy to be at this
>   > > status.
>   > > > Can sequencer 
>   > > > shut down operation. Was curious, should I
> get
>   > > sound
>   > > > without 
>   > > > sequencer.
>   > > > 
>   > > > 
>   > > > 
>   > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com,
>   > > "Frank
>   > > > Simon" 
>   > > > <fsimon001@...> wrote:
>   > > > >
>   > > > > I did find a chip pulling down DB4 on U311
>   > it
>   > > is a
>   > > > 6514 4K CMOS 
>   > > > RAM. Thank god for IC sockets. The only
>   > problem
>   > > I'm
>   > > > a little confused 
>   > > > on a cross for it. It appears obsolete. It
> is
> 
=== message truncated ===



      __________________________________________________________
Sent from Yahoo! Mail.
A Smarter Email http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html

Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 dead

2008-06-07 by Frank Simon

Thanks. I found some 6514 on ebay. There are alot of variety I have to learn. There are NM and HM prefixes both by Harris. Plus -5,-8, -9 suffixes. Do you know general summary of this information. I will search for datasheet.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message -----
From: Philip
Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2008 8:25 AM
Subject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 dead

Cool..I checked with my electronics guru friend and he
said I am correct about this.

5114 5514 is used in old arcade games like Williams
Robotron or Joust btw, so check vintage arcade part
suppliers too.

Good luck, Phil.

--- Frank Simon <fsimon001@neo.rr.com> wrote:

> I am going to take your recommendation and get the
> 5114. The 2114 was a quick troubleshooter.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Philip
> To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2008 1:30 AM
> Subject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10
> dead
>
>
> Yeh...Scratchpad can use standard 2114. NV ram =
> Non
> volatile IE User patch memory..which is obviously
> battery backed-upped and so uses 5114/6514 CMOS
> ram
> due to it's low current drain.
>
> Therefore the 2114 will probably drain the memory
> battery very quickly due to the higher current
> drain
> of NMOS technology.
>
> 2114 is not compatible with 5114 in this
> situation,
> sure it will get it to work in the short
> term..I've
> done it myself popped in a 2114 to check
> circuits...5114 5514 6514 D444C are all crosses of
> each other. They are all hard to find too. 2114 is
> easy to get.
>
> If anyone knows better you are welcome to correct
> me
> of course!
>
> Phil.
>
> --- Frank Simon <fsimon001@neo.rr.com> wrote:
>
> > I like to hear these details. Off the decoder is
> > NV1,NV2, and Scratch RAM. On my schematic my
> > scratchpad RAM are two 2114s. The part that
> failed
> > was as you know a D444C and was part of NV1. All
> of
> > these are 1K x 4bit. The NV memory on my
> schematic
> > say 6514. But at least putting the 2114 in
> showed me
> > the failed part. If you think the 6514 is more
> > compatible with 5114 I'll replace it. Do you
> know
> > details of 6514.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Philip
> > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 9:43 PM
> > Subject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10
> > dead
> >
> >
> > Well you should have used a 5114 not a 2114,
> that
> > I'm
> > pretty sure of, will cause you problems.
> >
> > A 2114 is not a cmos device, it is an
> > nmos..therefore
> > they use different currents..a D444 is pretty
> fast
> > too
> > 12ns or something.
> >;
> > For instance patch memory: a 5114 connected to a
> > 3v
> > lithium battery will last years..but with 2114
> it
> > will
> > last a few days.
> >
> > Perhaps others with better knowledge than me on
> > this
> > subject can explain further?
> >
> >; Phil.
> >
> > --- Frank Simon <fsimon001@neo.rr.com> wrote:
>; >
> > > I found an Motorola MCM2114P45 from a ebay
> > seller
> > > for $3. I was hesitant because it was their
> > slowest
> > > access time part at 450nS. I don't know what
> the
> > > D444C access time spec is. I figured it was
> > around
> > > 200nS but hopefully the 450 is ok.
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Philip
> > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 8:21 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet
> 10
> > > dead
> > >
> > >
> > > Excellent news, well done..so did you use the
> > Ram
> > > I
> > > suggested? Or did you find a 444?
> > >
> > > Thanks, Phil.
> > >
> > > --- fsimon100 <fsimon001@neo.rr.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I truly had a great day. I replaced a 1Kx4
> RAM
> > > and
> > > > resolved my
> > > > computer problem on my P10. Now all LEDs
> light
> > > up
> > > >; and the unit
> > > > behaves somewhat functional. Upon turn on
> the
> > > unit
> > > > goes to tune cycle
> > > > then all LEDs light up and entire panel is
> > > > functional. Still no sound
> > > > but this is a great milestone. Two problems
> I
> > > see
> > > > are sequential
> > > > board is dead which I think I'm on top of.
> > This
>; > > is
> > > > PCB9 which I over
> > > > voltaged when I put the 12V regulator in
> > instead
> > > of
> > > > 5V (due to poor
> > > > documentation this is an option for tape or
> > > wafer
> > > > drive). I think
> > > > this will be easy to fix but I was hoping to
> > > help on
> > > > one clue. There
> > > > is a window showing voices 1 thru 5 and
> below
> > 6
> > > thru
> > > > 10. The top 1
> > > > thru 5 show 1,3, and 4 LEDs on continously
> > never
> > > > changing. The bottom
> > > > 6 thru 10 change as I hit the keys as if it
> is
> > > > responding however LED
> > > > 7 never comes on. Can someone offer advice.
> I
> > > have 4
> > > > CEM3310s out on
> > > > the top voice board. It is to my
> understanding
> > I
> > > may
> > > > get a noise out
> > > > if configured right to see functionality
> > before
> > > I
> > > > buy expensive chips.
> > > >
> > > > Sorry long but I am very happy to be at this
> > > status.
> > > > Can sequencer
> > > > shut down operation. Was curious, should I
> get
> > > sound
> > > > without
> > > > sequencer.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com,
> > > "Frank
> > > > Simon"
> > > > ..> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I did find a chip pulling down DB4 on U311
> > it
> > > is a
> > > > 6514 4K CMOS
> > > > RAM. Thank god for IC sockets. The only
> > problem
> > > I'm
> > > > a little confused
> > > >; on a cross for it. It appears obsolete. It
> is
>
=== message truncated ===

__________________________________________________________
Sent from Yahoo! Mail.
A Smarter Email http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html

Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 dead

2008-06-07 by John Loffink

Try Great Plains Electronics for obsolete memory parts.  They have 
6114s, which I think may be a cross for those for other parts, $2.00 
each.  I've used Great Plains in the past and found they had the best 
prices, service and availability.

Frank Simon wrote:
> Thanks. I found some 6514 on ebay. There are alot of variety I have to 
> learn. There are NM and HM prefixes both by Harris. Plus -5,-8, -9 
> suffixes. Do you know general summary of this information. I will 
> search for datasheet.
>
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     *From:* Philip <mailto:eggwheatis@...>
>     *To:* vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
>     <mailto:vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com>
>     *Sent:* Saturday, June 07, 2008 8:25 AM
>     *Subject:* Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 dead
>
>     Cool..I checked with my electronics guru friend and he
>     said I am correct about this.
>
>     5114 5514 is used in old arcade games like Williams
>     Robotron or Joust btw, so check vintage arcade part
>     suppliers too.
>
>     Good luck, Phil.
>
>     --- Frank Simon <fsimon001@...
>     <mailto:fsimon001@...>> wrote:
>
>

-- 
John Loffink
The Microtonal Synthesis Web Site
http://www.microtonal-synthesis.com
The Wavemakers Synthesizer Web Site
http://www.wavemakers-synth.com

Re: Prophet 10 dead

2008-06-08 by fsimon100

The control panel (micro computer system)is working. I am planning to 
set the ADSR soon. Right now I verified EQ board is good by injecting 
audio generator. I attached a schematic section to discuss a bug with 
the sequencer. Once I resolve this I should have a CEM3310 issue and 
I may have a P10. If anyone has a P10 schematic or wants to look at 
my attachment, I wanted to ask help with something. If I ground pin 1 
on the 4556B decoder the sequencer panel lights up and I hear the 
tape deck come alive. So I am not getting a logic Low out the gate 
feeding the decoder enable. This schematic is not like my Sequncer 
board schematic but basically my -IOREQ output from Z80 needs to go 
Low but is not. Not sure if this is still a hardware problem (which I 
see how) or a firmware issue EPROM.

I attached a schematic page in the Files section called P10 Sequencer


--- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Jones 
<thirteentech@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> I would have to go look at the schematic, but from
> memory I think that it would work.
> 
> 
> --- Frank Simon <fsimon001@...> wrote:
> 
> > Thanks. Shouldn't I be able to Inject an audio
> > generator on the coax connecting the voice board to
> > the EQ board to prove the EQ board functional.
> >   ----- Original Message ----- 
> >   From: Stephen Jones 
> >   To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com 
> >   Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 5:56 AM
> >   Subject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10
> > dead
> > 
> > 
> >   No sound because no stored patches.
> > 
> >   Put your oscilloscope on some of the VCO wave
> > output
> >   pins and see if there is an audio waveform there.
> > If
> >   there is, play some keys and see if the frequency
> >   changes. If it doesn't, push the autotune button
> > and
> >   see if the VCO frequency sweeps as the auto tune
> >   process occurs. This will tell you if the computer
> > is
> >   talking to the sample and holds, and if they in
> > turn
> >   are driving the VCO's. 
> > 
> >   If you get that far, put your scope on the outputs
> > of
> >   the VCF's, and see if there is a signal there.
> > Before
> >   you do this make sure that you set up a basic
> > patch on
> >   the front panel with VCO's turned on, mixer up, no
> > VCO
> >   of VCF modulation, VCF cutoff open, resonance
> > down,
> >   zero attack and decay of the 2 ADSR's, and so on. 
> > 
> >   If there is filter output, move on to the voice
> >   channel VCA's, and finally the master VCA. The EQ
> >   board is another common failure. 
> > 
> >   --- fsimon100 <fsimon001@...> wrote:
> > 
> >   > I truly had a great day. I replaced a 1Kx4 RAM
> > and
> >   > resolved my 
> >   > computer problem on my P10. Now all LEDs light
> > up
> >   > and the unit 
> >   > behaves somewhat functional. Upon turn on the
> > unit
> >   > goes to tune cycle 
> >   > then all LEDs light up and entire panel is
> >   > functional. Still no sound 
> >   > but this is a great milestone. Two problems I
> > see
> >   > are sequential 
> >   > board is dead which I think I'm on top of. This
> > is
> >   > PCB9 which I over 
> >   > voltaged when I put the 12V regulator in instead
> > of
> >   > 5V (due to poor 
> >   > documentation this is an option for tape or
> > wafer
> >   > drive). I think 
> >   > this will be easy to fix but I was hoping to
> > help on
> >   > one clue. There 
> >   > is a window showing voices 1 thru 5 and below 6
> > thru
> >   > 10. The top 1 
> >   > thru 5 show 1,3, and 4 LEDs on continously never
> >   > changing. The bottom 
> >   > 6 thru 10 change as I hit the keys as if it is
> >   > responding however LED 
> >   > 7 never comes on. Can someone offer advice. I
> > have 4
> >   > CEM3310s out on 
> >   > the top voice board. It is to my understanding I
> > may
> >   > get a noise out 
> >   > if configured right to see functionality before
> > I
> >   > buy expensive chips.
> >   > 
> >   > Sorry long but I am very happy to be at this
> > status.
> >   > Can sequencer 
> >   > shut down operation. Was curious, should I get
> > sound
> >   > without 
> >   > sequencer.
> >   > 
> >   > 
> >   > 
> >   > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com,
> > "Frank
> >   > Simon" 
> >   > <fsimon001@> wrote:
> >   > >
> >   > > I did find a chip pulling down DB4 on U311 it
> > is a
> >   > 6514 4K CMOS 
> >   > RAM. Thank god for IC sockets. The only problem
> > I'm
> >   > a little confused 
> >   > on a cross for it. It appears obsolete. It is
> > called
> >   > D444C on the 
> >   > chip and 6514 on schematic. Can anyone offer
> > advice
> >   > on a cross.
> >   > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> >   > > From: fsimon100 
> >   > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com 
> >   > > Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 8:58 AM
> >   > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Prophet 10 dead
> >   > > 
> >   > > 
> >   > > Was curiouse if anyone can offer help. I
> > bought
> >   > a dead P10 no 
> >   > lights 
> >   > > or anything. The processor is good. I put
> > logic
> >   > analyzer on 
> >   > decoder 
> >   > > output and see ROM1 (Y0) and RAM (Y5)(which I
> >   > believe is the 
> >   > scratch 
> >   > > pad memory)active at start up. All address
> > buses
> >   > and Data buses 
> >   > are 
> >   > > active. I am not certain the algorithm. A flow
> >   > chart would be 
> >   > nice or 
> >   > > some help with what I should see at some
> >   > critical points. I am 
> >   > > wondering if there is a chance the ROMs lost
> >   > programming and how 
> >   > would 
> >   > > I know. Even if they did shouldn't lights
> > and/or
> >   > display come on. 
> >   > And 
> >   > > yes the power supplies are good.
> >   > >
> >   > 
> >   > 
> >   > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >
>

Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 dead

2008-06-08 by Frank Simon

Can you tell me what you think of the 6114? I can get them for $2
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message -----
From: Philip
Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2008 1:30 AM
Subject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 dead

Yeh...Scratchpad can use standard 2114. NV ram = Non
volatile IE User patch memory..which is obviously
battery backed-upped and so uses 5114/6514 CMOS ram
due to it's low current drain.

Therefore the 2114 will probably drain the memory
battery very quickly due to the higher current drain
of NMOS technology.

2114 is not compatible with 5114 in this situation,
sure it will get it to work in the short term..I've
done it myself popped in a 2114 to check
circuits...5114 5514 6514 D444C are all crosses of
each other. They are all hard to find too. 2114 is
easy to get.

If anyone knows better you are welcome to correct me
of course!

Phil.

--- Frank Simon <fsimon001@neo.rr.com> wrote:

> I like to hear these details. Off the decoder is
> NV1,NV2, and Scratch RAM. On my schematic my
> scratchpad RAM are two 2114s. The part that failed
> was as you know a D444C and was part of NV1. All of
> these are 1K x 4bit. The NV memory on my schematic
> say 6514. But at least putting the 2114 in showed me
> the failed part. If you think the 6514 is more
> compatible with 5114 I'll replace it. Do you know
> details of 6514.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Philip
> To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 9:43 PM
> Subject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10
> dead
>
>
> Well you should have used a 5114 not a 2114, that
> I'm
> pretty sure of, will cause you problems.
>
> A 2114 is not a cmos device, it is an
> nmos..therefore
> they use different currents..a D444 is pretty fast
> too
> 12ns or something.
>
> For instance patch memory: a 5114 connected to a
> 3v
> lithium battery will last years..but with 2114 it
> will
> last a few days.
>
> Perhaps others with better knowledge than me on
> this
> subject can explain further?
>
> Phil.
>
> --- Frank Simon <fsimon001@neo.rr.com> wrote:
>
> > I found an Motorola MCM2114P45 from a ebay
> seller
> > for $3. I was hesitant because it was their
> slowest
> > access time part at 450nS. I don't know what the
> > D444C access time spec is. I figured it was
> around
> > 200nS but hopefully the 450 is ok.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Philip
> > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 8:21 AM
> > Subject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10
> > dead
> >
> >
> > Excellent news, well done..so did you use the
> Ram
> > I
> > suggested? Or did you find a 444?
> >
> > Thanks, Phil.
> >
> > --- fsimon100 <fsimon001@neo.rr.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I truly had a great day. I replaced a 1Kx4 RAM
> > and
> > > resolved my
> > > computer problem on my P10. Now all LEDs light
> > up
> > > and the unit
> > > behaves somewhat functional. Upon turn on the
> > unit
> > > goes to tune cycle
> > > then all LEDs light up and entire panel is
> > >; functional. Still no sound
> > > but this is a great milestone. Two problems I
> > see
> > > are sequential
> > > board is dead which I think I'm on top of.
> This
> > is
> > > PCB9 which I over
> > >; voltaged when I put the 12V regulator in
> instead
> > of
> > > 5V (due to poor
> > > documentation this is an option for tape or
> > wafer
> > > drive). I think
> > > this will be easy to fix but I was hoping to
> > help on
> > > one clue. There
> > > is a window showing voices 1 thru 5 and below
> 6
> > thru
> > > 10. The top 1
> > > thru 5 show 1,3, and 4 LEDs on continously
> never
> > > changing. The bottom
> > > 6 thru 10 change as I hit the keys as if it is
> > > responding however LED
> > > 7 never comes on. Can someone offer advice. I
> > have 4
> > > CEM3310s out on
> > > the top voice board. It is to my understanding
> I
> > may
> > > get a noise out
> > > if configured right to see functionality
> before
> > I
> > > buy expensive chips.
> > >
> > > Sorry long but I am very happy to be at this
> > status.
> > > Can sequencer
> > > shut down operation. Was curious, should I get
> > sound
> > > without
> > > sequencer.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com,
> > "Frank
> > > Simon"
> >; > ..> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I did find a chip pulling down DB4 on U311
> it
> > is a
> > > 6514 4K CMOS
> > > RAM. Thank god for IC sockets. The only
> problem
> > I'm
>; > > a little confused
> > > on a cross for it. It appears obsolete. It is
> > called
> > > D444C on the
> > > chip and 6514 on schematic. Can anyone offer
>; > advice
> > > on a cross.
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: fsimon100
> > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 8:58 AM
> > > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Prophet 10
> dead
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Was curiouse if anyone can offer help. I
> > bought
> > > a dead P10 no
> > > lights
> > > > or anything. The processor is good. I put
> > logic
> > > analyzer on
> > > decoder
> > > > output and see ROM1 (Y0) and RAM (Y5)(which
> I
> > > believe is the
> > > scratch
> > > > pad memory)active at start up. All address
> > buses
> > > and Data buses
> >; > are
> > > > active. I am not certain the algorithm. A
> flow
> > > chart would be
> > > nice or
> > > > some help with what I should see at some
> > > critical points. I am
> > > > wondering if there is a chance the ROMs lost
> > > programming and how
> > > would
> > > > I know. Even if they did shouldn't lights
> > and/or
> > > display come on.
> > > And
> > > > yes the power supplies are good.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
__________________________________________________________
> > Sent from Yahoo! Mail.
> > A Smarter Email
> > http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
> >
> >
> >
>
=== message truncated ===

__________________________________________________________
Sent from Yahoo! Mail.
A Smarter Email http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html

Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 dead

2008-06-09 by Frank Simon

Well the P10 is working!! Somewhat. It is acting crazy though. I loaded 5 of the 6 CEM3310s in the VCA position (4 of the 5 VCF 3310s were not populated because I am missing 4. Also I am missing one NV RAM because I pulled it out because it was shorting the Data Bus and I didn't want to leave the 2114 in because it kills the battery. As I stated also the sequencer circuit is dead. Not sure if this affects stability of the system. One may ask how in the hell can this thing be functioning. It has different sounds coming off the presets (I don't see how it had a dead battery when I got it). It has a continuous oscillator noise but is responsive to the keys. And this is a certain configuration of the front panel. I know I have to dork with it to get sound. 3 of the 5 LEDs stay on for voices 1 thru 5 and never move. the bottom 6 thru 10 respond to the keys but 7 is always dead.
I guess I will grit my teeth and look for 4 CEM3310s. I might actually fix this thing.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message -----
From: fsimon100
Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2008 11:42 PM
Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10 dead

The control panel (micro computer system)is working. I am planning to
set the ADSR soon. Right now I verified EQ board is good by injecting
audio generator. I attached a schematic section to discuss a bug with
the sequencer. Once I resolve this I should have a CEM3310 issue and
I may have a P10. If anyone has a P10 schematic or wants to look at
my attachment, I wanted to ask help with something. If I ground pin 1
on the 4556B decoder the sequencer panel lights up and I hear the
tape deck come alive. So I am not getting a logic Low out the gate
feeding the decoder enable. This schematic is not like my Sequncer
board schematic but basically my -IOREQ output from Z80 needs to go
Low but is not. Not sure if this is still a hardware problem (which I
see how) or a firmware issue EPROM.

I attached a schematic page in the Files section called P10 Sequencer

--- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Jones
...> wrote:
>
> I would have to go look at the schematic, but from
> memory I think that it would work.
>
>
>; --- Frank Simon ..> wrote:
>
> >; Thanks. Shouldn't I be able to Inject an audio
> > generator on the coax connecting the voice board to
> > the EQ board to prove the EQ board functional.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Stephen Jones
> > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 5:56 AM
> > Subject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Prophet 10
> > dead
> >
> >
> > No sound because no stored patches.
> >
> > Put your oscilloscope on some of the VCO wave
> > output
> > pins and see if there is an audio waveform there.
> > If
> > there is, play some keys and see if the frequency
> > changes. If it doesn't, push the autotune button
> > and
> > see if the VCO frequency sweeps as the auto tune
> > process occurs. This will tell you if the computer
> > is
> > talking to the sample and holds, and if they in
> > turn
> > are driving the VCO's.
> >
> > If you get that far, put your scope on the outputs
> > of
> > the VCF's, and see if there is a signal there.
> > Before
> > you do this make sure that you set up a basic
> > patch on
> > the front panel with VCO's turned on, mixer up, no
> > VCO
> > of VCF modulation, VCF cutoff open, resonance
> > down,
> > zero attack and decay of the 2 ADSR's, and so on.
> >
> > If there is filter output, move on to the voice
> > channel VCA's, and finally the master VCA. The EQ
> > board is another common failure.
> >
> > --- fsimon100 ..> wrote:
> >
> > > I truly had a great day. I replaced a 1Kx4 RAM
> > and
> > > resolved my
> > > computer problem on my P10. Now all LEDs light
> > up
> > > and the unit
> > > behaves somewhat functional. Upon turn on the
> > unit
> > > goes to tune cycle
> > > then all LEDs light up and entire panel is
> > > functional. Still no sound
> > > but this is a great milestone. Two problems I
> > see
> > > are sequential
> > > board is dead which I think I'm on top of. This
> > is
> > > PCB9 which I over
> > > voltaged when I put the 12V regulator in instead
> > of
> > > 5V (due to poor
> > > documentation this is an option for tape or
> > wafer
> > >; drive). I think
> > > this will be easy to fix but I was hoping to
> > help on
> > > one clue. There
> > > is a window showing voices 1 thru 5 and below 6
> > thru
> > > 10. The top 1
> > > thru 5 show 1,3, and 4 LEDs on continously never
> > > changing. The bottom
> > > 6 thru 10 change as I hit the keys as if it is
> > > responding however LED
> > > 7 never comes on. Can someone offer advice. I
> > have 4
> > > CEM3310s out on
> > > the top voice board. It is to my understanding I
> > may
> > > get a noise out
> > >; if configured right to see functionality before
> > I
> > > buy expensive chips.
> > >
> > > Sorry long but I am very happy to be at this
> > status.
> > > Can sequencer
> > > shut down operation. Was curious, should I get
> > sound
> > > without
> > > sequencer.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com,
> > "Frank
> > > Simon"
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I did find a chip pulling down DB4 on U311 it
> > is a
> > > 6514 4K CMOS
> > > RAM. Thank god for IC sockets. The only problem
> > I'm
> > > a little confused
> > > on a cross for it. It appears obsolete. It is
> > called
> > > D444C on the
> > > chip and 6514 on schematic. Can anyone offer
> > advice
> > > on a cross.
>; > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: fsimon100
> > > > To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 8:58 AM
> > > > Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Prophet 10 dead
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Was curiouse if anyone can offer help. I
> > bought
> > > a dead P10 no
> > > lights
> > > > or anything. The processor is good. I put
> > logic
> > > analyzer on
> > > decoder
> > > > output and see ROM1 (Y0) and RAM (Y5)(which I
> > > believe is the
> > > scratch
> > > > pad memory)active at start up. All address
> > buses
> > > and Data buses
> > > are
> > > > active. I am not certain the algorithm. A flow
> > > chart would be
> > > nice or
> > > > some help with what I should see at some
> > > critical points. I am
> > > > wondering if there is a chance the ROMs lost
> > > programming and how
> > > would
> > > > I know. Even if they did shouldn't lights
> > and/or
> > > display come on.
> > > And
> > > > yes the power supplies are good.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

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