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Roland SH-7 sync problem

Roland SH-7 sync problem

2012-12-11 by Peter Mörck

Hi,
I'm trying to troubleshoot my SH-7 with serial 670xxx (so looks like the first version).
I haven't had it for a long time and the first thing I had to do was to replace the CV mode switch as it made the pitch unstable.
I also had to calibrate the VCO2 waveshape for the triangle wave as it was more of a saw than triangle, but it looks and sounds good now.
When testing all the functions before putting the synth in the stand, I noticed I can't get osc sync to work.
Instead of retriggering, it just seems to jump between octaves.
To test this, I've enabled the sync switch, set VCO2 to saw and put a slow LFO mod on it (also tried autobend). Only VCO2 volume in the mixer.
No attack, max decay, max sustain, no release. Simple.
If I press C3, what I get is a continuous note, as expected, but something like:
C3----C4--C3----C4--C3----C4--C3----C4-- (with slightly varying volume, which I can understand)
So, instead of retriggering the wave at every sync pulse, it just seems to do nothing, until it can retrigger it often enough to make it 1 octave higher, or lower.
I'm not an expert in analog circuits but I've been trying to figure out how the VCO frequency generation works, and the reset mechanism.
It seems the VCOs first generate a much higher frequency (top octave?) than the final frequency. This is then divided down in LM3216 (IC407 on VCO2), depending on the range and transpose switches settings. The sync pulse seems to be affecting the oscillator frequency before the divide-down takes place.
I think I have found where this frequency octave jumping takes place though.
It seems to be at IC405 (DN819), which is a 4-pin IC toggle flip-flop. As the "period retrigger" pulses from the same oscillator reach the input, it toggles the output.
However, when the retrigger pulses get more frequent and can occur more than once in a period of the master oscillator trigger pulse interval, it of course toggles more than once during that period, causing an increase in pitch.
Perhaps this is the way it should be but it looks really strange to me.
It could be that this is just used to retrigger, and not actually control the pitch, as this perhaps is generated separately (on the lower half of the VCO schematic) and just uses the retrigger pulses generated by the divider circuit.
I realize this is very difficult to help with, only going by my description, but does anybody have any suggestion as to what might be causing sync to not actually sync, but just make an octave jump?
Also, I've read that the SH-7 sync sounds "different", but I haven't heard it so I'm not sure what I should try to achieve...
Any SH-7 owners here with experience of failing sync?
Long shot... :/
Cheers,
Peter

Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Roland SH-7 sync problem

2012-12-13 by Peter Mörck

Never mind.
This is apparently the way it works.
Found a good explanation in AH archives.
It has some sort of soft-like sync which only syncs VCO2 to multiples of VCO1 (thus classic hard sync sweeps are not possible).
Along with the filter, it's apparently one of its weak spots.
I'm inclined to agree.
Move along.
/Peter
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 12:30 AM
Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Roland SH-7 sync problem

Hi,
I'm trying to troubleshoot my SH-7 with serial 670xxx (so looks like the first version).
I haven't had it for a long time and the first thing I had to do was to replace the CV mode switch as it made the pitch unstable.
I also had to calibrate the VCO2 waveshape for the triangle wave as it was more of a saw than triangle, but it looks and sounds good now.
When testing all the functions before putting the synth in the stand, I noticed I can't get osc sync to work.
Instead of retriggering, it just seems to jump between octaves.
To test this, I've enabled the sync switch, set VCO2 to saw and put a slow LFO mod on it (also tried autobend). Only VCO2 volume in the mixer.
No attack, max decay, max sustain, no release. Simple.
If I press C3, what I get is a continuous note, as expected, but something like:
C3----C4--C3----C4--C3----C4--C3----C4-- (with slightly varying volume, which I can understand)
So, instead of retriggering the wave at every sync pulse, it just seems to do nothing, until it can retrigger it often enough to make it 1 octave higher, or lower.
I'm not an expert in analog circuits but I've been trying to figure out how the VCO frequency generation works, and the reset mechanism.
It seems the VCOs first generate a much higher frequency (top octave?) than the final frequency. This is then divided down in LM3216 (IC407 on VCO2), depending on the range and transpose switches settings. The sync pulse seems to be affecting the oscillator frequency before the divide-down takes place.
;
I think I have found where this frequency octave jumping takes place though.
It seems to be at IC405 (DN819), which is a 4-pin IC toggle flip-flop. As the "period retrigger" pulses from the same oscillator reach the input, it toggles the output.
However, when the retrigger pulses get more frequent and can occur more than once in a period of the master oscillator trigger pulse interval, it of course toggles more than once during that period, causing an increase in pitch.
Perhaps this is the way it should be but it looks really strange to me.
It could be that this is just used to retrigger, and not actually control the pitch, as this perhaps is generated separately (on the lower half of the VCO schematic) and just uses the retrigger pulses generated by the divider circuit.
I realize this is very difficult to help with, only going by my description, but does anybody have any suggestion as to what might be causing sync to not actually sync, but just make an octave jump?
Also, I've read that the SH-7 sync sounds "different", but I haven't heard it so I'm not sure what I should try to achieve...
Any SH-7 owners here with experience of failing sync?
Long shot... :/
Cheers,
Peter

Any DX7 gurus in the house?

2012-12-14 by Jim Blair

I have a sick DX7S, and am trying to bring it back to life. If 
there's some DX guys hanging around, I'll post the details.


Thanks!


Jim

Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Any DX7 gurus in the house?

2012-12-14 by Roger J

Mostly they loose their switching supply, often one of the caps(loop back) go down in value, causing the dirty or no DC voltages.

Yamaha is having a service clinic during NAMM, anyone in this group attending?
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>________________________________
> From: Jim Blair <ceratos@...>
>To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com 
>Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 4:11 PM
>Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Any DX7 gurus in the house?
> 
>
>  
>I have a sick DX7S, and am trying to bring it back to life. If 
>there's some DX guys hanging around, I'll post the details.
>
>Thanks!
>
>Jim
>
>
> 
>
>

Arp challenge.

2012-12-17 by Jim Blair

Hello!

Here's an odd one up for discussion. I have a Arp ProDGX. Everything 
works fine....except.....if I hit the top key (highest note) it 
briefly plays the note, then very quickly drops down to a much lower 
note (almost instantaneously). After this little event, every key 
stops working, other than a click for each note.

This happens on every patch.

Then, if I turn the power off, then back on, everything is fine again 
until the next time I hit that highest note.

Any suggestions on where to point my screwdriver and multimeter?


Thanks,

Jim Blair
Ape Island Sound
http://www.facebook.com/ApeIslandSound

Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Arp challenge.

2012-12-17 by Daniel Forró

Hi, Jim,

I've got also ProDGX, fortunately without problems. I can't help with  
your problem, so have just one question: do you have Service  
Documentation? This I can send to you.

I'd start with power supply check, then cleaning and reseating  
connectors, re-seat IC's in sockets, check PCB tracks, calibrate  
everything as written in SM... usual staff. Then check keyboard  
circuits, ROMs... Recapping can help, too, at least electrolytic  
capacitors.

Daniel Forro
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On 17 Dec, 2012, at 6:03 PM, Jim Blair wrote:

> Hello!
>
> Here's an odd one up for discussion. I have a Arp ProDGX. Everything
> works fine....except.....if I hit the top key (highest note) it
> briefly plays the note, then very quickly drops down to a much lower
> note (almost instantaneously). After this little event, every key
> stops working, other than a click for each note.
>
> This happens on every patch.
>
> Then, if I turn the power off, then back on, everything is fine again
> until the next time I hit that highest note.
>
> Any suggestions on where to point my screwdriver and multimeter?
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jim Blair
> Ape Island Sound
> http://www.facebook.com/ApeIslandSound

Re: Arp challenge.

2012-12-17 by scituate_mass

Hi Jim,

The fact that the rest of the keyboard works fine seems to rule out that the sample hold function is awry. Does the note stay at the correct frequency if you hold it down? Is it only pitch dropping on the release? Have you checked to make sure the Jwires are aligned properly on that key? Maybe open it up and check to ensure that the contact wires on that top key are aligned the same way as for all the others. If not, bend them back carefully to match the others.

(but I'm not really a tech, so don't just listen to me). 

best DT


--- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, Jim Blair <ceratos@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Hello!
> 
> Here's an odd one up for discussion. I have a Arp ProDGX. Everything 
> works fine....except.....if I hit the top key (highest note) it 
> briefly plays the note, then very quickly drops down to a much lower 
> note (almost instantaneously). After this little event, every key 
> stops working, other than a click for each note.
> 
> This happens on every patch.
> 
> Then, if I turn the power off, then back on, everything is fine again 
> until the next time I hit that highest note.
> 
> Any suggestions on where to point my screwdriver and multimeter?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Jim Blair
> Ape Island Sound
> http://www.facebook.com/ApeIslandSound
>

Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Arp challenge.

2012-12-17 by Jim Blair

Thanks for your reply, DT.

No sample and hold on the ProDGX.

The note does not stay at the correct frequency when held. The pitch drop happens immediately on "note on".

J wires are aligned, and cleaned, as is the bar.


Jim


At 05:34 AM 12/17/2012, you wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text


Hi Jim,

The fact that the rest of the keyboard works fine seems to rule out that the sample hold function is awry. Does the note stay at the correct frequency if you hold it down? Is it only pitch dropping on the release? Have you checked to make sure the Jwires are aligned properly on that key? Maybe open it up and check to ensure that the contact wires on that top key are aligned the same way as for all the others. If not, bend them back carefully to match the others.

(but I'm not really a tech, so don't just listen to me).

best DT

--- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, Jim Blair wrote:
>
> Hello!
>
> Here's an odd one up for discussion. I have a Arp ProDGX. Everything
> works fine....except.....if I hit the top key (highest note) it
> briefly plays the note, then very quickly drops down to a much lower
> note (almost instantaneously). After this little event, every key
> stops working, other than a click for each note.
>
> This happens on every patch.
>
> Then, if I turn the power off, then back on, everything is fine again
> until the next time I hit that highest note.
>
> Any suggestions on where to point my screwdriver and multimeter?
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jim Blair
> Ape Island Sound
> http://www.facebook.com/ApeIslandSound
>



No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2433/5087 - Release Date: 06/22/12
Internal Virus Database is out of date.

Re: Arp challenge.

2012-12-17 by dwv1957

Since all the other keys work, I would suspect the problem is the key it's self.
Does the ProDGX use a resistor or diode keyboard?
Either way, check for a bad resistor/diode on the suspect key, also look for cracked solder joints, or possibly a short to the gate or after-touch buss.

On a side note, do you live on Vancouver Island?

Dave

--- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, Jim Blair <ceratos@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Thanks for your reply, DT.
> 
> No sample and hold on the ProDGX.
> 
> The note does not stay at the correct frequency 
> when held. The pitch drop happens immediately on "note on".
> 
> J wires are aligned, and cleaned, as is the bar.
> 
> 
> Jim
> 
> 
> At 05:34 AM 12/17/2012, you wrote:
> >
> >
> >Hi Jim,
> >
> >The fact that the rest of the keyboard works 
> >fine seems to rule out that the sample hold 
> >function is awry. Does the note stay at the 
> >correct frequency if you hold it down? Is it 
> >only pitch dropping on the release? Have you 
> >checked to make sure the Jwires are aligned 
> >properly on that key? Maybe open it up and check 
> >to ensure that the contact wires on that top key 
> >are aligned the same way as for all the others. 
> >If not, bend them back carefully to match the others.
> >
> >(but I'm not really a tech, so don't just listen to me).
> >
> >best DT
> >
> >--- In 
> ><mailto:vintagesynthrepair%40yahoogroups.com>vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, 
> >Jim Blair <ceratos@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello!
> > >
> > > Here's an odd one up for discussion. I have a Arp ProDGX. Everything
> > > works fine....except.....if I hit the top key (highest note) it
> > > briefly plays the note, then very quickly drops down to a much lower
> > > note (almost instantaneously). After this little event, every key
> > > stops working, other than a click for each note.
> > >
> > > This happens on every patch.
> > >
> > > Then, if I turn the power off, then back on, everything is fine again
> > > until the next time I hit that highest note.
> > >
> > > Any suggestions on where to point my screwdriver and multimeter?
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Jim Blair
> > > Ape Island Sound
> > > 
> > <http://www.facebook.com/ApeIslandSound>http://www.facebook.com/ApeIslandSound
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >No virus found in this message.
> >Checked by AVG - <http://www.avg.com>www.avg.com
> >Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2433/5087 - Release Date: 06/22/12
> >Internal Virus Database is out of date.
>

Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Arp challenge.

2012-12-17 by Jim Blair

Hey thanks Dave.

And yes, I do live on Vancouver Island.

I operate a small recording studio that specializes in vintage keyboards.

http://www.facebook.com/ApeIslandSound

Are you in the area?


Jim



At 11:27 AM 12/17/2012, you wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text


Since all the other keys work, I would suspect the problem is the key it's self.
Does the ProDGX use a resistor or diode keyboard?
Either way, check for a bad resistor/diode on the suspect key, also look for cracked solder joints, or possibly a short to the gate or after-touch buss.

On a side note, do you live on Vancouver Island?

Dave

--- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, Jim Blair wrote:
>
>; Thanks for your reply, DT.
>
> No sample and hold on the ProDGX.
>
> The note does not stay at the correct frequency
> when held. The pitch drop happens immediately on "note on".
>
> J wires are aligned, and cleaned, as is the bar.
>
>
> Jim
>
>
> At 05:34 AM 12/17/2012, you wrote:
> >
> >
> >Hi Jim,
>; >
> >The fact that the rest of the keyboard works
> >fine seems to rule out that the sample hold
> >function is awry. Does the note stay at the
> >correct frequency if you hold it down? Is it
> >only pitch dropping on the release? Have you
> >checked to make sure the Jwires are aligned
> >properly on that key? Maybe open it up and check
> >to ensure that the contact wires on that top key
> >are aligned the same way as for all the others.
> >If not, bend them back carefully to match the others.
> >
> >(but I'm not really a tech, so don't just listen to me).
> >
> >best DT
> >
> >--- In
> >< mailto:vintagesynthrepair%40yahoogroups.com > vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com,
> >Jim Blair wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello!
> > >
> > > Here's an odd one up for discussion. I have a Arp ProDGX. Everything
> > > works fine....except.....if I hit the top key (highest note) it
> > > briefly plays the note, then very quickly drops down to a much lower
> > > note (almost instantaneously). After this little event, every key
> > > stops working, other than a click for each note.
> > >
> > > This happens on every patch.
> > >
> > > Then, if I turn the power off, then back on, everything is fine again
> > > until the next time I hit that highest note.
> > >
> > > Any suggestions on where to point my screwdriver and multimeter?
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> >; >
> > > Jim Blair
> > > Ape Island Sound
> > >
> > < http://www.facebook.com/ApeIslandSound > http://www.facebook.com/ApeIslandSound
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >No virus found in this message.
> >Checked by AVG - <http://www.avg.com >www.avg.com
> >;Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2433/5087 - Release Date: 06/22/12
> >Internal Virus Database is out of date.
>



No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2433/5087 - Release Date: 06/22/12
Internal Virus Database is out of date.

Re: Arp challenge.

2012-12-17 by The Wizard

Totally awesome!
Not only your collection of keyboards (mine range from the early 70's with my ARP 2500 to the early 90's), but that you're living in/on one of my all-time favorite places in the world!
(I'm presently exploring moving to the Seattle area in the next few months, so maybe I'll have to take a ferry over sometime and pay you a visit.)
In harmony,
---Kevin

--- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, Jim Blair <ceratos@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Hey thanks Dave.
> 
> And yes, I do live on Vancouver Island.
> 
> I operate a small recording studio that specializes in vintage keyboards.
> 
> http://www.facebook.com/ApeIslandSound
> 
> Are you in the area?
> 
> 
> Jim
> 
> 
> 
> At 11:27 AM 12/17/2012, you wrote:
> >
> >
> >Since all the other keys work, I would suspect 
> >the problem is the key it's self.
> >Does the ProDGX use a resistor or diode keyboard?
> >Either way, check for a bad resistor/diode on 
> >the suspect key, also look for cracked solder 
> >joints, or possibly a short to the gate or after-touch buss.
> >
> >On a side note, do you live on Vancouver Island?
> >
> >Dave
> >
> >--- In 
> ><mailto:vintagesynthrepair%40yahoogroups.com>vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, 
> >Jim Blair <ceratos@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Thanks for your reply, DT.
> > >
> > > No sample and hold on the ProDGX.
> > >
> > > The note does not stay at the correct frequency
> > > when held. The pitch drop happens immediately on "note on".
> > >
> > > J wires are aligned, and cleaned, as is the bar.
> > >
> > >
> > > Jim
> > >
> > >
> > > At 05:34 AM 12/17/2012, you wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Hi Jim,
> > > >
> > > >The fact that the rest of the keyboard works
> > > >fine seems to rule out that the sample hold
> > > >function is awry. Does the note stay at the
> > > >correct frequency if you hold it down? Is it
> > > >only pitch dropping on the release? Have you
> > > >checked to make sure the Jwires are aligned
> > > >properly on that key? Maybe open it up and check
> > > >to ensure that the contact wires on that top key
> > > >are aligned the same way as for all the others.
> > > >If not, bend them back carefully to match the others.
> > > >
> > > >(but I'm not really a tech, so don't just listen to me).
> > > >
> > > >best DT
> > > >
> > > >--- In
> > > ><mailto:vintagesynthrepair%40yahoogroups.com> 
> > <mailto:vintagesynthrepair%40yahoogroups.com>vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, 
> >
> > > >Jim Blair <ceratos@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hello!
> > > > >
> > > > > Here's an odd one up for discussion. I have a Arp ProDGX. Everything
> > > > > works fine....except.....if I hit the top key (highest note) it
> > > > > briefly plays the note, then very quickly drops down to a much lower
> > > > > note (almost instantaneously). After this little event, every key
> > > > > stops working, other than a click for each note.
> > > > >
> > > > > This happens on every patch.
> > > > >
> > > > > Then, if I turn the power off, then back on, everything is fine again
> > > > > until the next time I hit that highest note.
> > > > >
> > > > > Any suggestions on where to point my screwdriver and multimeter?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > > Jim Blair
> > > > > Ape Island Sound
> > > > >
> > > > 
> > <<http://www.facebook.com/ApeIslandSound>http://www.facebook.com/ApeIslandSound>http://www.facebook.com/ApeIslandSound
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >No virus found in this message.
> > > >Checked by AVG - <<http://www.avg.com>http://www.avg.com>www.avg.com
> > > >Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2433/5087 - Release Date: 06/22/12
> > > >Internal Virus Database is out of date.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >No virus found in this message.
> >Checked by AVG - <http://www.avg.com>www.avg.com
> >Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2433/5087 - Release Date: 06/22/12
> >Internal Virus Database is out of date.
>

Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Arp challenge.

2012-12-17 by Jim Blair

Thanks Kevin,

I'd love to see your collection. Do you have photos online?


Jim




At 12:19 PM 12/17/2012, you wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text


Totally awesome!
Not only your collection of keyboards (mine range from the early 70's with my ARP 2500 to the early 90's), but that you're living in/on one of my all-time favorite places in the world!
(I'm presently exploring moving to the Seattle area in the next few months, so maybe I'll have to take a ferry over sometime and pay you a visit.)
In harmony,
---Kevin

--- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, Jim Blair wrote:
>
> Hey thanks Dave.
>
> And yes, I do live on Vancouver Island.
>
> I operate a small recording studio that specializes in vintage keyboards.
>
> http://www.facebook.com/ApeIslandSound
>
> Are you in the area?
>
>
> Jim
>
>
>
> At 11:27 AM 12/17/2012, you wrote:
> >
> >
> >Since all the other keys work, I would suspect
> >the problem is the key it's self.
> >Does the ProDGX use a resistor or diode keyboard?
> >Either way, check for a bad resistor/diode on
> >the suspect key, also look for cracked solder
> >joints, or possibly a short to the gate or after-touch buss.
> >
> >On a side note, do you live on Vancouver Island?
> >
> >Dave
> >
> >--- In
> >< mailto:vintagesynthrepair%40yahoogroups.com > vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com,
> >Jim Blair wrote:
> > >
> > > Thanks for your reply, DT.
> > >
> > > No sample and hold on the ProDGX.
> > >
> > > The note does not stay at the correct frequency
> > > when held. The pitch drop happens immediately on "note on".
> > >
> > > J wires are aligned, and cleaned, as is the bar.
> > >
> > >
> > > Jim
> > >
> > >
> > > At 05:34 AM 12/17/2012, you wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Hi Jim,
> > > >
> > > >The fact that the rest of the keyboard works
> > > >fine seems to rule out that the sample hold
> > > >function is awry. Does the note stay at the
> > > >correct frequency if you hold it down? Is it
> > > >only pitch dropping on the release? Have you
> > > >checked to make sure the Jwires are aligned
> > > >properly on that key? Maybe open it up and check
> > > >to ensure that the contact wires on that top key
> > > >are aligned the same way as for all the others.
> > > >If not, bend them back carefully to match the others.
> > > >
> > > >(but I'm not really a tech, so don't just listen to me).
> > > >
> > > >best DT
> > > >
> > > >--- In
> > > >< mailto:vintagesynthrepair%40yahoogroups.com>
> > < mailto:vintagesynthrepair%40yahoogroups.com > vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com,
> >
> > > >Jim Blair wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hello!
> > > > >
> > > > > Here's an odd one up for discussion. I have a Arp ProDGX. Everything
>; > > > > works fine....except.....if I hit the top key (highest note) it
> > > > > briefly plays the note, then very quickly drops down to a much lower
> > > > > note (almost instantaneously). After this little event, every key
> > > > > stops working, other than a click for each note.
> > > > >
> > > > > This happens on every patch.
> > > > >
> > > > > Then, if I turn the power off, then back on, everything is fine again
> > > > > until the next time I hit that highest note.
> > > > >
> > > > > Any suggestions on where to point my screwdriver and multimeter?
> > > > >
> > > > >;
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >
>; > > > > Jim Blair
> > > > > Ape Island Sound
> > > > >
> > > >
> > << http://www.facebook.com/ApeIslandSound > http://www.facebook.com/ApeIslandSound>http://www.facebook.com/ApeIslandSound
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >No virus found in this message.
> > > >Checked by AVG - <<http://www.avg.com > http://www.avg.com>www.avg.com
>; > > >Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2433/5087 - Release Date: 06/22/12
> > > >Internal Virus Database is out of date.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >No virus found in this message.
> >Checked by AVG - <http://www.avg.com >www.avg.com
> >Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2433/5087 - Release Date: 06/22/12
> >Internal Virus Database is out of date.
>



No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2433/5087 - Release Date: 06/22/12
Internal Virus Database is out of date.

RE: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Arp challenge.

2012-12-18 by Lorne Hammond

Jim:  I've only seen one other mellotron, up island from Victoria.   Lorne
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Blair
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 12:08 PM
To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Arp challenge.

 

  

Hey thanks Dave.

And yes, I do live on Vancouver Island.

I operate a small recording studio that specializes in vintage keyboards.

http://www.facebook.com/ApeIslandSound

Are you in the area?


Jim



At 11:27 AM 12/17/2012, you wrote:

  

Since all the other keys work, I would suspect the problem is the key it's
self.
Does the ProDGX use a resistor or diode keyboard?
Either way, check for a bad resistor/diode on the suspect key, also look for
cracked solder joints, or possibly a short to the gate or after-touch buss.

On a side note, do you live on Vancouver Island?

Dave

--- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:vintagesynthrepair%40yahoogroups.com> , Jim Blair <ceratos@...>
wrote:
>
> Thanks for your reply, DT.
> 
> No sample and hold on the ProDGX.
> 
> The note does not stay at the correct frequency 
> when held. The pitch drop happens immediately on "note on".
> 
> J wires are aligned, and cleaned, as is the bar.
> 
> 
> Jim
> 
> 
> At 05:34 AM 12/17/2012, you wrote:
> >
> >
> >Hi Jim,
> >
> >The fact that the rest of the keyboard works 
> >fine seems to rule out that the sample hold 
> >function is awry. Does the note stay at the 
> >correct frequency if you hold it down? Is it 
> >only pitch dropping on the release? Have you 
> >checked to make sure the Jwires are aligned 
> >properly on that key? Maybe open it up and check 
> >to ensure that the contact wires on that top key 
> >are aligned the same way as for all the others. 
> >If not, bend them back carefully to match the others.
> >
> >(but I'm not really a tech, so don't just listen to me).
> >
> >best DT
> >
> >--- In 
> >< mailto:vintagesynthrepair%40yahoogroups.com
<mailto:vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com>  >
vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:vintagesynthrepair%40yahoogroups.com> , 
> >Jim Blair <ceratos@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello!
> > >
> > > Here's an odd one up for discussion. I have a Arp ProDGX. Everything
> > > works fine....except.....if I hit the top key (highest note) it
> > > briefly plays the note, then very quickly drops down to a much lower
> > > note (almost instantaneously). After this little event, every key
> > > stops working, other than a click for each note.
> > >
> > > This happens on every patch.
> > >
> > > Then, if I turn the power off, then back on, everything is fine again
> > > until the next time I hit that highest note.
> > >
> > > Any suggestions on where to point my screwdriver and multimeter?
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Jim Blair
> > > Ape Island Sound
> > > 
> > < http://www.facebook.com/ApeIslandSound
<http://www.facebook.com/ApeIslandSound>  >
http://www.facebook.com/ApeIslandSound
<http://www.facebook.com/ApeIslandSound> 
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >No virus found in this message.
> >Checked by AVG - <http://www.avg.com >www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com/> 
> >Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2433/5087 - Release Date: 06/22/12
> >Internal Virus Database is out of date.
>



No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2433/5087 - Release Date: 06/22/12
Internal Virus Database is out of date.

RE: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Arp challenge.

2012-12-18 by Jim Blair

Neat. There may be another residing here soon. And possibly a third, if I can source out the missing parts (without getting a second mortgage).

I've owned lots of Trons, a Chamberlin, some Optigans. Some replay keyboards are nice, some are not. Some are nightmares, and some are downright dangerous.

Believe it or not, what I'd really like for the studio, is a Roland D50. Maybe I need to release my inner Enya.

A Linn would be handy too.


Jim


At 09:01 PM 12/17/2012, you wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text


Jim: I’ve only seen one other mellotron, up island from Victoria. Lorne



From: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com [ mailto:vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Blair
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 12:08 PM
To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Arp challenge.





Hey thanks Dave.

And yes, I do live on Vancouver Island.

I operate a small recording studio that specializes in vintage keyboards.

http://www.facebook.com/ApeIslandSound

Are you in the area?


Jim



At 11:27 AM 12/17/2012, you wrote:



Since all the other keys work, I would suspect the problem is the key it's self.
Does the ProDGX use a resistor or diode keyboard?
Either way, check for a bad resistor/diode on the suspect key, also look for cracked solder joints, or possibly a short to the gate or after-touch buss.

On a side note, do you live on Vancouver Island?

Dave

--- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, Jim Blair <ceratos@...> wrote:
>;
> Thanks for your reply, DT.
>
> No sample and hold on the ProDGX.
>
> The note does not stay at the corre ct frequency
> when held. The pitch drop happens immediately on "note on".
>
> J wires are aligned, and cleaned, as is the bar.
>
>
> Jim
>
>
> At 05:34 AM 12/17/2012, you wrote:
> >
> >
> >Hi Jim,
> >
> >The fact that the rest of the keyboard works
> >fine seems to rule out that the sample hold
> >function is awry. Does the note stay at the
> >correct frequency if you hold it down? Is it
> >only pitch dropping on the release? Have you
> >checked to make sure the Jwires are aligned
> >properly on that key? Maybe open it up and check
> >to ensure that the contact wires on that top key
> >are aligned the same way as for all the others.
> >If not, bend them back carefully to match the others.
> >
> >(but I'm not really a tech, so don't just listen to me).
> >
> >best DT
> >
> >--- In
> >< mailto:vintagesynthrepair%40yahoogroups.com > vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com,
> >Jim Blair wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello!
> > >
> > > Here's an odd one up for discussion. I have a Arp ProDGX. Everything
> > > works fine....except.....if I hit the top key (highest note) it
> > > briefly plays the note, then very quickly drops down to a much lower
> > > note (almost instantaneously). After this little event, every key
> > > stops working, other than a click for each note.
> > >
>; > > This happens on every patch.
> > >
> > > Then, if I turn the power off, then back on, everything is fine again
> > > until the next time I hit that highest note.
> > >
> > > Any suggestions on where to point my screwdriver and multimeter?
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Jim Blair
> > > Ape Island Sound
> > >
> > < http://www.facebook.com/ApeIslandSound > http://www.facebook.com/ApeIslandSound
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >No virus found in this message.
> >Checked by AVG - <http://www.avg.com >www.avg.com
> >Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2433/5087 - Release Date: 06/22/12
> >Internal Virus Database is out of date.
>



No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www. avg.com
Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2433/5087 - Release Date: 06/22/12
Internal Virus Database is out of date.



No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2433/5087 - Release Date: 06/22/12
Internal Virus Database is out of date.

Re: Arp challenge.

2012-12-18 by dwv1957

Hi Jim,
I used to live in Aldergrove, I now live in Nakusp.
We met 10 or 12 years ago through a mutual friend, Larry Vollans
I have been restoring old analog synths for over 20 years now, drop me an email if you need any more help.

Dave


--- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, Jim Blair  wrote:
 
 Hey thanks Dave.
 
 And yes, I do live on Vancouver Island.
 
 I operate a small recording studio that specializes in vintage keyboards.
 
 http://www.facebook.com/ApeIslandSound
 
 Are you in the area?
 
 
 Jim
 
 
 
 At 11:27 AM 12/17/2012, you wrote:
 
 
 Since all the other keys work, I would suspect 
 the problem is the key it's self.
 Does the ProDGX use a resistor or diode keyboard?
 Either way, check for a bad resistor/diode on 
 the suspect key, also look for cracked solder 
 joints, or possibly a short to the gate or after-touch buss.
 
 On a side note, do you live on Vancouver Island?
 
 Dave
 
 --- In 
 vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, 
 Jim Blair  wrote:
  
   Thanks for your reply, DT.
  
   No sample and hold on the ProDGX.
  
   The note does not stay at the correct frequency
   when held. The pitch drop happens immediately on "note on".
  
   J wires are aligned, and cleaned, as is the bar.
  
  
   Jim
  
  
   At 05:34 AM 12/17/2012, you wrote:
   
   
   Hi Jim,
   
   The fact that the rest of the keyboard works
   fine seems to rule out that the sample hold
   function is awry. Does the note stay at the
   correct frequency if you hold it down? Is it
   only pitch dropping on the release? Have you
   checked to make sure the Jwires are aligned
   properly on that key? Maybe open it up and check
   to ensure that the contact wires on that top key
   are aligned the same way as for all the others.
   If not, bend them back carefully to match the others.
   
   (but I'm not really a tech, so don't just listen to me).
   
   best DT
   
   --- In
    
  vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, 
 
   Jim Blair  wrote:
    
     Hello!
    
     Here's an odd one up for discussion. I have a Arp ProDGX. Everything
     works fine....except.....if I hit the top key (highest note) it
     briefly plays the note, then very quickly drops down to a much lower
     note (almost instantaneously). After this little event, every key
     stops working, other than a click for each note.
    
     This happens on every patch.
    
     Then, if I turn the power off, then back on, everything is fine again
     until the next time I hit that highest note.
    
     Any suggestions on where to point my screwdriver and multimeter?
    
    
     Thanks,
    
     Jim Blair
     Ape Island Sound
    
    
  http://www.facebook.com/ApeIslandSound http://www.facebook.com/ApeIslandSound
    
   
   
   
   No virus found in this message.
   Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com www.avg.com
   Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2433/5087 - Release Date: 06/22/12
   Internal Virus Database is out of date.
  
 
 
 
 No virus found in this message.
 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
 Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2433/5087 - Release Date: 06/22/12
 Internal Virus Database is out of date.

Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Arp challenge.

2012-12-18 by jammie

get a d550
compact as seeing you have so many boards to midi from
theres a great pc editor with a virtual pg1000 controller
i use it all the time
as seeing that the d50 /550 was the first to have a va section
using pulse and tri waves and with pwm
you can do so many sounds never run out of ideas with that thing
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Blair
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2012 6:40 AM
Subject: RE: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Arp challenge.

Neat. There may be another residing here soon. And possibly a third, if I can source out the missing parts (without getting a second mortgage).

I've owned lots of Trons, a Chamberlin, some Optigans. Some replay keyboards are nice, some are not. Some are nightmares, and some are downright dangerous.

Believe it or not, what I'd really like for the studio, is a Roland D50. Maybe I need to release my inner Enya.

A Linn would be handy too.


Jim


At 09:01 PM 12/17/2012, you wrote:



Jim: I’ve only seen one other mellotron, up island from Victoria. Lorne



From: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com [ mailto:vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Blair
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 12:08 PM
To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Arp challenge.





Hey thanks Dave.

And yes, I do live on Vancouver Island.

I operate a small recording studio that specializes in vintage keyboards.

http://www.facebook.com/ApeIslandSound

Are you in the area?


Jim



At 11:27 AM 12/17/2012, you wrote:



Since all the other keys work, I would suspect the problem is the key it's self.
Does the ProDGX use a resistor or diode keyboard?
Either way, check for a bad resistor/diode on the suspect key, also look for cracked solder joints, or possibly a short to the gate or after-touch buss.

On a side note, do you live on Vancouver Island?

Dave

--- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, Jim Blair <ceratos@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks for your reply, DT.
>
> No sample and hold on the ProDGX.
>
> The note does not stay at the corre ct frequency
> when held. The pitch drop happens immediately on "note on".
>
> J wires are aligned, and cleaned, as is the bar.
>
>
> Jim
>
>
> At 05:34 AM 12/17/2012, you wrote:
> >
> >
> >Hi Jim,
> >
> >The fact that the rest of the keyboard works
> >fine seems to rule out that the sample hold
> >function is awry. Does the note stay at the
> >correct frequency if you hold it down? Is it
> >only pitch dropping on the release? Have you
> >checked to make sure the Jwires are aligned
> >properly on that key? Maybe open it up and check
> >to ensure that the contact wires on that top key
> >are aligned the same way as for all the others.
> >If not, bend them back carefully to match the others.
> >
> >(but I'm not really a tech, so don't just listen to me).
> >
> >best DT
> >
> >--- In
> >< mailto:vintagesynthrepair%40yahoogroups.com > vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com,
> >Jim Blair wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello!
> > >
> > > Here's an odd one up for discussion. I have a Arp ProDGX. Everything
> > > works fine....except.....if I hit the top key (highest note) it
> > > briefly plays the note, then very quickly drops down to a much lower
> > > note (almost instantaneously). After this little event, every key
> > > stops working, other than a click for each note.
> > >
> > > This happens on every patch.
> > >
> > > Then, if I turn the power off, then back on, everything is fine again
> > > until the next time I hit that highest note.
> > >
> > > Any suggestions on where to point my screwdriver and multimeter?
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Jim Blair
> > > Ape Island Sound
> > >
> > < http://www.facebook.com/ApeIslandSound > http://www.facebook.com/ApeIslandSound
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >No virus found in this message.
> >Checked by AVG - <http://www.avg.com >www.avg.com
> >Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2433/5087 - Release Date: 06/22/12
> >Internal Virus Database is out of date.
>



No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www. avg.com
Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2433/5087 - Release Date: 06/22/12
Internal Virus Database is out of date.



No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2433/5087 - Release Date: 06/22/12
Internal Virus Database is out of date.

Re: Arp challenge.

2012-12-18 by scituate_mass

Hi Jim,

Sorry if I wasnt't clear. I meant the sample hold circuit responsible for remembering the note that you trigger until another note is played. Not an external control on the keyboard.

did you check the resistor for that key? Maybe it's open???

D


--- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, Jim Blair  wrote:
 
 Thanks for your reply, DT.
 
 No sample and hold on the ProDGX.
 
 The note does not stay at the correct frequency 
 when held. The pitch drop happens immediately on "note on".
 
 J wires are aligned, and cleaned, as is the bar.
 
 
 Jim
 
 
 At 05:34 AM 12/17/2012, you wrote:
 
 
 Hi Jim,
 
 The fact that the rest of the keyboard works 
 fine seems to rule out that the sample hold 
 function is awry. Does the note stay at the 
 correct frequency if you hold it down? Is it 
 only pitch dropping on the release? Have you 
 checked to make sure the Jwires are aligned 
 properly on that key? Maybe open it up and check 
 to ensure that the contact wires on that top key 
 are aligned the same way as for all the others. 
 If not, bend them back carefully to match the others.
 
 (but I'm not really a tech, so don't just listen to me).
 
 best DT
 
 --- In 
 vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, 
 Jim Blair  wrote:
  
   Hello!
  
   Here's an odd one up for discussion. I have a Arp ProDGX. Everything
   works fine....except.....if I hit the top key (highest note) it
   briefly plays the note, then very quickly drops down to a much lower
   note (almost instantaneously). After this little event, every key
   stops working, other than a click for each note.
  
   This happens on every patch.
  
   Then, if I turn the power off, then back on, everything is fine again
   until the next time I hit that highest note.
  
   Any suggestions on where to point my screwdriver and multimeter?
  
  
   Thanks,
  
   Jim Blair
   Ape Island Sound
   
  http://www.facebook.com/ApeIslandSound
  
 
 
 
 No virus found in this message.
 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
 Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2433/5087 - Release Date: 06/22/12
 Internal Virus Database is out of date.

RE: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Arp challenge.

2012-12-18 by Lorne Hammond

Ah you're the Nakusp guy who has had some interesting things over the years,
nice modern stuff coming out of labels up that way.  I'm in Victoria.

There is a fellow from hawkwind to the east of you off Kootenay Lake I
think.

 

Lorne in Canada
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of dwv1957
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 11:52 PM
To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Arp challenge.

 

  

Hi Jim,
I used to live in Aldergrove, I now live in Nakusp.
We met 10 or 12 years ago through a mutual friend, Larry Vollans
I have been restoring old analog synths for over 20 years now, drop me an
email if you need any more help.

Dave

--- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:vintagesynthrepair%40yahoogroups.com> , Jim Blair wrote:

Hey thanks Dave.

And yes, I do live on Vancouver Island.

I operate a small recording studio that specializes in vintage keyboards.

http://www.facebook.com/ApeIslandSound

Are you in the area?


Jim



At 11:27 AM 12/17/2012, you wrote:


Since all the other keys work, I would suspect 
the problem is the key it's self.
Does the ProDGX use a resistor or diode keyboard?
Either way, check for a bad resistor/diode on 
the suspect key, also look for cracked solder 
joints, or possibly a short to the gate or after-touch buss.

On a side note, do you live on Vancouver Island?

Dave

--- In 
vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:vintagesynthrepair%40yahoogroups.com> , 
Jim Blair wrote:

Thanks for your reply, DT.

No sample and hold on the ProDGX.

The note does not stay at the correct frequency
when held. The pitch drop happens immediately on "note on".

J wires are aligned, and cleaned, as is the bar.


Jim


At 05:34 AM 12/17/2012, you wrote:


Hi Jim,

The fact that the rest of the keyboard works
fine seems to rule out that the sample hold
function is awry. Does the note stay at the
correct frequency if you hold it down? Is it
only pitch dropping on the release? Have you
checked to make sure the Jwires are aligned
properly on that key? Maybe open it up and check
to ensure that the contact wires on that top key
are aligned the same way as for all the others.
If not, bend them back carefully to match the others.

(but I'm not really a tech, so don't just listen to me).

best DT

--- In

vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:vintagesynthrepair%40yahoogroups.com> , 

Jim Blair wrote:

Hello!

Here's an odd one up for discussion. I have a Arp ProDGX. Everything
works fine....except.....if I hit the top key (highest note) it
briefly plays the note, then very quickly drops down to a much lower
note (almost instantaneously). After this little event, every key
stops working, other than a click for each note.

This happens on every patch.

Then, if I turn the power off, then back on, everything is fine again
until the next time I hit that highest note.

Any suggestions on where to point my screwdriver and multimeter?


Thanks,

Jim Blair
Ape Island Sound


http://www.facebook.com/ApeIslandSound
http://www.facebook.com/ApeIslandSound




No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2433/5087 - Release Date: 06/22/12
Internal Virus Database is out of date.




No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2433/5087 - Release Date: 06/22/12
Internal Virus Database is out of date.

RE: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Arp challenge.

2012-12-18 by Lorne Hammond

Optigan and two polymoogs here.  Another Optigan was around that is ex-la
with a full library.  The 'tron I played was a gogo.  Nanaimo's doubletron
went to sarah maclaughlin and I heard Bob Rock took another to his Hawaii
studio. Or maybe that's backward, its old info and I can get it wrong.

 

Cheers Lorne
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Blair
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 10:41 PM
To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Arp challenge.

 

  

Neat. There may be another residing here soon. And possibly a third, if I
can source out the missing parts (without getting a second mortgage).

I've owned lots of Trons, a Chamberlin, some Optigans. Some replay keyboards
are nice, some are not. Some are nightmares, and some are downright
dangerous.

Believe it or not, what I'd really like for the studio, is a Roland D50.
Maybe I need to release my inner Enya.

A Linn would be handy too.


Jim


At 09:01 PM 12/17/2012, you wrote:

  

Jim:  I've only seen one other mellotron, up island from Victoria.   Lorne

 

From: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com [
mailto:vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Jim Blair
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 12:08 PM
To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Arp challenge.

 

  

Hey thanks Dave.

And yes, I do live on Vancouver Island.

I operate a small recording studio that specializes in vintage keyboards.

http://www.facebook.com/ApeIslandSound

Are you in the area?


Jim



At 11:27 AM 12/17/2012, you wrote:

  

Since all the other keys work, I would suspect the problem is the key it's
self.

Does the ProDGX use a resistor or diode keyboard?

Either way, check for a bad resistor/diode on the suspect key, also look for
cracked solder joints, or possibly a short to the gate or after-touch buss.

On a side note, do you live on Vancouver Island?

Dave

--- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:vintagesynthrepair%40yahoogroups.com> , Jim Blair <ceratos@...>
wrote:

> 

> Thanks for your reply, DT.

> 

> No sample and hold on the ProDGX.

> 

> The note does not stay at the corre ct frequency 

> when held. The pitch drop happens immediately on "note on".

> 

> J wires are aligned, and cleaned, as is the bar.

> 

> 

> Jim

> 

> 

> At 05:34 AM 12/17/2012, you wrote:

> >

> >

> >Hi Jim,

> >

> >The fact that the rest of the keyboard works 

> >fine seems to rule out that the sample hold 

> >function is awry. Does the note stay at the 

> >correct frequency if you hold it down? Is it 

> >only pitch dropping on the release? Have you 

> >checked to make sure the Jwires are aligned 

> >properly on that key? Maybe open it up and check 

> >to ensure that the contact wires on that top key 

> >are aligned the same way as for all the others. 

> >If not, bend them back carefully to match the others.

> >

> >(but I'm not really a tech, so don't just listen to me).

> >

> >best DT

> >

> >--- In 

> ><  <mailto:vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com>
mailto:vintagesynthrepair%40yahoogroups.com
<mailto:vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com>  >
vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:vintagesynthrepair%40yahoogroups.com> , 

> >Jim Blair <ceratos@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Hello!

> > >

> > > Here's an odd one up for discussion. I have a Arp ProDGX. Everything

> > > works fine....except.....if I hit the top key (highest note) it

> > > briefly plays the note, then very quickly drops down to a much lower

> > > note (almost instantaneously). After this little event, every key

> > > stops working, other than a click for each note.

> > >

> > > This happens on every patch.

> > >

> > > Then, if I turn the power off, then back on, everything is fine again

> > > until the next time I hit that highest note.

> > >

> > > Any suggestions on where to point my screwdriver and multimeter?

> > >

> > >

> > > Thanks,

> > >

> > > Jim Blair

> > > Ape Island Sound

> > > 

> > <  <http://www.facebook.com/ApeIslandSound>
http://www.facebook.com/ApeIslandSound >
<http://www.facebook.com/ApeIslandSound>
http://www.facebook.com/ApeIslandSound

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >No virus found in this message.

> >Checked by AVG - <http://www.avg.com >www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com/> 

> >Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2433/5087 - Release Date: 06/22/12

> >Internal Virus Database is out of date.

>




No virus found in this message.

Checked by AVG - www. avg.com <http://www.avg.com> 

Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2433/5087 - Release Date: 06/22/12

Internal Virus Database is out of date.



No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2433/5087 - Release Date: 06/22/12
Internal Virus Database is out of date.

Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Arp challenge.

2012-12-18 by Malte Rogacki

OK,

the ARP Pro Soloist and Pro DGX are very special beasts completely
different from all other ARP models.

Because they are digital.

OK, partly.

Yes, they really are.

Both the memory switching and (most important!) they keyboard CV are
handled digitally.

Which means that most likely the described faults are not in the keyboard
CV generation but in the "master oscillator".

RE: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Arp challenge.

2012-12-18 by Jim Blair

Man, small world.

I'll bet the Optigan with full library was one of mine. I sold one with tons of disks.

The "doubletron" black MkV and Bob's 400SM were definitely mine. That 400SM was REALLY nice.


Jim





At 07:31 AM 12/18/2012, you wrote:


Optigan and two polymoogs here. Another Optigan was around that is ex-la with a full library. The ‘tron I played was a gogo. Nanaimo’s doubletron went to sarah maclaughlin and I heard Bob Rock took another to his Hawaii studio. Or maybe that’s backward, its old info and I can get it wrong.



Cheers Lorne



Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com [ mailto:vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim BlairSent: Monday, December 17, 2012 10:41 PM
To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Arp challenge.





Neat. There may be another residing here soon. And possibly a third, if I can source out the missing parts (without getting a second mortgage).

I've owned lots of Trons, a Chamberlin, some Optigans. Some replay keyboards are nice, some are not. Some are nightmares, and some are downright dangerous.

Believe it or not, what I'd really like for the studio, is a Roland D50. Maybe I need to release my inner Enya.

A Linn would be handy too.


Jim


At 09:01 PM 12/17/2012, you wrote:



Jim: I’ve only seen one other mellotron, up island from Victoria.&n
bsp; Lorne



From: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com [ mailto:vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Blair
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 12:08 PM
To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Arp challenge.





Hey thanks Dave.

And yes, I do live on Vancouver Island.

I operate a small recording studio that specializes in vintage keyboards.

http://www.facebook.com/ApeIslandSound

Are you in the area?


Jim



At 11:27 AM 12/17/2012, you wrote:



Since all the other keys work, I would suspect the pro blem is the key it's self.

Does the ProDGX use a resistor or diode keyboard?

Either way, check for a bad resistor/diode on the suspect key, also look for cracked solder joints, or possibly a short to the gate or after-touch buss.

On a side note, do you live on Vancouver Island?

Dave

--- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, Jim Blair <ceratos@...> wrote:

>

> Thanks for your reply, DT.

>

> No sample and hold on the ProDGX.

>

> The note does not stay at the corre ct frequency

> when hel d. The pitch drop happens immediately on "note on".

>

> J wires are aligned, and cleaned, as is the bar.

>

>

> Jim

>

>

> At 05:34 AM 12/17/2012, you wrote:

> >

> >

> >Hi Jim,

> >

> >The fact that the rest of the keyboard works

> >fine seems to rule out that the sample hold

> >;function is awry. Does the note stay at the

> >correct frequency if you hold it down? Is it

&g
t; >only pitch dropping on the release? Have you

> >checked to make sure the Jwires are aligned

> >properly on that key? Maybe open it up and check

> >to ensure that the contact wires on that top key

> >are aligned the same way as for all the others.

> >If not, bend them back carefully to match the others.

> >

> >(but I'm not really a tech, so don't just listen to me).

> >

> >best DT

> >

> >--- In

> >< mailto:vintagesynth repair%40yahoogroups.com > vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com,

> >Jim Blair wrote:

>; > >

> > > Hello!

> > >

> > > Here's an odd one up for discussion. I have a Arp ProDGX. Everything

> > > works fine....except.....if I hit the top key (highest note) it

> > > briefly plays the note, then very quickly drops down to a much lower

> > > note (almost instantaneously). After this little event, every key

> > > stops working, other than a click for each note.

> > >

> > > Th is happens on every patch.

> > >

> > > Then, if I turn the power off, then back on, everything is fine again

> > > until the next time I hit that highest note.

> > >

> > > Any suggestions on where to point my screwdriver and multimeter?

> > >

> > >

> > > Thanks,

> > >

> > > Jim Blair

> > > Ape Island Sound

> > >

> > < http://www.facebook.com/ApeIslandSound &gt
; http://www.facebook.com/ApeIslandSound

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >No virus found in this message.

> >Checked by AVG - <http://www.avg.com >www.avg.com

> >Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2433/5087 - Release Date: 06/22/12

> >Internal Virus Database is out of date.

>


No virus found in this message.

Checked by AVG - www. avg.com

Version: 1 0.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2433/5087 - Release Date: 06/22/12

Internal Virus Database is out of date.



No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2433/5087 - Release Date: 06/22/12
Internal Virus Database is out of date.



No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2433/5087 - Release Date: 06/22/12
Internal Virus Database is out of date.

Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Arp challenge.

2012-12-18 by Malte Rogacki

So here are a few more informations about the CV generation in the ARP Pro
Soloist and Pro DGX; this is coming from the service manual (theoretically
I could look things up in my Pro Soloist, too).

As I said those two ARP models have some digital functionality at their
core - which is somewhat amazing since they don't use a processor at all!

Since we are dealing with a keyboard problem I'll focus on this.

When looking at the keyboard for those models we find something strange -
there is just a single key contact for each key. Most other synths use at
least two (one for CV, one for Gate). Here everything is generated from one
contact.

Keys are transmitted as a 6 bit value, with 4 bit reserved for the keys
(within an octave) and two bits for the octave code. 4 bit can actually
encode 16 values while we only have 12 different keys within an octave;
this means a number of combinations are unused.
To give an example: Each "C" on the keyboard is represented by the code
"0000" (all four bits are off) plus the appropriate octave modifier.
For the lowest octave the octave modifier bits are 00, for the next 01, for
the next 10 and for the highest C both bits are active (11).

The digital nature of this approach means that the data lines for the
octaves must be ok (otherwise the lower octaves would make problems as
well) and the way they are decoded basically correctly.

So the question is if the problem happens in the DAC or afterwards.

The actual DAC functionality is very straightforward: Essentially the bits
and the modifiers are summed - which again means that if things are
correctly summed for the lower keys it is unlikely that the summing would
fail for a single higher key.

My suspicions go like this: The voltage coming from the highest "C" is
naturally also the highest voltage here. Perhaps some part has aged so far
that it saturates or breaks down when supplied with this voltage??

Possible test scenario: Activate pitch bend for the pressure sensor, play
hte highest "B" and apply pressure. Do you experience similar symptoms then
as well?

RE: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Arp challenge.

2012-12-19 by Lorne Hammond

Jim

The Optigan was Rick May's.  I tweaked two minimoogs for him (sold, he
regrets that now) one had an elegant LA mod that put an adsr to pitch osc 3.

Done with wires and one switch, no other parts.  Sweet.  He went to the same
school with mothersbaugh and that crowd.  Great bass player.  Lorne
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Blair
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2012 8:45 AM
To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Arp challenge.

 

  

Man, small world.

I'll bet the Optigan with full library was one of mine. I sold one with tons
of disks.

The "doubletron" black MkV and Bob's 400SM were definitely mine. That 400SM
was REALLY nice.


Jim





At 07:31 AM 12/18/2012, you wrote:

  

Optigan and two polymoogs here.  Another Optigan was around that is ex-la
with a full library.  The 'tron I played was a gogo.  Nanaimo's doubletron
went to sarah maclaughlin and I heard Bob Rock took another to his Hawaii
studio. Or maybe that's backward, its old info and I can get it wrong.

 

Cheers Lorne

 

From: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com [
mailto:vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Jim BlairSent:
Monday, December 17, 2012 10:41 PM
To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Arp challenge.

 

  

Neat. There may be another residing here soon. And possibly a third, if I
can source out the missing parts (without getting a second mortgage).

I've owned lots of Trons, a Chamberlin, some Optigans. Some replay keyboards
are nice, some are not. Some are nightmares, and some are downright
dangerous.

Believe it or not, what I'd really like for the studio, is a Roland D50.
Maybe I need to release my inner Enya.

A Linn would be handy too.


Jim


At 09:01 PM 12/17/2012, you wrote:

  

Jim:  I've only seen one other mellotron, up island from Victoria.&n

bsp;  Lorne

 

From: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com [
<mailto:vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com>
mailto:vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Blair

Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 12:08 PM

To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Arp challenge.

 

  

Hey thanks Dave.

And yes, I do live on Vancouver Island.

I operate a small recording studio that specializes in vintage keyboards.

http://www.facebook.com/ApeIslandSound

Are you in the area?



Jim




At 11:27 AM 12/17/2012, you wrote:

  

Since all the other keys work, I would suspect the pro blem is the key it's
self.

Does the ProDGX use a resistor or diode keyboard?

Either way, check for a bad resistor/diode on the suspect key, also look for
cracked solder joints, or possibly a short to the gate or after-touch buss.

On a side note, do you live on Vancouver Island?

Dave

--- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:vintagesynthrepair%40yahoogroups.com> , Jim Blair <ceratos@...>
wrote:

> 

> Thanks for your reply, DT.

> 

> No sample and hold on the ProDGX.

> 

> The note does not stay at the corre ct frequency 

> when hel d. The pitch drop happens immediately on "note on".

> 

> J wires are aligned, and cleaned, as is the bar.

> 

> 

> Jim

> 

> 

> At 05:34 AM 12/17/2012, you wrote:

> >

> >

> >Hi Jim,

> >

> >The fact that the rest of the keyboard works 

> >fine seems to rule out that the sample hold 

> >function is awry. Does the note stay at the 

> >correct frequency if you hold it down? Is it 

&g

t; >only pitch dropping on the release? Have you 

> >checked to make sure the Jwires are aligned 

> >properly on that key? Maybe open it up and check 

> >to ensure that the contact wires on that top key 

> >are aligned the same way as for all the others. 

> >If not, bend them back carefully to match the others.

> >

> >(but I'm not really a tech, so don't just listen to me).

> >

> >best DT

> >

> >--- In 

> ><  <mailto:vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com> mailto:vintagesynth
repair%40yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com>  >
vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:vintagesynthrepair%40yahoogroups.com> , 

> >Jim Blair <ceratos@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Hello!

> > >

> > > Here's an odd one up for discussion. I have a Arp ProDGX. Everything

> > > works fine....except.....if I hit the top key (highest note) it

> > > briefly plays the note, then very quickly drops down to a much lower

> > > note (almost instantaneously). After this little event, every key

> > > stops working, other than a click for each note.

> > >

> > > Th is happens on every patch.

> > >

> > > Then, if I turn the power off, then back on, everything is fine again

> > > until the next time I hit that highest note.

> > >

> > > Any suggestions on where to point my screwdriver and multimeter?

> > >

> > >

> > > Thanks,

> > >

> > > Jim Blair

> > > Ape Island Sound

> > > 

> > <  <http://www.facebook.com/ApeIslandSound>
http://www.facebook.com/ApeIslandSound >

;  <http://www.facebook.com/ApeIslandSound>
http://www.facebook.com/ApeIslandSound

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >No virus found in this message.

> >Checked by AVG - <http://www.avg.com >www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com/> 

> >Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2433/5087 - Release Date: 06/22/12

> >Internal Virus Database is out of date.

>



No virus found in this message.

Checked by AVG - www. avg.com <http://www.avg.com> 

Version: 1 0.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2433/5087 - Release Date: 06/22/12

Internal Virus Database is out of date.




No virus found in this message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2433/5087 - Release Date: 06/22/12

Internal Virus Database is out of date.



No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2433/5087 - Release Date: 06/22/12
Internal Virus Database is out of date.

Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Arp challenge.

2012-12-19 by Jim Blair

Very interesting. I will experiment based on this, and report my results.

Thanks


At 02:00 PM 12/18/2012, you wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text


So here are a few more informations about the CV generation in the ARP Pro
Soloist and Pro DGX; this is coming from the service manual (theoretically
I could look things up in my Pro Soloist, too).

As I said those two ARP models have some digital functionality at their
core - which is somewhat amazing since they don't use a processor at all!

Since we are dealing with a keyboard problem I'll focus on this.

When looking at the keyboard for those models we find something strange -
there is just a single key contact for each key. Most other synths use at
least two (one for CV, one for Gate). Here everything is generated from one
contact.

Keys are transmitted as a 6 bit value, with 4 bit reserved for the keys
(within an octave) and two bits for the octave code. 4 bit can actually
encode 16 values while we only have 12 different keys within an octave;
this means a number of combinations are unused.
To give an example: Each "C" on the keyboard is represented by the code
"0000" (all four bits are off) plus the appropriate octave modifier.
For the lowest octave the octave modifier bits are 00, for the next 01, for
the next 10 and for the highest C both bits are active (11).

The digital nature of this approach means that the data lines for the
octaves must be ok (otherwise the lower octaves would make problems as
well) and the way they are decoded basically correctly.

So the question is if the problem happens in the DAC or afterwards.

The actual DAC functionality is very straightforward: Essentially the bits
and the modifiers are summed - which again means that if things are
correctly summed for the lower keys it is unlikely that the summing would
fail for a single higher key.

My suspicions go like this: The voltage coming from the highest "C" is
naturally also the highest voltage here. Perhaps some part has aged so far
that it saturates or breaks down when supplied with this voltage??

Possible test scenario: Activate pitch bend for the pressure sensor, play
hte highest "B" and apply pressure. Do you experience similar symptoms then
as well?



No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2433/5087 - Release Date: 06/22/12
Internal Virus Database is out of date.

Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Arp challenge.

2012-12-20 by Malte Rogacki

The ARP Pro Soloist oscillator control continued:

When looking at the schematic it becomes clear that the octave switching is
actually happening in two places:

- In the DAC there is just a "correction voltage" generated. The output of
the DAC actually "restarts" for every octave. So the CV coming directly out
of the DAC is not continuous for the whole keyboard.

- The second octave switching happens in the Frequency to Voltage
convertor. This one comes AFTER the Master oscillator but (surprisingly)
controls it with a kind of feedback loop.

Given the nature of the error I would look there, specifically Z1, Z3 and
Z4. The follow through Z22 up to the differential amplifier at Z23.

Please keep us updated. I've always been fascinated by the way those two
ARP synths were designed; and this gives me a good excuse to learn a bit
more about this design.

Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Arp challenge.

2012-12-20 by Jim Blair

Thanks again, this is very helpful.

I have a couple of projects to hit before the ProDGX (M3 output jack to Leslie, noisy Yamaha E30, dead Arp Quartet, broken CP70 string, missing Wurli reed, etc. It never ends.), but when I dig in, I'll certainly post the results.


Jim



At 12:04 AM 12/20/2012, you wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text


The ARP Pro Soloist oscillator control continued:

When looking at the schematic it becomes clear that the octave switching is
actually happening in two places:

- In the DAC there is just a "correction voltage" generated. The output of
the DAC actually "restarts" for every octave. So the CV coming directly out
of the DAC is not continuous for the whole keyboard.

- The second octave switching happens in the Frequency to Voltage
convertor. This one comes AFTER the Master oscillator but (surprisingly)
controls it with a kind of feedback loop.

Given the nature of the error I would look there, specifically Z1, Z3 and
Z4. The follow through Z22 up to the differential amplifier at Z23.

Please keep us updated. I've always been fascinated by the way those two
ARP synths were designed; and this gives me a good excuse to learn a bit
more about this design.


No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2433/5087 - Release Date: 06/22/12
Internal Virus Database is out of date.

RadioShack - Cat No. 65-1228

2012-12-20 by Doneley Watson


This is a little calculator/calender/ etc.
It is made of transparent golden plastic about 1 1/2 by 2 1/2 by 7/16 inches.
There is a 1 1/2 by 1 1/4 inch screen.
You almost need a magnifying glass to read some of it
There is a small chain that attaches to your bag or whatever.
I found it in a drawer, replaced the battery, and managed to turn it on.
The calculator appears to be working ok. If I set the year to 81 it matches
the current calender. There are obviously many other features that I can't
quite figure out.
When I took it in to the local store, they couldn't find anything about it.
I haven't had any luck finding any more about it.
I sure would appreciate a manual or sheet of instructions.
Any suggetions?
DonW

Re: [vintagesynthrepair] RadioShack - Cat No. 65-1228

2012-12-20 by boris dumery

Hi DonW

You can try with mister pat ALLBRIGHT from Radio Shack at 
pat.albright@...

He helped me to fix a lot of problems to to get schematics, service manuals and user's manuals for TANDY/INTERTAN/RadioShack devices..

Just my two cents from Belgium.

Boris




________________________________
Show quoted textHide quoted text
 From: Doneley Watson <doneleyw@...>
To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2012 9:14 PM
Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] RadioShack  -  Cat No. 65-1228
 

  

This is a little calculator/calender/ etc.

It is made of transparent golden plastic about 1 1/2 by 2 1/2  by 7/16 inches.
There is a 1 1/2 by 1 1/4  inch screen.
You almost need a magnifying glass to read some of it
There is a small chain that attaches to your bag or whatever. 

I found it in a drawer, replaced the battery, and managed to turn it on.
The calculator appears to be working ok. If I set the year to 81 it matches
the current calender.  There are obviously many other features that I can't 
quite figure out.
 
When I  took it in to the local store, they couldn't find anything about it.
I  haven't had any luck finding any more about it.
 
I sure would appreciate a manual or sheet of instructions.
 
Any suggetions?
 
DonW

Re: [vintagesynthrepair] RadioShack - Cat No. 65-1228

2012-12-21 by MiKelleY

Maybe off subject a bit, but I found this old SYNAPSE mag article a few years back, about using a Novus Mathematician to create electronic music through an AM radio.
 
http://www.cyndustries.com/synapse/synapse.cfm?pc=35&folder=sept1976&pic=5
 

________________________________
Show quoted textHide quoted text
 From: boris dumery <boris_dumery@...>
To: "vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com" <vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com> 
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2012 4:27 PM
Subject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] RadioShack  -  Cat No. 65-1228
   
 
   
 
Hi DonWYou can try with mister pat ALLBRIGHT from Radio Shack at pat.albright@... helped me to fix a lot of problems to to get schematics, service manuals and user's manuals for TANDY/INTERTAN/RadioShack devices..Just my two cents from Belgium.Boris

 

________________________________
 From: Doneley Watson <doneleyw@...>
To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2012 9:14 PM
Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] RadioShack  -  Cat No. 65-1228
   
  
This is a little calculator/calender/ etc. 
It is made of transparent golden plastic about 1 1/2 by 2 1/2  by 7/16 inches. 
There is a 1 1/2 by 1 1/4  inch screen. 
You almost need a magnifying glass to read some of it 
There is a small chain that attaches to your bag or whatever. 
 
I found it in a drawer, replaced the battery, and managed to turn it on. 
The calculator appears to be working ok. If I set the year to 81 it matches 
the current calender.  There are obviously many other features that I can't  
quite figure out. 

When I  took it in to the local store, they couldn't find anything about it. 
I  haven't had any luck finding any more about it. 

I sure would appreciate a manual or sheet of instructions. 

Any suggetions? 

DonW

AM radios

2012-12-21 by ChristopherG

--- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, MiKelleY <mikelleys@...> wrote:
>
> Maybe off subject a bit, but I found this old SYNAPSE mag article a few years back, about using a Novus Mathematician to create electronic music through an AM radio.
> Â 
> http://www.cyndustries.com/synapse/synapse.cfm?pc=35&folder=sept1976&pic=5
>  

Interesting article! That was one of the ways I used to make electronic sounds in the late '70s/ early '80s before I got my first synthesizer-- just by holding various electronic games and calculators near an AM radio and recording the results. Luckily I saved the tapes, because now I'm able to sample them and use them in new ways...

Chris Gross

Re: [vintagesynthrepair] AM radios

2012-12-21 by MiKelleY

I have always wondered about the audio results achieved from doing this. If you ever post an mp3 or wav from your older tapes, I would love to hear them.
 
Mike
 

________________________________
Show quoted textHide quoted text
 From: ChristopherG <zmib23@...>
To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 10:34 AM
Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] AM radios
   
 
   
 


--- In mailto:vintagesynthrepair%40yahoogroups.com, MiKelleY <mikelleys@...> wrote:
>
> Maybe off subject a bit, but I found this old SYNAPSE mag article a few years back, about using a Novus Mathematician to create electronic music through an AM radio.
> Â 
> http://www.cyndustries.com/synapse/synapse.cfm?pc=35&folder=sept1976&pic=5
> 

Interesting article! That was one of the ways I used to make electronic sounds in the late '70s/ early '80s before I got my first synthesizer-- just by holding various electronic games and calculators near an AM radio and recording the results. Luckily I saved the tapes, because now I'm able to sample them and use them in new ways...

Chris Gross

Re: [vintagesynthrepair] AM radios

2012-12-21 by 65 Lotus

Same here.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  From: MiKelleY 
  To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 11:23 AM
  Subject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] AM radios



  I have always wondered about the audio results achieved from doing this. If you ever post an mp3 or wav from your older tapes, I would love to hear them.

  Mike

Re: [vintagesynthrepair] AM radios

2012-12-21 by Electronic Battle

Sorry ... all a bit [OT] but:

>> Maybe off subject a bit, but I found this old\ufffd SYNAPSE mag article
>> a
> few years back, about using a Novus Mathematician to create
> electronic music through an AM radio.

>> http://www.cyndustries.com/synapse/synapse.cfm?pc=35&folder=sept1976&pic=5
>>
>
>> 
> Interesting article! That was one of the ways I used to make
> electronic sounds in the late '70s/ early '80s before I got my first
> synthesizer-- just by holding various electronic games and
> calculators near an AM radio and recording the results. Luckily I
> saved the tapes, because now I'm able to sample them and use them in
> new ways...

> I have always wondered about the audio results achieved from doing
> this. If you ever post an mp3 or wav from your older tapes, I would
> love to hear them.


I did this sort of thing in 1977/78 ... firstly a Commodore scientific
LED calculator, and then a TI-58 programmable LED display calculator,
which I used to generate a loop which would run indefinitely on the
calcultor. Holding it near an AM radio generated all sorts of pseudo
rhythmic sounds (a bit like FAX machines or modem tones).

I eventually modified the TI-58 to provide a "trigger" output to a Korg
MS-10, thus creating an early 9but difficult to use)
digitally-programmable trigger sequencer.

RE: [vintagesynthrepair] AM radios

2012-12-21 by John E. Simmons/Business

I once had an article, probably in Popular Electronics, that told how to make a Theremin OUT Of an All-American 5 AM radio. That was a common design for tube radios in the 50s and 60s.

I tried it, but could never get it to generate a tone. I didn\u2019t have the test equipment at the time to fully trace out the circuits and find out what was wrong.

John

From: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Electronic Battle
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 3:26 PM
To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] AM radios

Sorry ... all a bit [OT] but:

>> Maybe off subject a bit, but I found this old SYNAPSE mag article
>> a
> few years back, about using a Novus Mathematician to create
> electronic music through an AM radio.

>> http://www.cyndustries.com/synapse/synapse.cfm?pc=35&folder=sept1976&pic=5
>>
>
>>
> Interesting article! That was one of the ways I used to make
> electronic sounds in the late '70s/ early '80s before I got my first
> synthesizer-- just by holding various electronic games and
> calculators near an AM radio and recording the results. Luckily I
> saved the tapes, because now I'm able to sample them and use them in
> new ways...

> I have always wondered about the audio results achieved from doing
> this. If you ever post an mp3 or wav from your older tapes, I would
> love to hear them.

I did this sort of thing in 1977/78 ... firstly a Commodore scientific
LED calculator, and then a TI-58 programmable LED display calculator,
which I used to generate a loop which would run indefinitely on the
calcultor. Holding it near an AM radio generated all sorts of pseudo
rhythmic sounds (a bit like FAX machines or modem tones).

I eventually modified the TI-58 to provide a "trigger" output to a Korg
MS-10, thus creating an early 9but difficult to use)
digitally-programmable trigger sequencer.

Re: AM radios

2012-12-22 by ChristopherG

--- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, MiKelleY <mikelleys@...> wrote:
>
> I have always wondered about the audio results achieved from doing this. If you ever post an mp3 or wav from your older tapes, I would love to hear them.
> Â 
> Mike
>  

Hi Mike,

I just posted a few short drones in .aif format to Rapidshare-- they're all I have on my computer at the moment, but I'll be posting some more in the future. The drones were all made around '79 (?) with a Mattel Electronics football game... which is still around here someplace, so maybe I'll try making some new samples with it!

http://rapidshare.com/files/1948436686/CGSamples1.zip

Chris

Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: AM radios

2012-12-22 by MiKelleY

Chris,
 
The DRONES are nice and thick, the WHIRR,very interesting. Thanks for sharing your audio.
 
I actually have the Mattel Electronics football game, like you said somewhere around here as well. I will have to give this a try. I think my football game was a re-issue given to me at xmas about 10 yrs back, I hope mine is built the same as the 70s classic(yours).
 
Give me some insight if you can into how your setup is. The game, an AM radio / guitar pickup...or are you using some other mods or means for a transducer. Are you using a radio / receiver with a single antenna or double?
 
Playing around & adjusting the pitch on these sounds should be alot of fun.
 
Mike
  

________________________________
Show quoted textHide quoted text
 From: ChristopherG <zmib23@...>
To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 11:39 AM
Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: AM radios
   
 
   
 


--- In mailto:vintagesynthrepair%40yahoogroups.com, MiKelleY <mikelleys@...> wrote:
>
> I have always wondered about the audio results achieved from doing this. If you ever post an mp3 or wav from your older tapes, I would love to hear them.
> Â 
> Mike
> 

Hi Mike,

I just posted a few short drones in .aif format to Rapidshare-- they're all I have on my computer at the moment, but I'll be posting some more in the future. The drones were all made around '79 (?) with a Mattel Electronics football game... which is still around here someplace, so maybe I'll try making some new samples with it!

http://rapidshare.com/files/1948436686/CGSamples1.zip

Chris

Re: AM radios

2012-12-22 by ChristopherG

--- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, MiKelleY <mikelleys@...> wrote:
>
> Chris,

> Â 
> Give me some insight if you can into how your setup is. The game, an AM radio / guitar pickup...or are you using some other mods or means for a transducer. Are you using a radio / receiver with a single antenna or double?
> Â 

The radio was the AM/FM receiver my father had at the time (you can hear me using the tone controls in the WHIRR sample), and all I did was to hold the game close to it and tune around the AM band. The game's sounds would change as you played it (sometimes it would play a little tune as well)... I've used telephone pickups too; some devices seem to work better with them, but I like the flexibility you get with a radio.

Chris

JV1080 repair.

2012-12-30 by Jim Blair

Hey guys,

So I've ended up with a free Roland JV1080, which of course, doesn't work.

If I play any single key five times, it only plays a sound on the 
first of each five. Then silence four times, then the note again, 
then four silences, etc.

Any suggestions?


Thanks!

Jim

Re: JV1080 repair.

2012-12-30 by The Wizard

I used to own one... have a 2080 now.  Sounds very odd indeed.  I seem to recall there's something akin to a factory reset option.  I'd try that first and see if it comes back to its senses.
---Kevin

--- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, Jim Blair <ceratos@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Hey guys,
> 
> So I've ended up with a free Roland JV1080, which of course, doesn't work.
> 
> If I play any single key five times, it only plays a sound on the 
> first of each five. Then silence four times, then the note again, 
> then four silences, etc.
> 
> Any suggestions?
> 
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Jim
>

JV1080 repair.

2012-12-30 by Jim Blair

Correction.....silence for "three" key hits, not four.

Re: JV1080 repair.

2012-12-30 by KurtF

The JV-1080 service manual is available for free from ElectroTanya.com, which is a great site specializing in providing service manuals for just about any appliance. They allow two free daily downloads for non-members, and one can become a member simply by taking a simple multiple choice electronic theory exam. Apparently they like to know that their subscribers are at least a little serious about their work. The site is Russian, but there is enough English to navigate.

--- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, Jim Blair <ceratos@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Correction.....silence for "three" key hits, not four.
>

Re: JV1080 repair.

2012-12-30 by KurtF

Correction: it's elektrotanya.com, with a 'k'.

--- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, Jim Blair <ceratos@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Correction.....silence for "three" key hits, not four.
>

Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: JV1080 repair.

2012-12-30 by Jim Blair

Thanks for the help.

I'll post my results.

Pretty excited about the JV. I REALLY want the Orchestral card for 
this synth. That's my main reason for getting this little beauty.



Jim

Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: JV1080 repair.

2012-12-30 by Daniel Forró

That side is Hungarian.

Daniel Forro
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On 31 Dec, 2012, at 1:49 AM, KurtF wrote:

> The JV-1080 service manual is available for free from  
> ElectroTanya.com, which is a great site specializing in providing  
> service manuals for just about any appliance. They allow two free  
> daily downloads for non-members, and one can become a member simply  
> by taking a simple multiple choice electronic theory exam.  
> Apparently they like to know that their subscribers are at least a  
> little serious about their work. The site is Russian, but there is  
> enough English to navigate.

Re: JV1080 repair.

2012-12-30 by KurtF

Yes, so I noticed after noodling around the back pages trying to find an email address (and not finding one) to complain to after a download failed and it wouldn't let me start again due to their two download a day limit, and after missing one of the 'test' questions for membership which also cannot be tried again for a few days, I just threw my hands up in disgust and didn't really care that I had misidentified them. I really just plain didn't care. And I still don't.

--- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Forró <dan.for@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> That side is Hungarian.
> 
> Daniel Forro
> 
> 
> On 31 Dec, 2012, at 1:49 AM, KurtF wrote:
> 
> > The JV-1080 service manual is available for free from  
> > ElectroTanya.com, which is a great site specializing in providing  
> > service manuals for just about any appliance. They allow two free  
> > daily downloads for non-members, and one can become a member simply  
> > by taking a simple multiple choice electronic theory exam.  
> > Apparently they like to know that their subscribers are at least a  
> > little serious about their work. The site is Russian, but there is  
> > enough English to navigate.
>

Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: JV1080 repair.

2012-12-31 by Daniel Forró

There is really sometimes problem with downloading, and I couldn't  
pass their test more times despite I'm quite sure my answers were OK...

Daniel Forro
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On 31 Dec, 2012, at 7:46 AM, KurtF wrote:

> Yes, so I noticed after noodling around the back pages trying to  
> find an email address (and not finding one) to complain to after a  
> download failed and it wouldn't let me start again due to their two  
> download a day limit, and after missing one of the 'test' questions  
> for membership which also cannot be tried again for a few days, I  
> just threw my hands up in disgust and didn't really care that I had  
> misidentified them. I really just plain didn't care. And I still  
> don't.

Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: JV1080 repair.

2012-12-31 by jammie

ring roland uk
tell them your a repair tech
and ask them for the repair docs for the jv1080
they sent me them for the s750/770 and the jv2080 when
i had faulty psu and i brought replacement for the jv2080
which only cost £37
i also repaired the broken psu but time and parts cost me way more than the £37 that i paid for a nos psu
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 12:10 AM
Subject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: JV1080 repair.

There is really sometimes problem with downloading, and I couldn't
pass their test more times despite I'm quite sure my answers were OK...

Daniel Forro

On 31 Dec, 2012, at 7:46 AM, KurtF wrote:

> Yes, so I noticed after noodling around the back pages trying to
> find an email address (and not finding one) to complain to after a
> download failed and it wouldn't let me start again due to their two
> download a day limit, and after missing one of the 'test' questions
> for membership which also cannot be tried again for a few days, I
> just threw my hands up in disgust and didn't really care that I had
> misidentified them. I really just plain didn't care. And I still
> don't.

RE: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: JV1080 repair.

2012-12-31 by John Rose

Just gone through the test and some of the questions are a bit confusing, however got through and just waiting for the registration email, however I did download a copy of the 1080 SM first as I am waiting to get hold of a JV1080 already got a couple of JV880\u2019s.

One idea that comes to mind is have you tried the ROM Play mode as I understand that this generates an internal MIDI sequence to show what the instrument is capable of (but is also used to test some of the internal voices) could also be why it is the starting point to enter test mode, just a thought.

Although it is not directly relevant but may be helpful to some members, on one of the JV880\u2019s most of the switches on the front panel did not work (a bit limiting) on looking at the schematics it showed that the connections went from the front panel PCB to the main board, but on removing the PCB it showed very fine cracks (needed a magnifier to see them) in the PCB radiating away from the hole the rotary encoder was mounted through, these cracks had damaged quite a few tracks on the PCB and using fine wire to bypass the suspect tracks brought the unit back to full functionality.

Many thanks

John Rose

(www.astrodevelopments.com)

From: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Daniel Forró
Sent: 31 December 2012 00:11
To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: JV1080 repair.

There is really sometimes problem with downloading, and I couldn't
pass their test more times despite I'm quite sure my answers were OK...

Daniel Forro

On 31 Dec, 2012, at 7:46 AM, KurtF wrote:

> Yes, so I noticed after noodling around the back pages trying to
> find an email address (and not finding one) to complain to after a
> download failed and it wouldn't let me start again due to their two
> download a day limit, and after missing one of the 'test' questions
> for membership which also cannot be tried again for a few days, I
> just threw my hands up in disgust and didn't really care that I had
> misidentified them. I really just plain didn't care. And I still
> don't.

Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: JV1080 repair.

2012-12-31 by Roger J

If you do not get a manual, i can provide a pdf.

Happy New Year
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>________________________________
> From: KurtF <darkside@...>
>To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com 
>Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 8:51 AM
>Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: JV1080 repair.
> 
>
>  
>Correction: it's elektrotanya.com, with a 'k'.
>
>--- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, Jim Blair <ceratos@...> wrote:
>>
>> Correction.....silence for "three" key hits, not four.
>>
>
>
> 
>
>

Re: JV1080 repair.

2012-12-31 by KurtF

Thank you. No need. I do not have a JV-1080. I just wanted to see if there was a clue about that one playing only one note in four.

--- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, Roger J <winking_n_nodding@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> If you do not get a manual, i can provide a pdf.
> 
> Happy New Year 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >________________________________
> > From: KurtF <darkside@...>
> >To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com 
> >Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 8:51 AM
> >Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: JV1080 repair.
> > 
> >
> >Â  
> >Correction: it's elektrotanya.com, with a 'k'.
> >
> >--- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, Jim Blair <ceratos@> wrote:
> >>
> >> Correction.....silence for "three" key hits, not four.
> >>
> >
> >
> > 
> >
> >
>

Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: JV1080 repair.

2013-01-06 by Jim Blair

And we have a winner! Thanks Kevin.


At 04:43 PM 12/29/2012, you wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text


Sounds very odd indeed. I seem to recall there's something akin to a factory reset option. I'd try that first and see if it comes back to its senses.
---Kevin

--- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, Jim Blair wrote:
>
> Hey guys,
>
> So I've ended up with a free Roland JV1080, which of course, doesn't work.
>
> If I play any single key five times, it only plays a sound on the
> first of each five. Then silence four times, then the note again,
> then four silences, etc.
>
> Any suggestions?
>
>
> Thanks!
>
> Jim
>



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