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while we're talking about crazy patches...

while we're talking about crazy patches...

2007-11-18 by mrboningen

i've been working a lot on the following patch this evening, the heart
of which is the wiard borg2:

after about 5 unsuccessful attempts over the last few years, i finally
managed to actually patch up something similar to a compressor on my
modular.

the patch goes like this:

10v p/p sound source to be compressed into a multiple

multiple out to a) borg2 audio input b) serge/bananalogue vcs input

vcs out to inverter (i use a serge 3p)

inverter out to borg2 cv input

borg out to amp/mixer/speaker

notes:

1) the sound source needs to be 10v p/p or it won't "kick" the
compressor enough, so you will need a preamp after the sound source if
it is low level (i first used a bass guitar into the blacet i/o module)

2) the borg2 needs to be set to vca/low pass gate mode, freq. at max
and cv in at max (the inverted envelope pulls DOWN the low pass gate)

3) the vcs is acting as an envelope follower, but the beauty of this
module is that you have seperate control of the attack and release
time (which go from microseconds to minutes!), and they are both
voltage controllable Wink i set the attack at minimum first, the decay
at maximum, then slowly bring the decay down until i hear the
pumping/breathing/obvious compression characteristic i want, then
slowly increase the attack until i get the right mix of naturalness
and compressed sound. the second beautiful thing is that you can
individually set the attack and decay to be linear, logarithmic or
exponential for a very wide variety of compression characteristics.

interesting variation: turn the borg2 filter repsonse pot from lp to
hp for crazy high pass frequency compression!

i have come across some AMAZING sounds with this patch this evening. i
could get great bass guitar compression and heavenly acid lines. i
will try it on drums at a later stage.

other things to try:
1) use a wiard boogie or another type of low pass gate for a different
sound
2) incorpoate some kind of voltage controlled feedback or feedforward
(would need more mults and mixers)

final note:
i first attempted it with a "normal" linear vca instead of the borg 2,
and the blacet i/o envelope follower instead of the vcs, but it wasn't
nearly as versatile or nice sounding!

i can possibly upload some .mp3's if people are interested.

it ain't gonna beat an 1176, but it sure is fun!

Re: [wiardgroup] while we're talking about crazy patches...

2007-11-19 by Tyler Harwood

That is super smart and clever! Thanks for sharing that. It's something I never would have thought of - I can't wait to try it! It opens up a whole world of possibilities that an 1176 could never touch.



On Nov 18, 2007, at 8:23 AM, "mrboningen" <darkflametwentythree@hotmail.com> wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text

i've been working a lot on the following patch this evening, the heart
of which is the wiard borg2:

after about 5 unsuccessful attempts over the last few years, i finally
managed to actually patch up something similar to a compressor on my
modular.

the patch goes like this:

10v p/p sound source to be compressed into a multiple

multiple out to a) borg2 audio input b) serge/bananalogue vcs input

vcs out to inverter (i use a serge 3p)

inverter out to borg2 cv input

borg out to amp/mixer/speaker

notes:

1) the sound source needs to be 10v p/p or it won't "kick" the
compressor enough, so you will need a preamp after the sound source if
it is low level (i first used a bass guitar into the blacet i/o module)

2) the borg2 needs to be set to vca/low pass gate mode, freq. at max
and cv in at max (the inverted envelope pulls DOWN the low pass gate)

3) the vcs is acting as an envelope follower, but the beauty of this
module is that you have seperate control of the attack and release
time (which go from microseconds to minutes!), and they are both
voltage controllable Wink i set the attack at minimum first, the decay
at maximum, then slowly bring the decay down until i hear the
pumping/breathing/obvious compression characteristic i want, then
slowly increase the attack until i get the right mix of naturalness
and compressed sound. the second beautiful thing is that you can
individually set the attack and decay to be linear, logarithmic or
exponential for a very wide variety of compression characteristics.

interesting variation: turn the borg2 filter repsonse pot from lp to
hp for crazy high pass frequency compression!

i have come across some AMAZING sounds with this patch this evening. i
could get great bass guitar compression and heavenly acid lines. i
will try it on drums at a later stage.

other things to try:
1) use a wiard boogie or another type of low pass gate for a different
sound
2) incorpoate some kind of voltage controlled feedback or feedforward
(would need more mults and mixers)

final note:
i first attempted it with a "normal" linear vca instead of the borg 2,
and the blacet i/o envelope follower instead of the vcs, but it wasn't
nearly as versatile or nice sounding!

i can possibly upload some .mp3's if people are interested.

it ain't gonna beat an 1176, but it sure is fun!

Re: while we're talking about crazy patches...

2007-11-19 by drmabuce

Hi Gregg
This is a very cool and unusual use for the borg, and it makes a lot
of sense that it would impart a richer sound than more 'hi-fi'
full-range VCA. 
 (there's a very nice article on 'classic'-period compressors here:)
http://www.cranesong.com/compressorarticle.html
  Everybody knows how golden-eared, real-deal, engineers treasure
those some of those old tube compressors, from UA or Fairchild. i'm
convinced the venerable designers of those gadgets were trying their
level best to create a full-range VCA but there's only so much you can
  do with a production budget, pricey ,complex, transformers and
vacuum tubes...fortunately!...as it turned out!
  The tube gain-cell element in those designs does not 'open' the gain
at all frequencies at the same rate across the spectrum. Those curves
have been analyzed to the gnat's ass by the plug-in developers in the
frantic effort to emulate them in software and the results are
maddeningly (for the tweakheads trying to map them anyway), NON-linear
not only across the frequency spectrum but across the range of input
levels the device will tolerate... (Good luck with that, folks!)

My point is that these hallowed compressors act way more like Buchla's
'gate' circuits than they do like a nice, wide-spectrum, modern
gain-cells. It was those selfsame Buchla LP-gates that underpinned
Grant's thinking when he set out to design the Borg.

  The modern Joe Meek compressors do this trick well too, but without
all the fun flexible control 'perversions' to which you allude. i do
know via the studio grapevine that certain well-known industrial music
practitioners have been known to use an MS-20's filter (set to NO-res)
and Env. Follower as a 'compressor' on heavily distorted guitars and
that they regard this patch as a 'trade secret' (oops!)
;'>
...yet-again, creating a missing link between the 'colorful'
compressor and the low-pass gate.

 Congrats on a particularly flexible range of flavors in this already
exotic category, and thanks for sharing it.

-doc

 



--- In wiardgroup@yahoogroups.com, "mrboningen"
<darkflametwentythree@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> i've been working a lot on the following patch this evening, the heart
> of which is the wiard borg2:
> 
> after about 5 unsuccessful attempts over the last few years, i finally
> managed to actually patch up something similar to a compressor on my
> modular.
> 
> the patch goes like this:
> 
> 10v p/p sound source to be compressed into a multiple
> 
> multiple out to a) borg2 audio input b) serge/bananalogue vcs input
> 
> vcs out to inverter (i use a serge 3p)
> 
> inverter out to borg2 cv input
> 
> borg out to amp/mixer/speaker
> 
> notes:
> 
> 1) the sound source needs to be 10v p/p or it won't "kick" the
> compressor enough, so you will need a preamp after the sound source if
> it is low level (i first used a bass guitar into the blacet i/o module)
> 
> 2) the borg2 needs to be set to vca/low pass gate mode, freq. at max
> and cv in at max (the inverted envelope pulls DOWN the low pass gate)
> 
> 3) the vcs is acting as an envelope follower, but the beauty of this
> module is that you have seperate control of the attack and release
> time (which go from microseconds to minutes!), and they are both
> voltage controllable Wink i set the attack at minimum first, the decay
> at maximum, then slowly bring the decay down until i hear the
> pumping/breathing/obvious compression characteristic i want, then
> slowly increase the attack until i get the right mix of naturalness
> and compressed sound. the second beautiful thing is that you can
> individually set the attack and decay to be linear, logarithmic or
> exponential for a very wide variety of compression characteristics.
> 
> interesting variation: turn the borg2 filter repsonse pot from lp to
> hp for crazy high pass frequency compression!
> 
> i have come across some AMAZING sounds with this patch this evening. i
> could get great bass guitar compression and heavenly acid lines. i
> will try it on drums at a later stage.
> 
> other things to try:
> 1) use a wiard boogie or another type of low pass gate for a different
> sound
> 2) incorpoate some kind of voltage controlled feedback or feedforward
> (would need more mults and mixers)
> 
> final note:
> i first attempted it with a "normal" linear vca instead of the borg 2,
> and the blacet i/o envelope follower instead of the vcs, but it wasn't
> nearly as versatile or nice sounding!
> 
> i can possibly upload some .mp3's if people are interested.
> 
> it ain't gonna beat an 1176, but it sure is fun!
>

Re: while we're talking about crazy patches...

2007-11-20 by mrboningen

thanks tyler!

i've been playing with the patch some more. it can be really smooth
and pumping at the same time, a very nice compression characteristic.
it sounds great on bass guitar, synth bass and high frequency acid
lines (especially when switching the borg2 from low pass gate to high
pass gate mode!) i will try it on drums and vocals etc later.

i think there's something to be said for vactrols. something about the
combination of sound and light that gives a certain magickal vibe. i'm
looking forward to trying the patch with the boogie instead of the
borg2. i'm not sure if they use the same vactrols, if not that would
make for another nice flavour.

like you say, in combination with the serge vcs it is an extremely
versatile patch. i'm thinking of pre-attenuating the signal to the
attack and decay times for finer control/more resolution.

someone on another list also suggested feeding the control/sidechain
envelope follower signal through an eq or another processing module
before sending it to the borg2 for frequency dependent compression,
for example through another low pass filter, so that the compressor
only kicks in on the bass notes. or how about through a phaser or wave
multiplier? the possibilities are endless!

best wishes,

gregg

--- In wiardgroup@yahoogroups.com, Tyler Harwood <stin-g@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> That is super smart and clever! Thanks for sharing that. It's  
> something I never would have thought of - I can't wait to try it! It  
> opens up a whole world of possibilities that an 1176 could never touch.

Re: while we're talking about crazy patches...

2007-11-20 by mrboningen

thanks doc!

i'm thinking about feedback/feedforward topologies now too, i.e.
whether to take the control signal from the input or the output of the
patch. i'm currently taking the signal from before the borg2 which
equals feedforward, but am wondering if things would sound different
if i take it from the output (feedback). i can't really get my head
around it at the moment, but i'm sure it'll all become clear once i'm
sat in front of my modular again!

best wishes,

gregg

--- In wiardgroup@yahoogroups.com, "drmabuce" <drmabuce@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Hi Gregg
> This is a very cool and unusual use for the borg, and it makes a lot
> of sense that it would impart a richer sound than more 'hi-fi'
> full-range VCA. 
>  (there's a very nice article on 'classic'-period compressors here:)
> http://www.cranesong.com/compressorarticle.html
>   Everybody knows how golden-eared, real-deal, engineers treasure
> those some of those old tube compressors, from UA or Fairchild. i'm
> convinced the venerable designers of those gadgets were trying their
> level best to create a full-range VCA but there's only so much you can
>   do with a production budget, pricey ,complex, transformers and
> vacuum tubes...fortunately!...as it turned out!
>   The tube gain-cell element in those designs does not 'open' the gain
> at all frequencies at the same rate across the spectrum. Those curves
> have been analyzed to the gnat's ass by the plug-in developers in the
> frantic effort to emulate them in software and the results are
> maddeningly (for the tweakheads trying to map them anyway), NON-linear
> not only across the frequency spectrum but across the range of input
> levels the device will tolerate... (Good luck with that, folks!)
> 
> My point is that these hallowed compressors act way more like Buchla's
> 'gate' circuits than they do like a nice, wide-spectrum, modern
> gain-cells. It was those selfsame Buchla LP-gates that underpinned
> Grant's thinking when he set out to design the Borg.
> 
>   The modern Joe Meek compressors do this trick well too, but without
> all the fun flexible control 'perversions' to which you allude. i do
> know via the studio grapevine that certain well-known industrial music
> practitioners have been known to use an MS-20's filter (set to NO-res)
> and Env. Follower as a 'compressor' on heavily distorted guitars and
> that they regard this patch as a 'trade secret' (oops!)
> ;'>
> ...yet-again, creating a missing link between the 'colorful'
> compressor and the low-pass gate.
> 
>  Congrats on a particularly flexible range of flavors in this already
> exotic category, and thanks for sharing it.
> 
> -doc

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