Wiardgroup

Hi,

I'm getting ready to build a custom cabinet for a gentleman whose 
modules have not yet arrived, so I've been searching for dimensional 
info and pictures of the Wiard 300 series. Without much luck.

I know the panel height, width and thickness of course, and I recall 
seeing some pictures somewhere showing a DIN? power connector at the 
rear? I will probably need to mold some right angle DIN Power 
connectors so they don't stick out as far to fit the arrangement I have 
in mind for the chest/cabinet. (If my memory of that picture serves me 
correctly.)

So I'm looking for detailed dimensions for both the 300 series and the 
new JAG. With pictures if possible. Not of the module faces, just the 
parts that will need to fit in an enclosed space. 

Can anyone help me?

I especially need to know how much room below the JAG panel is 
required? And how tall the joysticks are when fully uhh, (straight up).

The cabinet is going to be an elegant wooden "Chinese puzzle" affair 
(not just a plain box) with exposed joinery and with some moving parts 
that shift between traveling and playing mode. I hope it will be as 
special as the modules it will contain, integrating into a complete 
instrument as is Grant's expressed Wiard goal. 

So if anyone has or can create at least a direct side view of the 
modules with dimensions, and a picture of the rear I'd be very thankful 
and appreciative!

Oh, and I also need to know about the power supply, its dimensions? If 
that is something which Grant provides with a system. I forgot to ask 
my customer if a power supply was included in his Wiard purchase.

Also, I have a second completely separate request: Does anyone here 
know the manufacturer or source for the Wiard joysticks? I'm putting 
together a vowel/voice PCB and have been trying to find a good source 
of joysticks to go with the PCB's.

Thank you in advance for any help!

Kind regards, Randal

Randal,

I built cases for my Wiard 300 and Frac stuff this past summer.  I have
some of the data you seek.  No pics, though.

> I know the panel height, width and thickness of course, and I recall 
> seeing some pictures somewhere showing a DIN? power connector at the 
> rear? 

Correct.  The power cables Grant will ship are straight DIN, and the other
end is built to plug straight into a Blacet PS500, which is the PS Grant
ships these days.  The power leads themselves are 24" including the
connectors; you probably have about 22" of usable cable.  If you are
building a cabinet that is particularly tall or wide, you may want to
mount multiple PS500s, and/or install a Blacet PSCONN or two to help with
cable management and reach.

The metal case of the 300 series is 9" deep, plus 2" for the stock DIN
power cable.  HOWEVER the metal case only protrudes from an area in
between the LED board and the jack board.  So it starts about 3.5" from
the bottom of the panel, and an inch from the top. 


> I especially need to know how much room below the JAG panel is 
> required? And how tall the joysticks are when fully uhh, (straight up).

The new controller is very very shallow, under an inch deep.  The
joysticks stick up 1.5" from the top.  Similarly, the new dual Boogie and
dual Borg II modular will be shallow, as the PCBs lie flat behind them.

> The cabinet is going to be an elegant wooden "Chinese puzzle" affair 
> (not just a plain box) with exposed joinery and with some moving parts 
> that shift between traveling and playing mode. I hope it will be as 
> special as the modules it will contain, integrating into a complete 
> instrument as is Grant's expressed Wiard goal. 

I'll want to see the result :)  I like my cabinets, but they're a little
too big and heavy.

> Oh, and I also need to know about the power supply, its dimensions? If 
> that is something which Grant provides with a system. 

The PS500 should be included, one for every 6 modules (plus controller).
It is 5-1/8" x 5-1/8" x 2-3/4"

HTH,
Paul

Randal,

I apologize for not chiming i sooner, but I am desperately busy right
now....

"plord" <plord@...> wrote:
>
> Randal,


> The power cables Grant will ship are straight DIN, and the other
> end is built to plug straight into a Blacet PS500, which is the PS Grant
> ships these days.  The power leads themselves are 24" including the
> connectors; you probably have about 22" of usable cable.  If you are
> building a cabinet that is particularly tall or wide, you may want to
> mount multiple PS500s, and/or install a Blacet PSCONN or two to help
with
> cable management and reach.
> 
> The metal case of the 300 series is 9" deep, plus 2" for the stock DIN
> power cable.  HOWEVER the metal case only protrudes from an area in
> between the LED board and the jack board.  So it starts about 3.5" from
> the bottom of the panel, and an inch from the top. 

On my cabinet, I save the additional 2 inches of depth at the back by
having Grant add a 24 inch power cable hardwired to the same pc board
points as the din connector, but fed through to the bottom of the
metal box.  (As Paul suggested, I used the Blacet PSCONNs to buss
power to several modules in the same cabinet).

> 
> > The cabinet is going to be an elegant wooden "Chinese puzzle" affair 
> > (not just a plain box) with exposed joinery and with some moving
parts 
> > that shift between traveling and playing mode. I hope it will be as 
> > special as the modules it will contain, integrating into a complete 
> > instrument as is Grant's expressed Wiard goal. 
> 
> I'll want to see the result :)  I like my cabinets, but they're a little
> too big and heavy.
> 

Although this is irrelevant to your project, one of the reasons that I
created an aluminum case is the weight consideration - my 24 module
case, which is a monocoque construction weighs under 40lbs. with all
modules installed (the modules are about 1 lb. a piece, so the case by
itself only weighs a little over 15 lbs.).  I can actually carry it by
myself.  A metal case adds additional shielding, too.

> > Oh, and I also need to know about the power supply, its
dimensions? If 
> > that is something which Grant provides with a system. 
> 
> The PS500 should be included, one for every 6 modules (plus controller).
> It is 5-1/8" x 5-1/8" x 2-3/4"

You should seriously consider NOT internally mounting your power
supplies - the added heat may create instability issues - mount the
power sources outboard!

gary

Hi Paul!

Thank you for the dimensions and information! I am surprised the 
modules are 9" deep behind the panel. It didn't seem that far in the 
picture I remember seeing. I'll need to reduce the power connector 
sticking out somehow. I've actually wondered about this ever since 
first seeing the pics I can no longer find showing the Wiard 300 
construction. Seems it would make more sense to have the power coming 
out the bottom, near the rear. Perhaps there's no room for a DIN 
there? I remember the Aries had the pcb fingers out the rear to a 
busboard style connector, but that was fairly flat. I'll see if I can 
find or mold some Right angle DIN's. How many pins are these?

That is good news WRT the JAG dimensions, it will allow 
the "butterfly unfolding" I had hoped for!

Thank you again, I'm sure there will be some pics posted once this is 
done.

Kind regards, Randal  

--- In wiardgroup@yahoogroups.com, "plord" <plord@...> wrote:
>
> Randal,
> 
> I built cases for my Wiard 300 and Frac stuff this past summer.  I 
have
> some of the data you seek.  No pics, though.
> 
> > I know the panel height, width and thickness of course, and I 
recall 
> > seeing some pictures somewhere showing a DIN? power connector at 
the 
> > rear? 
> 
> Correct.  The power cables Grant will ship are straight DIN, and 
the other
> end is built to plug straight into a Blacet PS500, which is the PS 
Grant
> ships these days.  The power leads themselves are 24" including the
> connectors; you probably have about 22" of usable cable.  If you are
> building a cabinet that is particularly tall or wide, you may want 
to
> mount multiple PS500s, and/or install a Blacet PSCONN or two to 
help with
> cable management and reach.
> 
> The metal case of the 300 series is 9" deep, plus 2" for the stock 
DIN
> power cable.  HOWEVER the metal case only protrudes from an area in
> between the LED board and the jack board.  So it starts about 3.5" 
from
> the bottom of the panel, and an inch from the top. 
> 
> 
> > I especially need to know how much room below the JAG panel is 
> > required? And how tall the joysticks are when fully uhh, 
(straight up).
> 
> The new controller is very very shallow, under an inch deep.  The
> joysticks stick up 1.5" from the top.  Similarly, the new dual 
Boogie and
> dual Borg II modular will be shallow, as the PCBs lie flat behind 
them.
> 
> > The cabinet is going to be an elegant wooden "Chinese puzzle" 
affair 
> > (not just a plain box) with exposed joinery and with some moving 
parts 
> > that shift between traveling and playing mode. I hope it will be 
as 
> > special as the modules it will contain, integrating into a 
complete 
> > instrument as is Grant's expressed Wiard goal. 
> 
> I'll want to see the result :)  I like my cabinets, but they're a 
little
> too big and heavy.
> 
> > Oh, and I also need to know about the power supply, its 
dimensions? If 
> > that is something which Grant provides with a system. 
> 
> The PS500 should be included, one for every 6 modules (plus 
controller).

> It is 5-1/8" x 5-1/8" x 2-3/4"
> 
> HTH,
> Paul
>

Hi Gary,

Thank you for taking the time to reply. Your additional comments and 
information are very helpful!

Your factory provided power cable solution seems a good choice. I 
wonder if this is an option for my customer? Grant?  

A quick question for everybody, since Gary has said he is busy: Do 
you think a DIN could be mounted at the rear,bottom of the PCB 
enclosure? If the modules are already 9" deep, even a right angle DIN 
like I mentioned in the last message is more additional depth than I 
would want. I'll have to ask my customer how he feels about soldering 
a cable like yours (Gary's) to the existing DIN, or the PCB power 
points. Perhaps the existing wires from DIN to PCB are long enough to 
allow the existing DIN to be moved to the rear of the bottom, where a 
2" protrusion wouldn't matter? That way it could be returned to its 
original placement if the module were sold. (Though I'd for sure 
prefer the bottom facing power connector!) 

The chest weight for my project is not as critical, since i've been 
told it will mostly be used in Studio work; with only occasional 
travels. But the case will still be light for its appearance, which 
will be aiming to "look" heavy, with an anciently Asian or Nordic 
vibe. Both of which cultures are known for their "moving" chests.<G> 

The power supply for design purposes will needs be inside the main 
chest. But as I've done this kind of work before it will have its own 
area where it is thermally isolated and shielded from the main 
panels, so your valid concerns about heat and shielding have been 
addressed.

Thank you again for your time and the voice of your extensive 
experience. And while I'm replying, Thank You for the music as well!

Kind regards, Randal        

In wiardgroup@yahoogroups.com, "Gary Chang" <gchang@...> wrote:
>
> Randal,
> 
> I apologize for not chiming i sooner, but I am desperately busy 
right now....

> On my cabinet, I save the additional 2 inches of depth at the back 
> by having Grant add a 24 inch power cable hardwired to the same pc 
> board points as the din connector, but fed through to the bottom of 
> the metal box.  (As Paul suggested, I used the Blacet PSCONNs to 
> buss power to several modules in the same cabinet).
>
> Although this is irrelevant to your project, one of the reasons 
> that I created an aluminum case is the weight consideration - my 24 
> module case, which is a monocoque construction weighs under 40lbs. 
> with all modules installed (the modules are about 1 lb. a piece, so 
> the case by itself only weighs a little over 15 lbs.).  I can 
> actually carry it by myself.  A metal case adds additional 
> shielding, too.
> 
> You should seriously consider NOT internally mounting your power
> supplies - the added heat may create instability issues - mount the
> power sources outboard!
> 
> gary

"randaleem" <randaleem@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Gary,
> 
> Thank you for taking the time to reply. Your additional comments and 
> information are very helpful!
> 
> Your factory provided power cable solution seems a good choice. I 
> wonder if this is an option for my customer? Grant?  
> 
> A quick question for everybody, since Gary has said he is busy: Do 
> you think a DIN could be mounted at the rear,bottom of the PCB 
> enclosure? If the modules are already 9" deep, even a right angle DIN 
> like I mentioned in the last message is more additional depth than I 
> would want. I'll have to ask my customer how he feels about soldering 
> a cable like yours (Gary's) to the existing DIN, or the PCB power 
> points. Perhaps the existing wires from DIN to PCB are long enough to 
> allow the existing DIN to be moved to the rear of the bottom, where a 
> 2" protrusion wouldn't matter? That way it could be returned to its 
> original placement if the module were sold. (Though I'd for sure 
> prefer the bottom facing power connector!) 

The power cable on my modules are simple wires that are terminated in
the 4 pin molex connector that is on the other end of the stock Wiard
power cable (which is DIN to molex).  Don't waste your time drilling
and mounting a new din connector.
> 
> The chest weight for my project is not as critical, since i've been 
> told it will mostly be used in Studio work; with only occasional 
> travels. But the case will still be light for its appearance, which 
> will be aiming to "look" heavy, with an anciently Asian or Nordic 
> vibe. Both of which cultures are known for their "moving" chests.<G> 
> 
Even travelling "occasionally" will create great demands on your
client's Wiard System - after all of the great expense and effort to
create such a device, it would be awful to forever be looking at the
gash on the cabinet made on one of the system's "occasional" trips.

My system cases, by sheer dumb luck fit into two of Pelican's Largest
cases.  They are made of extruded high impact composite materials,
they have wheels and are waterproof.  (Ironically, the large unit's
case was designed to transport 12 M16 rifles!)

> The power supply for design purposes will needs be inside the main 
> chest. But as I've done this kind of work before it will have its own 
> area where it is thermally isolated and shielded from the main 
> panels, so your valid concerns about heat and shielding have been 
> addressed.

I understand your design aesthetic about the internal PSU.  The only
issue that I tackled after getting my system's modules together was
messing with the system's power supply sources and each module group's
requirements.  I found that it was more stable to put all of the VCOs
on a separate power supply than the rest of the system, and to employ
3 instead of 2 power supplies to power the system.

If you are using Blacet PSUs, They are only 50mA supplies, so it is a
possibilty that you may need more than one to power a dense system....

> 
> Thank you again for your time and the voice of your extensive 
> experience. And while I'm replying, Thank You for the music as well!
> 
> Kind regards, Randal        
> 
> In wiardgroup@yahoogroups.com, "Gary Chang" <gchang@> wrote:
> >
> > Randal,
> > 
> > I apologize for not chiming i sooner, but I am desperately busy 
> right now....
> 
> > On my cabinet, I save the additional 2 inches of depth at the back 
> > by having Grant add a 24 inch power cable hardwired to the same pc 
> > board points as the din connector, but fed through to the bottom of 
> > the metal box.  (As Paul suggested, I used the Blacet PSCONNs to 
> > buss power to several modules in the same cabinet).
> >
> > Although this is irrelevant to your project, one of the reasons 
> > that I created an aluminum case is the weight consideration - my 24 
> > module case, which is a monocoque construction weighs under 40lbs. 
> > with all modules installed (the modules are about 1 lb. a piece, so 
> > the case by itself only weighs a little over 15 lbs.).  I can 
> > actually carry it by myself.  A metal case adds additional 
> > shielding, too.
> > 
> > You should seriously consider NOT internally mounting your power
> > supplies - the added heat may create instability issues - mount the
> > power sources outboard!
> > 
> > gary
>

>  You should seriously consider NOT internally mounting your power
>  supplies - the added heat may create instability issues - mount the
>  power sources outboard!

For my modular (unfortunitely not Wiard), I used army suplus ammo cases 
like the one in the middle of this pic for power supplies:

http://www.sprucemtsurplus.com/AmmoStorage/ammoboxes-lg.jpg

A MOTM power supply panel (http://www.synthtech.com/motm900.html) fit 
almost exactly inside the box, leaving a small space just the right size 
for the connector cable to fit inside when traveling. I added a 4-pin 
screw-on connector on the panel, and a matching connector on the 
appropriate position on the module case and made a custom connector 
cable to hook the supply and cabinet together.

I'm currently "without modular", but when/if I do it again, won't 
hesitate to use the same configuration for the power supplies. The army 
surplus cases are almost tank-proof!

Hi Gary,

Nice of you to take the time for more comments. Thank you! 

Inline reply:  

--- In wiardgroup@yahoogroups.com, "Gary Chang" <gchang@...> wrote:
> >"randaleem" <randaleem@> wrote:
> > Do you think a DIN could be mounted at the rear,bottom of the PCB 
> > enclosure?<s> Perhaps the existing wires from DIN to PCB are long 
> > enough to allow the existing DIN to be moved to the rear of the 
> > bottom, where a  2" protrusion wouldn't matter? That way it could 
> > be returned to its original placement if the module were sold. 
> > (Though I'd for sure prefer the bottom facing power connector!) 
 
>The power cable on my modules are simple wires that are terminated in
>the 4 pin molex connector that is on the other end of the stock Wiard
>power cable (which is DIN to molex).  Don't waste your time drilling
>and mounting a new din connector.

I understand. Okay, I'll come clean. Those comments were really 
intended for Grant. In hopes he might make the wires to the existing 
DIN long enough for the alternate down-exiting position. And perhaps 
begin punching a hole there so an owner could choose rear or bottom 
power connection. This rear facing 2" protrustion on an already deep 
module is IMO a major glitch in an otherwise well-considered physical 
design. A 5/8 plug for the unused hole is pennies, and dust exclusion 
and backward compatibility is maintained.  

> > The chest weight for my project is not as critical, since i've 
> > been told it will mostly be used in Studio work; with only 
> > occasional travels. But the case will still be light for its 
> > appearance, which will be aiming to "look" heavy, with an 
> > anciently Asian or Nordic vibe. Both of which cultures are known 
> > for their "moving" chests.<G> 
 
> Even travelling "occasionally" will create great demands on your
> client's Wiard System - after all of the great expense and effort to
> create such a device, it would be awful to forever be looking at the
> gash on the cabinet made on one of the system's "occasional" trips.

> <s>my system cases fit into two large Pelican<S>

Certainly the chest could be inserted in an additional 
protective "road case" of some sort. At roughly 30Wx16Hx12D there are 
many in which it would fit. But the whole demeanor of the project 
leans towards that "gash" you describe being seen as an asset. 

The chest is based on Chinese/Japanese Tansu and Northern European 
Master craftsman tool chests. With some middle earth and sci-fi 
elements thrown in for good measure. These sturdy classic utility 
chests were made to endure bumps and scrapes while looking 
interesting, but somewhat plain outside; they become gems when opened 
up. It will of course be up to the customer to what degree he wishes 
to protect the exterior when traveling, and I will make the exterior 
a thing of beauty worth preserving. But the chest itself is up to 
being road-worthy, and the hope is that it will wear any such marks 
of its travels with pride, like a scarred warrior of Agincourt, or a 
master of Grendel. 

In the same way that Grant says "the synth is behind the panel", the 
chest is but a covering -tho' a very cool one, I hope! for the real 
gem inside. The chest is meant to appear as a timeless relic of 
somewhat indeterminate origin, containing its technological "secret". 
Viking meets Samarai meets Hobbit meets Stargate.    

>I understand your design aesthetic about the internal PSU.  The only
>issue that I tackled after getting my system's modules together was
>messing with the system's power supply sources and each module 
>group's requirements.  I found that it was more stable to put all of 
>the VCOs on a separate power supply than the rest of the system, and 
>to employ 3 instead of 2 power supplies to power the system.

Good advice WRT VCO's, Thank you. Our planned system is a fair bit 
smaller than yours! 
 
Kind regards, Randal

Hi Les
thanx for the tip.
i've 'redeployed' ammo boxes in peacetime applications myself and i
concur they're damn-near tankproof. But that also renders them fairly
tool-proof too ....so-
Comparing notes...
How did you deal with heat transfer?
With the lids locked-down, these things are nearly airtight. Did you
cut ventilation ports? Leave the lids off?
also...
Did you thermally couple the PS's heatsinks to the walls of the ammo box?

Most connector diameters are beyond the range of hardware-store drill
bits, and they don't like chewing through steel, anyway
....How did you cut your large diameter mounting holes? a die cutter,
perhaps? 
enquiring minds want to know!
;'>

thx,
-doc



--- In wiardgroup@yahoogroups.com, Les Mizzell <lesmizz@...> wrote:
>
> 
> >  You should seriously consider NOT internally mounting your power
> >  supplies - the added heat may create instability issues - mount the
> >  power sources outboard!
> 
> For my modular (unfortunitely not Wiard), I used army suplus ammo cases 
> like the one in the middle of this pic for power supplies:
> 
> http://www.sprucemtsurplus.com/AmmoStorage/ammoboxes-lg.jpg
> 
> A MOTM power supply panel (http://www.synthtech.com/motm900.html) fit 
> almost exactly inside the box, leaving a small space just the right
size 

> for the connector cable to fit inside when traveling. I added a 4-pin 
> screw-on connector on the panel, and a matching connector on the 
> appropriate position on the module case and made a custom connector 
> cable to hook the supply and cabinet together.
> 
> I'm currently "without modular", but when/if I do it again, won't 
> hesitate to use the same configuration for the power supplies. The army 
> surplus cases are almost tank-proof!
>

Hi Randall,

> > > (Though I'd for sure prefer the bottom facing power connector!) 

I think it would be unfair of me to ask my other customers to carry the cost of this 
modification.

The power connectors are located so the power supply can be placed in the space behind the 
patch panels. A downward facing connector would prevent this use and INCREASE the size of 
the cabinet.

Best Regards,

Grant Richter
Wiard Synthesizer

yes - a typo - thanks for the correction!

gary



kwote uno" <kwoter@...> wrote:
>
> blacet psu's are 500ma just for clarification. i'm sure it was just
a simple
> typo.
> 
> On Dec 5, 2007 12:23 PM, Gary Chang <gchang@...> wrote:
> 
> >    "randaleem" <randaleem@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Gary,
> > >
> > > Thank you for taking the time to reply. Your additional comments and
> > > information are very helpful!
> > >
> > > Your factory provided power cable solution seems a good choice. I
> > > wonder if this is an option for my customer? Grant?
> > >
> > > A quick question for everybody, since Gary has said he is busy: Do
> > > you think a DIN could be mounted at the rear,bottom of the PCB
> > > enclosure? If the modules are already 9" deep, even a right
angle DIN
> > > like I mentioned in the last message is more additional depth than I
> > > would want. I'll have to ask my customer how he feels about
soldering
> > > a cable like yours (Gary's) to the existing DIN, or the PCB power
> > > points. Perhaps the existing wires from DIN to PCB are long
enough to
> > > allow the existing DIN to be moved to the rear of the bottom,
where a
> > > 2" protrusion wouldn't matter? That way it could be returned to its
> > > original placement if the module were sold. (Though I'd for sure
> > > prefer the bottom facing power connector!)
> >
> > The power cable on my modules are simple wires that are terminated in
> > the 4 pin molex connector that is on the other end of the stock Wiard
> > power cable (which is DIN to molex). Don't waste your time drilling
> > and mounting a new din connector.
> > >
> > > The chest weight for my project is not as critical, since i've been
> > > told it will mostly be used in Studio work; with only occasional
> > > travels. But the case will still be light for its appearance, which
> > > will be aiming to "look" heavy, with an anciently Asian or Nordic
> > > vibe. Both of which cultures are known for their "moving" chests.<G>
> > >
> > Even travelling "occasionally" will create great demands on your
> > client's Wiard System - after all of the great expense and effort to
> > create such a device, it would be awful to forever be looking at the
> > gash on the cabinet made on one of the system's "occasional" trips.
> >
> > My system cases, by sheer dumb luck fit into two of Pelican's Largest
> > cases. They are made of extruded high impact composite materials,
> > they have wheels and are waterproof. (Ironically, the large unit's
> > case was designed to transport 12 M16 rifles!)
> >
> > > The power supply for design purposes will needs be inside the main
> > > chest. But as I've done this kind of work before it will have
its own
> > > area where it is thermally isolated and shielded from the main
> > > panels, so your valid concerns about heat and shielding have been
> > > addressed.
> >
> > I understand your design aesthetic about the internal PSU. The only
> > issue that I tackled after getting my system's modules together was
> > messing with the system's power supply sources and each module group's
> > requirements. I found that it was more stable to put all of the VCOs
> > on a separate power supply than the rest of the system, and to employ
> > 3 instead of 2 power supplies to power the system.
> >
> > If you are using Blacet PSUs, They are only 50mA supplies, so it is a
> > possibilty that you may need more than one to power a dense system....
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Thank you again for your time and the voice of your extensive
> > > experience. And while I'm replying, Thank You for the music as well!
> > >
> > > Kind regards, Randal
> > >
> > > In wiardgroup@yahoogroups.com <wiardgroup%40yahoogroups.com>, "Gary
> > Chang" <gchang@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Randal,
> > > >
> > > > I apologize for not chiming i sooner, but I am desperately busy
> > > right now....
> > >
> > > > On my cabinet, I save the additional 2 inches of depth at the back
> > > > by having Grant add a 24 inch power cable hardwired to the same pc
> > > > board points as the din connector, but fed through to the
bottom of
> > > > the metal box. (As Paul suggested, I used the Blacet PSCONNs to
> > > > buss power to several modules in the same cabinet).
> > > >
> > > > Although this is irrelevant to your project, one of the reasons
> > > > that I created an aluminum case is the weight consideration -
my 24
> > > > module case, which is a monocoque construction weighs under 40lbs.
> > > > with all modules installed (the modules are about 1 lb. a
piece, so
> > > > the case by itself only weighs a little over 15 lbs.). I can
> > > > actually carry it by myself. A metal case adds additional
> > > > shielding, too.
> > > >
> > > > You should seriously consider NOT internally mounting your power
> > > > supplies - the added heat may create instability issues -
mount the

> > > > power sources outboard!
> > > >
> > > > gary
> > >
> >
> >   
> >
>

Hi doc,

I'm not Les, but I have a suggestion for one of your questions. In 
the electrical department at HomeDepot and other hardware stores you 
will find step drills. These Christmas-tree-shaped bits will easily 
drill holes up to 1-3/8 in ammo box steel, synth panel or housing. 

Two sizes of bits needed to get to that size hole. The larger one is 
not as commonly useful, going from 7/8 to 1-3/8 by 1/16". A typical 
smaller step drill bit goes from 3/16" to 7/8" in 1/16" steps; 
another goes from 1/8 to 3/4 by 16ths. Either of these latter two is 
a good candidate for SDIY use. About $20-25. It is very easy to use 
the next step to deburr all holes drilled  except the largest, where 
there is no larger next step to use!

Drill the small hole 3/16 or 1/8 using a regular drill bit (a screw 
machine length 135° split point will work best) and then open it up 
with the step drill. Works REALLY well, and the holes stay concentric 
with your pilot; something which doesn't always happen using 
successive twist drill bits.   

Kind regards Randal

--- In wiardgroup@yahoogroups.com, "drmabuce" <drmabuce@...> wrote:

>Most connector diameters are beyond the range of hardware-store drill
>bits, and they don't like chewing through steel, anyway
>....How did you cut your large diameter mounting holes? a die cutter,
>perhaps? 
>enquiring minds want to know!
> ;'>
> 
> thx,
> -doc
>

Hi Grant,

Thank you for taking the time to reply, and the explanation of your 
choice! 

I still haven't seen any pics with dimensions, so I thought with the 
given 9 inches total depth, there would still be room between the 
patch panel and a down-facing connector for a 5-1/4" sq. power 
supply. Apparently that's not the case.  

It should be simple enough to perform a mod like Gary described, so 
that's probably the better choice at this point. Thank you again for 
the reply.

Kind regards, Randal

--- In wiardgroup@yahoogroups.com, "Grant Richter" <grichter@...> 
wrote:
>
> Hi Randall,
> 
> > > > (Though I'd for sure prefer the bottom facing power 
connector!) 
> 
> I think it would be unfair of me to ask my other customers to carry 
the cost of this 
> modification.
> 
> The power connectors are located so the power supply can be placed 
in the space behind the 
> patch panels. A downward facing connector would prevent this use 
and INCREASE the size of 

> the cabinet.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Grant Richter
> Wiard Synthesizer
>

Doc,

actually (and not to be contrary, randal), I use a Greenlee die cutter
- it places less stress on the overall structure (in this case, the
corrugated metal box).  Was it a 15/16 inch that is the standard xlr
size?  don't make me go find my dies, now!!!

gary




"randaleem" <randaleem@...> wrote:

>
> Hi doc,
> 
> I'm not Les, but I have a suggestion for one of your questions. In 
> the electrical department at HomeDepot and other hardware stores you 
> will find step drills. These Christmas-tree-shaped bits will easily 
> drill holes up to 1-3/8 in ammo box steel, synth panel or housing. 
> 
> Two sizes of bits needed to get to that size hole. The larger one is 
> not as commonly useful, going from 7/8 to 1-3/8 by 1/16". A typical 
> smaller step drill bit goes from 3/16" to 7/8" in 1/16" steps; 
> another goes from 1/8 to 3/4 by 16ths. Either of these latter two is 
> a good candidate for SDIY use. About $20-25. It is very easy to use 
> the next step to deburr all holes drilled  except the largest, where 
> there is no larger next step to use!
> 
> Drill the small hole 3/16 or 1/8 using a regular drill bit (a screw 
> machine length 135° split point will work best) and then open it up 
> with the step drill. Works REALLY well, and the holes stay concentric 
> with your pilot; something which doesn't always happen using 
> successive twist drill bits.   
> 
> Kind regards Randal
> 
> --- In wiardgroup@yahoogroups.com, "drmabuce" <drmabuce@> wrote:
> >Most connector diameters are beyond the range of hardware-store drill
> >bits, and they don't like chewing through steel, anyway
> >....How did you cut your large diameter mounting holes? a die cutter,
> >perhaps? 
> >enquiring minds want to know!
> > ;'>
> > 
> > thx,
> > -doc
> >
>

Thank you, gentlemen
Golly my cup runneth over with tips from real-deal metal guys!
  50% of the time i work with plastic because i have a source for a 
lot of nice scrap material*. When i do work with metal (45%) i stick 
with aluminum because i can damn-near poke through it with a sharp 
fingernail. When i have to use steel (for strength or shielding) i 
lean on a friend who is a retired aerospace machinist with a 
basement full of scintilating tools. i just hate admitting to him 
that i need help with a simple round hole. When i 'recycled' some 
ammo boxes i was astonished (and so was my poor beleaguered Black & 
Decker) at how tough they were. Bravo Military-Industrial Complex!

and thank you all for the tips
-Doc

* i have a friend who builds mock-ups for Boeing with transparent 
sections. She uses a formulation of plexiglass that is highly 
resistant building-up static

don't let DIY die!
We need resistors we can touch
SAVE THE THROUGH-HOLE COMPONENTS
JOIN PDIPRESCUE!
(ok.... i'm being a smartass...there is no PDIPRESCUE....but there 
SHOULD be)


--- In wiardgroup@yahoogroups.com, "Gary Chang" <gchang@...> wrote:
>
> Doc,
> 
> actually (and not to be contrary, randal), I use a Greenlee die 
cutter
> - it places less stress on the overall structure (in this case, the
> corrugated metal box).  Was it a 15/16 inch that is the standard 
xlr
> size?  don't make me go find my dies, now!!!
> 
> gary
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "randaleem" <randaleem@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi doc,
> > 
> > I'm not Les, but I have a suggestion for one of your questions. 
In 
> > the electrical department at HomeDepot and other hardware stores 
you 
> > will find step drills. These Christmas-tree-shaped bits will 
easily 
> > drill holes up to 1-3/8 in ammo box steel, synth panel or 
housing. 
> > 
> > Two sizes of bits needed to get to that size hole. The larger 
one is 
> > not as commonly useful, going from 7/8 to 1-3/8 by 1/16". A 
typical 
> > smaller step drill bit goes from 3/16" to 7/8" in 1/16" steps; 
> > another goes from 1/8 to 3/4 by 16ths. Either of these latter 
two is 
> > a good candidate for SDIY use. About $20-25. It is very easy to 
use 
> > the next step to deburr all holes drilled  except the largest, 
where 
> > there is no larger next step to use!
> > 
> > Drill the small hole 3/16 or 1/8 using a regular drill bit (a 
screw 
> > machine length 135° split point will work best) and then open it 
up 
> > with the step drill. Works REALLY well, and the holes stay 
concentric 
> > with your pilot; something which doesn't always happen using 
> > successive twist drill bits.   
> > 
> > Kind regards Randal
> > 
> > --- In wiardgroup@yahoogroups.com, "drmabuce" <drmabuce@> wrote:
> > >Most connector diameters are beyond the range of hardware-store 
drill
> > >bits, and they don't like chewing through steel, anyway
> > >....How did you cut your large diameter mounting holes? a die 
cutter,

> > >perhaps? 
> > >enquiring minds want to know!
> > > ;'>
> > > 
> > > thx,
> > > -doc
> > >
> >
>

> How did you deal with ....

Darn I wish I had a picture! OK - describing the best I can...

I had an extra MOTM power supply panel sitting around.

( http://www.synthtech.com/testcart/images/m900image.jpg )

This panel just fit into the ammo case, with maybe 1/4 clearance on each 
side, and about an extra 2 inches on one end. I made some small brackets 
to hold the panel in place, and used a small piece of wood at the end 
with the extra 2 inches under the panel as a separator to create a small 
storage compartment at that end.

I used a hole cutter and mounted my 4 pin screw-on connector on the panel.

When in use, I kept the ammo case lid off. The 1/4 space on each side 
seemed to provide adequate ventilation for heat dissipation. No thermal 
coupling anywhere. When not in use, the extra 2 inches on the end 
provided a great storage space for the connector cable I made.

If you look at the synth (formerly mine):
http://www.cyndustries.com/gallerypix/gall_les.jpg

The module case itself (bottom two rows) is a custom made "Anvil" type 
case made by Thoroughbred Cases in Canada.  It has lids for the back and 
front and once closed up, was completely 'roadie proof', which is just a 
step above 'tank proof'. In the pic you can see a cable just behind the 
Doepfer ribbon controller box on the lower left of the pic - this is the 
power cable coming from the ammo boxes mounted underneath the case. The 
case power connectors are located on the left side of the case, just 
under the handles.

Worked great.

> I still haven't seen any pics with dimensions, so I thought with the 
> given 9 inches total depth

The modules are 10.5" tall and 2.83" wide (2.83 = 17/6) The depth is 9.5" (9.4" box depth 
and 0.1" faceplate) inches. Mounting holes are 1/8" in diameter (#4 screw) and located 0.25" 
(horz. and vert.) from each corner. 

A very simple solution is to remove the plastic and metal shell from around the DIN 
connector. The actual DIN insert is heatshrink insulated on all three terminals. It is only about 
1/2" deep. With a wood panel behind the modules, they won't need the protection of the 
shell and the wood will not short out the wires.

This gives a depth of 10 inches without changing anything significant, and it can be reversed 
easily.

Otherwise cut the DIN plugs off and solder the wires directly to the PC pads.

The power wires are color coded RED = +15VDC GREEN = Ground BLACK = -15VDC

This color code is used both inside and outside the enclosure.

Thank you Grant!

Kind regards, Randal

--- In wiardgroup@yahoogroups.com, "Grant Richter" <grichter@...> wrote:
> The modules are 10.5" tall and 2.83" wide (2.83 = 17/6) The depth is
9.5" (9.4" box depth 
> and 0.1" faceplate) inches. Mounting holes are 1/8" in diameter (#4
screw) and located 0.25" 
> (horz. and vert.) from each corner. 
<snip>