Emu XL-7 & MP-7 User's Group

Hello list,

I just talked to Ruud van der Matte who works for Creative/E-mu in 
The Netherlands. I called him about the weak audio coming from the 
S/PDIF output compared to the signal coming form the analog main 
output.

The manual sais this is an exact copy from the main output. Well my 
ears and a level meter say it's almost half the Db's in volume. So, 
it's a problem with the S/PDIF implementation the E-mu.

Ruud just talled me that he spoke to David Andersson from Creative/E-
mu in Dublin, and he talled him that it's a known issue BUT the 
wan't do anything to fix it!

I just called Creative/E-mu to speek to David Andersson myself, but 
I could not reach them. I got the voicemail of Monica and asked if 
the could call me back on this issue. 

Besides that Ruud van der Matte tolled me that the problem with a 
disturbed S/PDIF output (grounding) was also a known issue. The last 
machines that were released, have a workaround implemented. 

There were small copper plates placed between the top and bottom 
cover, so both parts make better contact. That solved the problem on 
the disturbed signal but not the weakness of the audio.

I thought you should all know this.

Thanks for the info!

rEalm





Mike-E <d_jumpmaster@...>
02/19/2004 05:40 AM
Please respond to xl7

 
        To:     xl7@yahoogroups.com
        cc: 

        Subject:        [xl7] Weak S/PDIF output, known but non supported issue????


Hello list,

I just talked to Ruud van der Matte who works for Creative/E-mu in 
The Netherlands. I called him about the weak audio coming from the 
S/PDIF output compared to the signal coming form the analog main 
output.

The manual sais this is an exact copy from the main output. Well my 
ears and a level meter say it's almost half the Db's in volume. So, 
it's a problem with the S/PDIF implementation the E-mu.

Ruud just talled me that he spoke to David Andersson from Creative/E-
mu in Dublin, and he talled him that it's a known issue BUT the 
wan't do anything to fix it!

I just called Creative/E-mu to speek to David Andersson myself, but 
I could not reach them. I got the voicemail of Monica and asked if 
the could call me back on this issue. 

Besides that Ruud van der Matte tolled me that the problem with a 
disturbed S/PDIF output (grounding) was also a known issue. The last 
machines that were released, have a workaround implemented. 

There were small copper plates placed between the top and bottom 
cover, so both parts make better contact. That solved the problem on 
the disturbed signal but not the weakness of the audio.

I thought you should all know this.





 
Yahoo! Groups Links



 






The information transmitted is intended only for the person(s)or entity 
to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or legally 
privileged material. Delivery of this message to any person other than 
the intended recipient(s) is not intended in any way to waive privilege 
or confidentiality. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other 
use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by 
entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you 
receive this in error, please contact the sender and delete the 
material from any computer.

For Translation:

http://www.baxter.com/email_disclaimer


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

AAArrrrgggghhhh!!!! 

I have tried to reach them by phone since I've posted the message. 
Several times a day. Everytime I get the voicemail of Monica. 

Damn Creative!


--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, erik_magrini@B... wrote:
> Thanks for the info!
> 
> rEalm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mike-E <d_jumpmaster@y...>
> 02/19/2004 05:40 AM
> Please respond to xl7
> 
>  
>         To:     xl7@yahoogroups.com
>         cc: 
>         Subject:        [xl7] Weak S/PDIF output, known but non 
supported issue????
> 
> 
> Hello list,
> 
> I just talked to Ruud van der Matte who works for Creative/E-mu in 
> The Netherlands. I called him about the weak audio coming from the 
> S/PDIF output compared to the signal coming form the analog main 
> output.
> 
> The manual sais this is an exact copy from the main output. Well my 
> ears and a level meter say it's almost half the Db's in volume. So, 
> it's a problem with the S/PDIF implementation the E-mu.
> 
> Ruud just talled me that he spoke to David Andersson from 
Creative/E-
> mu in Dublin, and he talled him that it's a known issue BUT the 
> wan't do anything to fix it!
> 
> I just called Creative/E-mu to speek to David Andersson myself, but 
> I could not reach them. I got the voicemail of Monica and asked if 
> the could call me back on this issue. 
> 
> Besides that Ruud van der Matte tolled me that the problem with a 
> disturbed S/PDIF output (grounding) was also a known issue. The 
last 
> machines that were released, have a workaround implemented. 
> 
> There were small copper plates placed between the top and bottom 
> cover, so both parts make better contact. That solved the problem 
on 
> the disturbed signal but not the weakness of the audio.
> 
> I thought you should all know this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The information transmitted is intended only for the person(s)or 
entity 
> to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or 
legally 
> privileged material. Delivery of this message to any person other 
than 
> the intended recipient(s) is not intended in any way to waive 
privilege 
> or confidentiality. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or 
other 
> use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information 
by 

> entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you 
> receive this in error, please contact the sender and delete the 
> material from any computer.
> 
> For Translation:
> 
> http://www.baxter.com/email_disclaimer
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

This subject has been discussed quite a bit - and those who know
(Aaron et al) say the S/PDIF signal is 20 bits. A medium-level 20-bit
signal is much better than a medium-level 16 bit signal, meaning that
within the S/PDIF signal as it exists right now there is most likely
13-16 bits of actual data, which is consistant with (and above many)
CD's. (this is my guesstimate re: the XL7, not a statement from E-mu).
The extra headroom in the Xl7, Proteus etc is to allow for the extreme
bumps in volume that the filters (resonance) can cause. That makes
sense and I think you will see that the filters are capable of extreme
boosts in volume.

But my recommendation is: if the S/PDIF sig is bothersome - use the
analog outs. Good D/A's on all the E-mu stuff... and hopefully you
have a good A/D in your setup (if you don't, you should.). You can 
also just record the digital sig as-is and (as Aaron mentioned) -
Normalize, but I assume that you know that.

Bottom line: don't let this interupt your creative flow - get on with
the music!

happy toning,

Ed


--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "Mike-E" <d_jumpmaster@y...> wrote:
> AAArrrrgggghhhh!!!! 
> 
> I have tried to reach them by phone since I've posted the message. 
> Several times a day. Everytime I get the voicemail of Monica. 
> 
> Damn Creative!
> 
> 
> --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, erik_magrini@B... wrote:
> > Thanks for the info!
> > 
> > rEalm
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Mike-E <d_jumpmaster@y...>
> > 02/19/2004 05:40 AM
> > Please respond to xl7
> > 
> >  
> >         To:     xl7@yahoogroups.com
> >         cc: 
> >         Subject:        [xl7] Weak S/PDIF output, known but non 
> supported issue????
> > 
> > 
> > Hello list,
> > 
> > I just talked to Ruud van der Matte who works for Creative/E-mu
in 
> > The Netherlands. I called him about the weak audio coming from
the 
> > S/PDIF output compared to the signal coming form the analog main 
> > output.
> > 
> > The manual sais this is an exact copy from the main output. Well
my 
> > ears and a level meter say it's almost half the Db's in volume.
So, 
> > it's a problem with the S/PDIF implementation the E-mu.
> > 
> > Ruud just talled me that he spoke to David Andersson from 
> Creative/E-
> > mu in Dublin, and he talled him that it's a known issue BUT the 
> > wan't do anything to fix it!
> > 
> > I just called Creative/E-mu to speek to David Andersson myself,
but 
> > I could not reach them. I got the voicemail of Monica and asked
if 
> > the could call me back on this issue. 
> > 
> > Besides that Ruud van der Matte tolled me that the problem with a 
> > disturbed S/PDIF output (grounding) was also a known issue. The 
> last 
> > machines that were released, have a workaround implemented. 
> > 
> > There were small copper plates placed between the top and bottom 
> > cover, so both parts make better contact. That solved the problem 
> on 
> > the disturbed signal but not the weakness of the audio.
> > 
> > I thought you should all know this.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > The information transmitted is intended only for the person(s)or 
> entity 
> > to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or 
> legally 
> > privileged material. Delivery of this message to any person other 
> than 
> > the intended recipient(s) is not intended in any way to waive 
> privilege 
> > or confidentiality. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or 
> other 
> > use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this
information 

> by 
> > entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you 
> > receive this in error, please contact the sender and delete the 
> > material from any computer.
> > 
> > For Translation:
> > 
> > http://www.baxter.com/email_disclaimer
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I know I can nomralize. I know the digital signal is better and has 
headroom. But I also know that E-mu knows it's a "bug" in the xx-7.

As I mi the S/PDIF with other signals (analog, VSTi, analog out of 
the XL etc.), I have to turn all other signals down, because of the 
weak signal of the E-mu... and that's not the way it should be.

It's a nice explanation... but it's not everyone's reality.



--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "vibesart" <edmann@p...> wrote:
> This subject has been discussed quite a bit - and those who know
> (Aaron et al) say the S/PDIF signal is 20 bits. A medium-level 20-
bit
> signal is much better than a medium-level 16 bit signal, meaning 
that
> within the S/PDIF signal as it exists right now there is most likely
> 13-16 bits of actual data, which is consistant with (and above many)
> CD's. (this is my guesstimate re: the XL7, not a statement from E-
mu).
> The extra headroom in the Xl7, Proteus etc is to allow for the 
extreme
> bumps in volume that the filters (resonance) can cause. That makes
> sense and I think you will see that the filters are capable of 
extreme
> boosts in volume.
> 
> But my recommendation is: if the S/PDIF sig is bothersome - use the
> analog outs. Good D/A's on all the E-mu stuff... and hopefully you
> have a good A/D in your setup (if you don't, you should.). You can 
> also just record the digital sig as-is and (as Aaron mentioned) -
> Normalize, but I assume that you know that.
> 
> Bottom line: don't let this interupt your creative flow - get on 
with
> the music!
> 
> happy toning,
> 
> Ed
> 
> 
> --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "Mike-E" <d_jumpmaster@y...> wrote:
> > AAArrrrgggghhhh!!!! 
> > 
> > I have tried to reach them by phone since I've posted the 
message. 
> > Several times a day. Everytime I get the voicemail of Monica. 
> > 
> > Damn Creative!
> > 
> > 
> > --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, erik_magrini@B... wrote:
> > > Thanks for the info!
> > > 
> > > rEalm
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Mike-E <d_jumpmaster@y...>
> > > 02/19/2004 05:40 AM
> > > Please respond to xl7
> > > 
> > >  
> > >         To:     xl7@yahoogroups.com
> > >         cc: 
> > >         Subject:        [xl7] Weak S/PDIF output, known but non 
> > supported issue????
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Hello list,
> > > 
> > > I just talked to Ruud van der Matte who works for Creative/E-mu
> in 
> > > The Netherlands. I called him about the weak audio coming from
> the 
> > > S/PDIF output compared to the signal coming form the analog 
main 
> > > output.
> > > 
> > > The manual sais this is an exact copy from the main output. Well
> my 
> > > ears and a level meter say it's almost half the Db's in volume.
> So, 
> > > it's a problem with the S/PDIF implementation the E-mu.
> > > 
> > > Ruud just talled me that he spoke to David Andersson from 
> > Creative/E-
> > > mu in Dublin, and he talled him that it's a known issue BUT the 
> > > wan't do anything to fix it!
> > > 
> > > I just called Creative/E-mu to speek to David Andersson myself,
> but 
> > > I could not reach them. I got the voicemail of Monica and asked
> if 
> > > the could call me back on this issue. 
> > > 
> > > Besides that Ruud van der Matte tolled me that the problem with 
a 
> > > disturbed S/PDIF output (grounding) was also a known issue. The 
> > last 
> > > machines that were released, have a workaround implemented. 
> > > 
> > > There were small copper plates placed between the top and 
bottom 
> > > cover, so both parts make better contact. That solved the 
problem 
> > on 
> > > the disturbed signal but not the weakness of the audio.
> > > 
> > > I thought you should all know this.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >  
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >  
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > The information transmitted is intended only for the person(s)
or 
> > entity 
> > > to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or 
> > legally 
> > > privileged material. Delivery of this message to any person 
other 
> > than 
> > > the intended recipient(s) is not intended in any way to waive 
> > privilege 
> > > or confidentiality. Any review, retransmission, dissemination 
or 
> > other 
> > > use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this
> information 
> > by 
> > > entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If 
you 

> > > receive this in error, please contact the sender and delete the 
> > > material from any computer.
> > > 
> > > For Translation:
> > > 
> > > http://www.baxter.com/email_disclaimer
> > > 
> > > 
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

MikeE -

 -  I am attempting to make your reality more pleasant by offering
some information and the logical workaround - 

I have never heard this referred to as a "bug" - just a neccessary
headroom threshold-preset (meaning that you are right: Emu does know
about it as it was part of the design) to allow for the many
variations of filter resonance, given that the Command Stations
(unlike the the E4) do not have a variable Headroom setting. This has
been a known quantity since the introduction of the Proteus 2000.

but knock yourself out, and keep us posted...maybe I am wrong.
 
perhaps this will help:

*Since you are running the XL7 in digitally - you could boost the
digital signal in the DAW software. 

*You could monitor analog while recording digital.

good luck MikeE - 





--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "Mike-E" <d_jumpmaster@y...> wrote:

> I know I can nomralize. I know the digital signal is better and has 
> headroom. But I also know that E-mu knows it's a "bug" in the xx-7.
> 
> As I mi the S/PDIF with other signals (analog, VSTi, analog out of 
> the XL etc.), I have to turn all other signals down, because of the 
> weak signal of the E-mu... and that's not the way it should be.
> 
> It's a nice explanation... but it's not everyone's reality.
> 
> 
> 
> --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "vibesart" <edmann@p...> wrote:
> > This subject has been discussed quite a bit - and those who know
> > (Aaron et al) say the S/PDIF signal is 20 bits. A medium-level 20-
> bit
> > signal is much better than a medium-level 16 bit signal, meaning 
> that
> > within the S/PDIF signal as it exists right now there is most likely
> > 13-16 bits of actual data, which is consistant with (and above many)
> > CD's. (this is my guesstimate re: the XL7, not a statement from E-
> mu).
> > The extra headroom in the Xl7, Proteus etc is to allow for the 
> extreme
> > bumps in volume that the filters (resonance) can cause. That makes
> > sense and I think you will see that the filters are capable of 
> extreme
> > boosts in volume.
> > 
> > But my recommendation is: if the S/PDIF sig is bothersome - use the
> > analog outs. Good D/A's on all the E-mu stuff... and hopefully you
> > have a good A/D in your setup (if you don't, you should.). You can 
> > also just record the digital sig as-is and (as Aaron mentioned) -
> > Normalize, but I assume that you know that.
> > 
> > Bottom line: don't let this interupt your creative flow - get on 
> with
> > the music!
> > 
> > happy toning,
> > 
> > Ed
> > 
> > 
> > --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "Mike-E" <d_jumpmaster@y...> wrote:
> > > AAArrrrgggghhhh!!!! 
> > > 
> > > I have tried to reach them by phone since I've posted the 
> message. 
> > > Several times a day. Everytime I get the voicemail of Monica. 
> > > 
> > > Damn Creative!
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, erik_magrini@B... wrote:
> > > > Thanks for the info!
> > > > 
> > > > rEalm
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Mike-E <d_jumpmaster@y...>
> > > > 02/19/2004 05:40 AM
> > > > Please respond to xl7
> > > > 
> > > >  
> > > >         To:     xl7@yahoogroups.com
> > > >         cc: 
> > > >         Subject:        [xl7] Weak S/PDIF output, known but non 
> > > supported issue????
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Hello list,
> > > > 
> > > > I just talked to Ruud van der Matte who works for Creative/E-mu
> > in 
> > > > The Netherlands. I called him about the weak audio coming from
> > the 
> > > > S/PDIF output compared to the signal coming form the analog 
> main 
> > > > output.
> > > > 
> > > > The manual sais this is an exact copy from the main output. Well
> > my 
> > > > ears and a level meter say it's almost half the Db's in volume.
> > So, 
> > > > it's a problem with the S/PDIF implementation the E-mu.
> > > > 
> > > > Ruud just talled me that he spoke to David Andersson from 
> > > Creative/E-
> > > > mu in Dublin, and he talled him that it's a known issue BUT the 
> > > > wan't do anything to fix it!
> > > > 
> > > > I just called Creative/E-mu to speek to David Andersson myself,
> > but 
> > > > I could not reach them. I got the voicemail of Monica and asked
> > if 
> > > > the could call me back on this issue. 
> > > > 
> > > > Besides that Ruud van der Matte tolled me that the problem with 
> a 
> > > > disturbed S/PDIF output (grounding) was also a known issue. The 
> > > last 
> > > > machines that were released, have a workaround implemented. 
> > > > 
> > > > There were small copper plates placed between the top and 
> bottom 
> > > > cover, so both parts make better contact. That solved the 
> problem 
> > > on 
> > > > the disturbed signal but not the weakness of the audio.
> > > > 
> > > > I thought you should all know this.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > >  
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > >  
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > The information transmitted is intended only for the person(s)
> or 
> > > entity 
> > > > to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or 
> > > legally 
> > > > privileged material. Delivery of this message to any person 
> other 
> > > than 
> > > > the intended recipient(s) is not intended in any way to waive 
> > > privilege 
> > > > or confidentiality. Any review, retransmission, dissemination 
> or 
> > > other 
> > > > use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this
> > information 
> > > by 
> > > > entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If 
> you 
> > > > receive this in error, please contact the sender and delete the 
> > > > material from any computer.
> > > > 
> > > > For Translation:
> > > > 
> > > > http://www.baxter.com/email_disclaimer
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]